Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Tennis


GuerrillaMonsoon

Recommended Posts

42 minutes ago, Dewar said:

yet he has people who know nothing about tennis raking him over the coals.

He has everyone including Billie Jean King and others who have been around tennis for decades raking him over the coals. It's not just the "haha casuals!" crowd. That's why this is a discussion now because if people in tennis had come to his aid it would have changed the narrative. A lot of people feel Serena was in the right and he overstepped his authority. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I mean, Andy Roddick called it the worst trying reffing he's ever seen. It's not like people who know tennis are uniformity behind him, the general consensus (but certainly not unanimous) view from actual pro tennis players and legends is that the first and third violations were both really bad calls.

I mean, clearly you can disagree, but it's certainly not just people who don't know tennis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RolandTHTG said:

Aren't the majority of those takes talking about how stupid the rule is to disallow coaching at the grand slams but it's fine at every other major tournament?

He enforced the rules that were in place, as shitty as they are.

In part, but they are also talking about how it's almost never called even at slams and that significantly more blatant examples were ignored by umpires, even during this tournament. I go back to my earlier comparison, that's it would be like NBA refs decided to suddenly start calling traveling by the strict letter of the law in game 7 of the NBA finals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Yeah, I mean, Andy Roddick called it the worst trying reffing he's ever seen. It's not like people who know tennis are uniformity behind him, the general consensus (but certainly not unanimous) view from actual pro tennis players and legends is that the first and third violations were both really bad calls.

I mean, clearly you can disagree, but it's certainly not just people who don't know tennis.

Roddick also admits that he's openly biased in his commentary towards childhood friend, Serena Williams in the tweet after too, and also said the same thing after the Krygios incident earlier in the tournament. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

Roddick also admits that he's openly biased in his commentary towards childhood friend, Serena Williams in the tweet after too, and also said the same thing after the Krygios incident earlier in the tournament. 

Bias or no, the comment Is still coming from a man who knows the rules and not some Twitter schlump spouting off hot air.

When In Doubt, Let Them Play is fucking Referee 101.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You also have former officials, perhaps understandably, supporting the umpire.

You also have Martina writing this in the NYT

Quote

Serena Williams has part of it right. There is a huge double standard for women when it comes to how bad behavior is punished — and not just in tennis.

But in her protests against an umpire during the United States Open final on Saturday, she also got part of it wrong. I don’t believe it’s a good idea to apply a standard of “If men can get away with it, women should be able to, too.” Rather, I think the question we have to ask ourselves is this: What is the right way to behave to honor our sport and to respect our opponents?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That op-ed totally misses the point.  This Richard Ings fellow is an idiot.

Serena didn't want clearance to cheat; she wanted the chair umpire to admit his fault which he didn't.

Unless Serena had the eyes of a falcon, it would've been impossible for her to see Mouratoglou's hand signals.  Ramos made a bad judgment call and unfortunately the USTA rules bound him to the bad judgment call.  That's the only drawback to irrevocable warnings.

I'm not 100% sold that misogyny was Ramos's pure motive, but the ease in which he reeled off those warnings give me the impression that he relishes the use of his authority a bit too much and likes to make examples out of top tier tennis players if he feels they are in violation of the rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

And let's take another moment for her: in only one set in the entire tournament did she lose more than 4 games. All but one match she won in straight sets. She didn't just win the US Open, she destroyed it.

If the Ha, Casuals! crowd is doing anything to infuriate me, it is giving the impression that Ramos's bad calls stole the championship from Serena.

Osaka had Serena dead to rights in the first set and Naomi's was her title to win.  Ramos's bullshit casts cloud over a victory that was going to happen anyway.

Ramos owes Naomi Osaka an apology more than he owes Serena one, IMO.  Unrattled Serena with her point and game given back to her would've still lost that second set.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could present an argument that Serena was losing, knew she was going to lose and created the larger problem to deflect from her losing. Thats certainly a well used tactic in sports, especially from people like Belichek and Mourinho. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You could present an argument that Serena was losing, knew she was going to lose and created the larger problem to deflect from her losing. Thats certainly a well used tactic in sports, especially from people like Belichek and Mourinho. 

But she didn't deflect when she lost in the Wimbledon final this year to Kerber although you can tell from Serena's body language and facial expressions that she hates losing.

And this is Serena's second loss to Osaka, not her first.  Naomi beat her in Miami, albeit that Serena was trying to return to form after giving birth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that's also worth pointing out: Serena had three straight awful sets in Grand Slam finals before the second set meltdown.

Which you would chalk up to maybe not being 100% after giving birth, except, you know, she's gotten to two Grand Slam finals

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Unless Serena had the eyes of a falcon, it would've been impossible for her to see Mouratoglou's hand signals.  Ramos made a bad judgment call and unfortunately the USTA rules bound him to the bad judgment call.  That's the only drawback to irrevocable warnings.

Then she apparently has the eyes of a falcon - she admitted seeing his hand gestures and claimed they were "just a thumbs-up" which, of course, is a blatant lie.

Also, the rule doesn't care if the player sees the coaching or not.  She *DID* see it but the rule doesn't care.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

Yeah, I mean, Andy Roddick called it the worst trying reffing he's ever seen. It's not like people who know tennis are uniformity behind him, the general consensus (but certainly not unanimous) view from actual pro tennis players and legends is that the first and third violations were both really bad calls.

I mean, clearly you can disagree, but it's certainly not just people who don't know tennis.

Those players and legends are biased.  They are defending another player, plain and simple.  They don't like the rule so that, combined with their bias toward another player, is leading them to defend her.  I also think they are focused only on the word she said (thief) and not the fact that it was actually her second tirade at him, both of which were pretty extended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The only thing she said that was even the slightest bit harsh was that he was a thief,  I mean people are different so maybe he felt some sort of way about it but to me that's light. It was the championship final I think maybe he could have warned her about the game penalty that would be incoming if she didn't stop. 

She browbeat they guy, demanded he apologize over and over while on the crowd mic, and told him he'd never ref another match of hers.  She publicly berated an official.  I'm just saying it's a little more than calling him a thief.

10 hours ago, odessasteps said:

In other sports,  questioning the integrity of an official will often get someone tossed. 

It was disappointing to see the ITF and WTA not back up an offical. 

The NFL fines players and coaches who say anything negative about officiating.

7 hours ago, J.T. said:

I do not feel badly for the official.  It is fucking stupid to over-legislate any championship match..  Naomi Osaka didn't even get to claim a win due to her own skill because Carlos Ramos stole that from her as well as a point and a game from Serena.  He could've diffused the situation, but chose not to.

 

How could he have "diffused" it?  By giving in and apologizing, as she kept demanding he do?  She's a player, he's an official.  In what world does a ref publicly supplicate to appease an angry player?  Her behavior was astonishingly arrogant and downright abusive.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The most amazing thing out of this tournament other than Osaka's brilliant performance at age 20 is Serena at age 36 reaching yet another Grand Slam Final and doing so not too far removed from giving birth. She might retire with close to 30 grand slams who knows.  Shit is crazy. 

This is also another shame about it. I think Osaka is being lauded a lot after the time we had to sort of let everyone get their thoughts out of the way. She destroyed that tournament.

It's also another shame about Serena. I am a HUGE Serena fan. I have only one other friend who follows tennis to any degree. But my wife and a bunch of our friends (of both genders) go out of their way to watch Serena with us. I am an absolute gigantic fan. She friggin' won a major while pregnant. She then made two finals after a rough pregnancy. 

Like... she's maybe the best women's athlete in history. Maybe Jackie Joyner is ahead of her? (And that's a maybe.) She should be absolutely lauded for being 36 and making two finals and everyone should be rooting for her to grab the record from Margaret Court (who has become a villain of sorts after her portrayal in the Billie Jean King movie). Like... the battle should be about Serena being a strong woman of color who sticks up for everyone takes the record from a strict conservative who went out of her way to harm Billie Jean King's career due to her sexuality.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are facts:

Serena is the best tennis player male or female who has ever lived. 

She does not take losing well. 

She's 36 and has lost maybe half a step, but she's on the downside of her career, that's indisputable.  She's still quite capable of adding more Grand Slam titles to her legacy.

Osaka didn't just have her number this tournament, she had everyone's number.

Carlos Ramos has a history of being overly officious but Serena knew that going in. If you know it's a bear, you don't stick your hand in the cage.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So some officials are very pissed off about nobody coming to Ramos defense and are planning to possibly boycott future Serena matches.  I was just watching PTI.  Kornheiser said that Serena was partially at fault and was berating the official but he also said that Ramos should know better that it's a major tournament,  a grand slam final and should have used better judgment before deducting a full game.  He also said these officials would be easily replaceable.  Wilbon said Serena has been wrong in the past but not this time.  Wilbon said nobody should stick by the official,  he said that Ramos should be suspended.  

Some hot takes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, OSJ said:

These are facts:

Serena is the best tennis player male or female who has ever lived. 

I'll give you most successful but "best"? That's objectively false. There are TONS of men who would beat her. Easily. 

She's an amazingly great tennis player. But she ain't as good as Federer, Sampras, Nadal or many others. She's just not. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...