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The Marvel Things That Aren't "Marvel" Things

RIPPA

By RIPPA
in "COMIC BOOK" MOVIES & TV

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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Posted

I don't need the Black Panther to turn into a veiled sermon on the evils of colonialist expansionism and how Africa still suffers culturally from centuries of social and economic exploitation.  I already know that it is horrible situation because I am an informed person and I stay informed.  You can use the whole old world colonialist thought aspect as one of the reasons why we should hate Klaw, but don't make that the focus of the film.

 

The Black Panther needs to be about how a well educated, selfless, and honorable African man of regal bearing and genius intellect punched a guy made of solidified sound right in the face and saved the world.  T'Challa is a king in every sense of the word and he deserves to be treated like one.  He is one of the best of us, just like Superman.

 

Yeah, that bolded part might be the problem moreso than anything else. It's a really good and different idea......and that's why it probably won't happen. I could actually see Ava wanted to push that part and Marvel telling her no on that. Not in a racist way, but the fact that people may not react the way people usually respond to Marvel movies. So by kinda leaving race out, you basically could get whitewashed, Disney Africa where it's basically Johannesburg like in 70% of Africa's representation in mainstream films. So I'm not expected it to go way into the darkness but way too far the other way.

 

 

Craig, you have some terrible opinions about pop culture.

And I've noticed you have a terrible habit of saying contrarian "lol u suck" bullshit short posts like that without further elaborating on why you disagree. I think Craig had a point, the F4 aren't exactly the cool kids of the Marvel universe in the first place.

 

I don't need the Black Panther to turn into a veiled sermon on the evils of colonialist expansionism and how Africa still suffers culturally from centuries of social and economic exploitation.  I already know that it is horrible situation because I am an informed person and I stay informed.  You can use the whole old world colonialist thought aspect as one of the reasons why we should hate Klaw, but don't make that the focus of the film.

Yeah, you're informed. I'm semi-informed; I've read a Chinua Achebe novel and Heart of Darkness and listened to a whole buncha NPR, and I still couldn't give you a complete coherent thesis on all the things that European imperialism did to fuck up the entire continent of Africa

 

 

I will say this. If Scorsese and Harry Belafonte actually moved forward on that Ghost of King Leopold project, white people would need to stay in the house locked down like The Purge for about three weeks. I've seen the real pictures. You don't want ANY part of that. No sir.

 

And if anyone wants to hear a big heapin' helping of Josh Trank's opinions right from the horse's mouth, he did a stupidly long interview with Kevin Smith on his "Fatman on Batman" podcast, which had to be split into FOUR parts; the first three are available right now. I haven't listened because, frankly, I don't care.

 

You didn't miss anything. I made it through part 1, where Kevin Smith basically verbally fellates him for being an affluent Jewish kid with a successful award winning dad. It was REALLY boring. I'm not sure how he's making him sound like underdog filmmaker like he wants to, but I guess he wants to make the effort.

 

I just wonder if Kevin has the balls to put up part 4 now. He could have put all of them up relatively quickly instead of this countdown thing to the movie release. He should have anticipated it being a flop.

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EVA

EVA

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Craig, you have some terrible opinions about pop culture.

And I've noticed you have a terrible habit of saying contrarian "lol u suck" bullshit short posts like that without further elaborating on why you disagree. I think Craig had a point, the F4 aren't exactly the cool kids of the Marvel universe in the first place.

Yeah, I think I'd like to see some evidence that the FF have any relevance to today's pop culture, let alone enough to warrant multiple attempts at film adaptations. It's clear that people think they're lame. Even the current base of comic book buyers don't seem to care about them. Otherwise, their book wouldn't have been canceled.

Ultimately, they're just too specific to the time when they were created, and as the decades have gone by, they've become less and less relevant. Just because something was popular once, that doesn't mean it's destined to stay that way.

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The Z

The Z

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Craig, you have some terrible opinions about pop culture.

And I've noticed you have a terrible habit of saying contrarian "lol u suck" bullshit short posts like that without further elaborating on why you disagree. I think Craig had a point, the F4 aren't exactly the cool kids of the Marvel universe in the first place.

Yeah, I think I'd like to see some evidence that the FF have any relevance to today's pop culture, let alone enough to warrant multiple attempts at film adaptations. It's clear that people think they're lame. Even the current base of comic book buyers don't seem to care about them. Otherwise, their book wouldn't have been canceled.

Ultimately, they're just too specific to the time when they were created, and as the decades have gone by, they've become less and less relevant. Just because something was popular once, that doesn't mean it's destined to stay that way.

 

 

That's insane.

It was just a couple years ago, when everyone praised Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four as one of the best comic books on the stands.

The comic book being cancelled has nothing to do with it not selling well and everything to do with Ike Perlmutter being an old grumpy douchebag.

I just pulled up two random sales charts form this year, March and April 2015:

 

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-03.html

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-04.html

 

Here's a list of Marvel comic books with worse sales than Fantastic Four: Ms Marvel, X-Men, Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher and on and on and on.

 

Edit: I just realized that 644 and 645 were the last two issues of the series, so before you bring up the point that people just bought those for the novelty of being the last issues of the series, you can actually go back a year ago and it doesn't change much. Yeah, it's not one of their absolute top sellers, but it's clearly nowhere near the bottom either.

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odessasteps

odessasteps

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I dont think the FF is necessarily stuck in the Silver Age Cold War era, any more than iron Man was. That was updated from Vietnam to the Middle East. Unless you are having the FF fight the Red Ghost, they dont need to be stuck fighting villains from that era.

In 2015, they should be fighting giant monsters or exploring the Negative Zone.

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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TheVileOne, what's the rip-off gag?

 

Military gives them that new base.  They are joking about a name.  Thing is all like, "this is fantastic."  Reed Richards gets a light bulb, "What did you say?!  That's it's we're the F---" Smash cut to credits.

 

 

Isn't that close to, "How about Su---" from Man of Steel? I don't remember the Avengers gag.

 

 

It's different.

 

 

 

TheVileOne, what's the rip-off gag?

 

Military gives them that new base.  They are joking about a name.  Thing is all like, "this is fantastic."  Reed Richards gets a light bulb, "What did you say?!  That's it's we're the F---" Smash cut to credits.

To be fair, it wasn't a good gag in AGE OF ULTRON either. Too cute by more than half.
 

 

 

It personally annoyed me too...but for Fant4stic to have the audacity to do it as well just enraged me.

 

You didn't miss anything. I made it through part 1, where Kevin Smith basically verbally fellates him for being an affluent Jewish kid with a successful award winning dad. It was REALLY boring. I'm not sure how he's making him sound like underdog filmmaker like he wants to, but I guess he wants to make the effort.

 

I just wonder if Kevin has the balls to put up part 4 now. He could have put all of them up relatively quickly instead of this countdown thing to the movie release. He should have anticipated it being a flop.

 

 

Perhaps as a filmmaker who has had to face his own demons of the Hollywood system, Smith really feels sorry and empathetic for Trank's plight.  Believe it or not, there was a time where it almost seemed like Smith was a Hollywood/comedy god and was going to take over the place.

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Brian Fowler

Brian Fowler

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Just read this tidbit about Fantastic Four that everyone will surely love:

""It's clobbering time" is something Ben Grimm's abusive brother used to say before he slapped him about."

Wow.....

That's not true. It could've been true at some point, but it's not in the movie.
Not for nothing, but I just read IGN's review it also says this.

It's not as bad as it sounds, but it's definitely in the movie, in the second scene.

Abusive might be over the top. He smacks his little brother upside the head after saying it, then their mom smacks him the same way.

This was bad. Just so fucking bad. They got Doom wrong again, in a totally different way but just as wrong. Aggressively mediocre in every single phase. It is blessedly short though.

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Spritenaut 32

Spritenaut 32

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Went to see FF on the spur of the moment this afternoon.  Took off the afternoon to hang out with the wife and, after a nice lunch.... she decided to go shopping with a college friend she hadn't seen in years.  So I decided to see if FF was really that bad. 

 

It is.  It's actually worse than I expected.  Just a really wretched misfire.  Nothing is fun about this movie.  The cinematography is really drab, the characters mostly lack depth, Doom.... of fucking hell... Doom! 

 

I've never seen Chronicle, and now I don't feel like I need to.  Between this mess and being fired from Star Wars, Trank may never be heard from again,  I didn't feel like he did anything well here.  Some of the dialogue in the film is laughable.  The characters are paper-thin.  He seems not to get the Fantastic Four dynamic in any way, shape, or form.  Action sequences are average, etc.  Retcons don't make sense (Johnny works on a sooper secret science project because... his dad says he is a genius?  But the character is written to be the same anti-intellectual playboy Johnny usually is????).

 

Trank did succeed in making the solemn, gritty, superhero neo-horror flick he apparently wanted to, so.... congrats?  Maybe DC will hire him to make a Batman reboot even less fun. 

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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It's not as bad as it sounds, but it's definitely in the movie, in the second scene.

Abusive might be over the top. He smacks his little brother upside the head after saying it, then their mom smacks him the same way.

This was bad. Just so fucking bad. They got Doom wrong again, in a totally different way but just as wrong. Aggressively mediocre in every single phase. It is blessedly short though.

 

 

What we saw hardly seems like abuse.  His brother is about to beat him up and his mom quickly stops it and protects him.  I mean...isn't this like every day for little brothers?

 

 

Johnny in this film seems to have about as much acumen and interest in science as Dr. Christmas Jones.  

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Brian Fowler

Brian Fowler

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Pretty much. Life I said, abusive is probably over the top, but the line/scene exists.

I *think* the idea was that Johnny was a genius mechanically, not the actual science behind why it worked, just at building what Reed/Vic/Sue designed. But it wasn't clear and I damn sure wouldn't bet money on that being what they meant.

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Big Fresh

Big Fresh

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You guys are making me wanna see this movie a lot more than I would if everyone said it just ok.

 

The Fantastic 4 just aren'y my thing. Never really dug them in the comics either. I actually like them better indivdually than together. Thing in New Avengers was fine. Mr. Fantastic in the Illuminati was cool. Human Torch in Ultimate X-Men was alright. Maybe it's because once they get together, a lot of their stories tend to be cosmic stuff, and that's not my bag.

 

But a Dr. Doom movie I'd be all about.

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APO

APO

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Not really sure the "they aren't cool" thing is valid when Marvel's going to be trotting out Dr. Strange, Carol Danvers, and the Inhumans as big parts of the MCU(and really, you could probably throw BP in here too).

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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Marvel's Ant-Man is about to cross over $300 million worldwide and will probably make at least $160 million domestically.  That in itself is like...miraculous.  Even Ant-Man didn't flop.

 

In other words, Marvel can probably afford a couple bad movies or flops here or there.

 

Even Pixar was slumming it for a couple of years until Inside Out.

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Big Fresh

Big Fresh

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Not really sure the "they aren't cool" thing is valid when Marvel's going to be trotting out Dr. Strange, Carol Danvers, and the Inhumans as big parts of the MCU(and really, you could probably throw BP in here too).

How dare you.

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ArtVanderlay

ArtVanderlay

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Over in the Blockbuster Pool thread, Brian Fowler wrote:

 

 

 

He's already been basically removed from this movie before is was completed and fired from a Star Wars film. He's got nothing left to lose, and if he truly has faith in the version he shot, trying to drum up enough interest/support to get it released might be his best option to salvage his career. Assuming his vision gets significantly more love than the theatrical, of course.

 

Now I'm imagning tons of idiot parents buying the "Uncensored Director's Cut" thinking it'll be another kiddie film, and subjecting their five-year olds to a Cronenberg-esque Body Horror film.

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APO

APO

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Marvel's Ant-Man is about to cross over $300 million worldwide and will probably make at least $160 million domestically. That in itself is like...miraculous. Even Ant-Man didn't flop.

In other words, Marvel can probably afford a couple bad movies or flops here or there.

Even Pixar was slumming it for a couple of years until Inside Out.

Okay?

Wasn't really what I was getting at.

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