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Raw 1-5-15


MGFanJay
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See, I think Bray is fine. I like his gimmick and think he's good enough in the ring. He is someone who needs to be a cult leader though, and he's leading no one at the moment. That said, Ambrose was not the guy to use to elevate Bray. There's a bunch of dudes on the roster who are basically jobbers and Bray could have mowed through all of them, feuding with one of them along the way. Bray moving up the ladder means that Ambrose now moves down the ladder and Ambrose isn't bulletproof like Daniel Bryan, Jericho or Cena. I just don't get why they're choosing to protect Bray and sacrifice Ambrose to him when Ambrose is the guy that needs all of the protecting. When Ambrose lost that feud to Rollins in the Cell when Bray returned, I was ok with it because I figured that somewhere down the line, Ambrose would get his revenge. Ambrose now has subsequent feuds where he has lost and it wasn't even close to 50/50 booking. The best you could say about Ambrose in each is that he got away with some hijinks here and there, but that doesn't matter when your shoulders are constantly down for the three count. So now Ambrose needs to get revenge against Bray AND Rollins. Wonderful.

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I don't get calling Bray/Dean b-card stuff. They headlined a ppv and Raw with it. It was clearly meant to be a big deal, and a lot of effort was put into it, and it largely didn't deliver. Giving it a pass by saying it wasn't meant to be the top angle is just a cop out.

 

Also Rollins has ate a ton of pins the last month or so. I think both Ziggler and Ryback have pinned him along with the endless wins Cena has against Rollins. If they truly want to get faces over by jobbing so the fans will rally behind them then Reigns must be the least pushed guy on the roster.

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And it's been long established that TttT doesn't count since the faces always go over.

 

Because it refutes your argument that Ambrose has done nothing but lose matches?

 

The feud ending this way was fine - Ambrose can recover easily. Bryan recovered from a similar loss rather well this time last year. The trouble is the rumor that Wyatt is being built up to be fed to Undertaker.

 

This show sucked, the main event angle was awful for the second week in a row, but there wasn't anything wrong with putting Wyatt over Ambrose to end the feud in and of itself.

 

ETA: Okay, now I understand Gregg's frustration, because they gave Ambrose a win that none of you were paying attention to and are now saying "doesn't count." If you want to be dissatisfied, WWE will always deliver in some way.

 

 

It doesn't count. Yes, Ambrose pinned Bray on a show that a small fraction of the audience watched, that all of the babyfaces ALWAYS go over on. It'd be like patting the Harlem Globetrotters on the back for beating the Generals. 

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What does Bray beating Justin Gabriel up for a few months do for him? Or Dean stomping Titus O'Neil?

 

This feud had what was essentially the Tully/Magnum role. (And I'm not saying it was Tully/Magnum.) But it's the b-feud between two dudes who want to beat the hell out of each other. Should NWA have gone with Tully vs. Randy Mulkey and Magnum vs. One Half Of The New Breed instead?

Good wrestlers need to feud with good wrestlers. A never ending string of jobber matches is a total snoooooooooze.

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I absolutely wish there were a more exciting story at the top of the WWE right now.  No doubt about it.  Evil authority is played out and boring.  However, I am surprised at the reaction to last night's show specifically.   In my opinion, the story has progressed rather naturally for about two months now.   Last night's show I thought did the best to advance the story of any show in a while.  We got the twist of Rollins being added to the Royal Rumble main event and the firing of Ziggler, Ryback and Rowan, which at least adds intrigue as to how they will come back.  It has pretty much been a disinteresting story, in my opinion, but I thought it has all at least made sense.  I'm surprised anybody could have gone into last night expecting anything different/better.

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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?
 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

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I don't get calling Bray/Dean b-card stuff. They headlined a ppv and Raw with it. It was clearly meant to be a big deal, and a lot of effort was put into it, and it largely didn't deliver. Giving it a pass by saying it wasn't meant to be the top angle is just a cop out.

 

Also Rollins has ate a ton of pins the last month or so. I think both Ziggler and Ryback have pinned him along with the endless wins Cena has against Rollins. If they truly want to get faces over by jobbing so the fans will rally behind them then Reigns must be the least pushed guy on the roster.

 

Again, the issue itself is that the feud was so one sided. It wasn't b-card stuff and it's great for Bray, but no one gives a shit about Bray at this point and Ambrose was the one fans were in love with. When Ambrose lost the feud against Rollins, you'd figure that he'd bounce back in his next feud, but he then lost the feud to Bray. Ambrose previously looked like the man and now he looks like he doesn't belong in the main event spot since he's lost in the main event consistently and doesn't win when it matters. Bray should be protected too, but not at Ambrose's expense. It's just totally counter-productive.

 

Of course, I'm sure this is the WWE Standardized Test for guys they're going to push. Always best for business to make guys you want to put at the top of the card always lose at that position first.

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I think at this point a lot of the arguments people are making account to minutia. Everything is flat and has been since at least TLC but it really started post-summerslam.

They are not putting on historically bad shows or anything they've just completely lost the interest of the audience.

I could really use some Ambrose fan fiction right about now.

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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?

 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

You're aware that constantly Spin Doctoring for WWE on this message board is *not* going to get you a job with WWE PR, no matter how much you want it, or want to put this on your CV, right?

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Cesaro is another thing that's fucked up. So in no particular order, these are some weird WWE fuck ups:

 

  • Cesaro starts getting buried after Vince's weird millenials/brass ring shit

           Cesaro is also now in a new tag team with Tyson Kidd. Whether it sticks or not, we'll see. But he's not buried. He has TV time and chances.

 

           Dudes in New Day re-debut and are immediately lost in the shuffle, right back to where they were before

          

What's so wrong about that? Were you thinking Big E/Kofi/Xavier Woods in a Gospel gimmick was the new Shield? That was never the intent. It's there to put three guys who didn't really have any characters or direction together to have some mid-card tag team matches. Not everyone can be -- or should be -- in the main event. You need guys just to have feuds with other guys. You need tag teams and six-man matches. New Day will probably put Cesaro/Kidd over in hopes to see if that has any legs. Or they'll go over Cesaro/Kidd and then feud with a stronger heel tag team. There's nothing wrong with that. The gimmick isn't the best, but it's there just to give people something identifiable and maybe sell some T-shirts or whatever.

  • Christian's retirement gets mentioned in an offhand comment by Heyman

And what's wrong with that? Christian hasn't been on TV in... How long? Was he in the last Elimination Chamber? Does he really deserve an elaborate retirement ceremony? Instead, he got addressed as retired by another performer. That explains where he's been and what he's up to very efficiently. Do you need more than that?

  • Brock hasn't done shit, which is understandable, but Rollins has been a ghat to Brock and Brock has yet to smack him down
  • The constant, unending build to yet another Brock/Cena match, which helps no one except for Cena. Another example of name stars not helping build future stars

Except Seth Rollins is now in that match AND also has the MITB plot device. Young star who has a bunch of chances to steal the title. I'd say Seth got helped out huge last night. And the week before, when he forced Cena to kowtow to his wishes.

 

And if you're in NXT, why come up? I'm sure Sami, Owens, Itami, Balor, Enzo/Big Cass, Neville, Bailey and others can't wait to come up so that they immediately get buried after having promos dedicated to announcing their debut. Shit, Charlotte got the spotlight put on her away from an NXT ring just to lose to fucking Nattie. I like Nattie, but that's just fucking strange.

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I don't get calling Bray/Dean b-card stuff. They headlined a ppv and Raw with it. It was clearly meant to be a big deal, and a lot of effort was put into it, and it largely didn't deliver. Giving it a pass by saying it wasn't meant to be the top angle is just a cop out.

 

Also Rollins has ate a ton of pins the last month or so. I think both Ziggler and Ryback have pinned him along with the endless wins Cena has against Rollins. If they truly want to get faces over by jobbing so the fans will rally behind them then Reigns must be the least pushed guy on the roster.

 

Again, the issue itself is that the feud was so one sided. It wasn't b-card stuff and it's great for Bray, but no one gives a shit about Bray at this point and Ambrose was the one fans were in love with. When Ambrose lost the feud against Rollins, you'd figure that he'd bounce back in his next feud, but he then lost the feud to Bray. Ambrose previously looked like the man and now he looks like he doesn't belong in the main event spot since he's lost in the main event consistently and doesn't win when it matters. Bray should be protected too, but not at Ambrose's expense. It's just totally counter-productive.

 

Of course, I'm sure this is the WWE Standardized Test for guys they're going to push. Always best for business to make guys you want to put at the top of the card always lose at that position first.

 

 

The 14,000 cellphone lights that show up when Bray gets to the ring shows Bray's pretty over and people care about him.

So then, who should Bray have gone over?

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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?

 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

You're aware that constantly Spin Doctoring for WWE on this message board is *not* going to get you a job with WWE PR, no matter how much you want it, or want to put this on your CV, right?

 

 

You're totally right -- God forbid someone should have a difference of opinion from everyone else. I'll just shut up and let everyone just say the same exact thing over and over again. Message boards are way more fun in that way.

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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?

 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

You're aware that constantly Spin Doctoring for WWE on this message board is *not* going to get you a job with WWE PR, no matter how much you want it, or want to put this on your CV, right?

 

 

You're totally right -- God forbid someone should have a difference of opinion from everyone else. I'll just shut up and let everyone just say the same exact thing over and over again. Message boards are way more fun in that way.

 

Its not a difference of opinion, its that you're so hell bent on defending everything as awesome and anyone being critical as IWC AWFUL!!!!  that you close your self off from listening to the other side.  You do the same damn thing you bitch at everyone else for doing.  

 

You can have an opinion, you just will never admit that its wrong.  This show is bad, the angles are bad, ratings are falling, Network subs are falling, crowds are dead, not "heels won aw shucks" reaction, but DEAD.  

 

You present all your opinions not like someone trying to show a different side, but like you're actually getting paid to drum up intrest in product that's largely regared as pure drivel right now.  

 

 

I see what you say, but I don't agree with it.  And continual goalpost moving doesn't help you.

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It's sad that you're oblivious to how you're coming across that it isn't ok for the majority to think the current state of WWE, last night included, is a complete bunch of sad bullshit, especially when it's on the heels of solid NXT shows and the solutions to the myriad of problems is completely obvious. All you're doing is wanting to refute much of what we're saying, challenging many of us to point out why things are fucked up, which we've been doing, so you can have the opportunity to show us the error of our ways or preach the gospel, ignoring the many other valid points that you don't even attempt to acknowledge because doing so would be detrimental to whatever it is you're trying to argue. It's fine you like this product, don't be surprised though, when many raise a People's Eyebrow to the thought that everything is fine and dandy.

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The reaction to me reeks of last year when a lot of people were up in arms about Daniel Bryan's booking or etc. Not that I want to go down that road -- we've all said our piece on that, so let's not say it again -- but a lot of people are being really reactionary to a lot.

 

YOU CAN'T BRING UP THE DANIEL BRYAN STORYLINE ending without going down the road.  Nice try, Greg.  We're on the road now.

 

 Now you're going get "CM Punk was set to wrestle Triple-H at Mania with Batista Vs. Orton as main and Bryan in limbo" counterstrike.

 

This "Gregg Vs. People Who Are Down on Raw" thing is funny because it use to be the "Gregg/People who were high on Raw vs. everyone else" a year ago.

Edited by _MJ_
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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?

 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

You're aware that constantly Spin Doctoring for WWE on this message board is *not* going to get you a job with WWE PR, no matter how much you want it, or want to put this on your CV, right?

 

 

You're totally right -- God forbid someone should have a difference of opinion from everyone else. I'll just shut up and let everyone just say the same exact thing over and over again. Message boards are way more fun in that way.

 

Its not a difference of opinion, its that you're so hell bent on defending everything as awesome and anyone being critical as IWC AWFUL!!!!  that you close your self off from listening to the other side.  You do the same damn thing you bitch at everyone else for doing.  

 

You can have an opinion, you just will never admit that its wrong.  This show is bad, the angles are bad, ratings are falling, Network subs are falling, crowds are dead, not "heels won aw shucks" reaction, but DEAD.  

 

You present all your opinions not like someone trying to show a different side, but like you're actually getting paid to drum up intrest in product that's largely regared as pure drivel right now.  

 

 

I see what you say, but I don't agree with it.  And continual goalpost moving doesn't help you.

 

 

So, essentially, I'm just like every other person on a wrestling message board but I just have a different opinion than everyone else?

Got it.

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Okay, so then, is the consensus that Bray/Ambrose wasn't 50/50 booking so we can just throw that argument some on here were making out the window?

 

This feud ended cleanly. Bray beat Dean.

 

Ergo, anyone complaining about that result is just pissed off their dude didn't win and the guy they don't like as much did. And that shouldn't be a criticism of the "direction of the company" -- it's just that a guy you like didn't win. That's going to happen.

You're aware that constantly Spin Doctoring for WWE on this message board is *not* going to get you a job with WWE PR, no matter how much you want it, or want to put this on your CV, right?

 

 

You're totally right -- God forbid someone should have a difference of opinion from everyone else. I'll just shut up and let everyone just say the same exact thing over and over again. Message boards are way more fun in that way.

 

Its not a difference of opinion, its that you're so hell bent on defending everything as awesome and anyone being critical as IWC AWFUL!!!!  that you close your self off from listening to the other side.  You do the same damn thing you bitch at everyone else for doing.  

 

You can have an opinion, you just will never admit that its wrong.  This show is bad, the angles are bad, ratings are falling, Network subs are falling, crowds are dead, not "heels won aw shucks" reaction, but DEAD.  

 

You present all your opinions not like someone trying to show a different side, but like you're actually getting paid to drum up intrest in product that's largely regared as pure drivel right now.  

 

 

I see what you say, but I don't agree with it.  And continual goalpost moving doesn't help you.

 

 

So, essentially, I'm just like every other person on a wrestling message board but I just have a different opinion than everyone else?

Got it.

 

And now moving on to "I know you are but what am I?"  Doesn't help people take you seriously.

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It's sad that you're oblivious to how you're coming across that it isn't ok for the majority to think the current state of WWE, last night included, is a complete bunch of sad bullshit, especially when it's on the heels of solid NXT shows and the solutions to the myriad of problems is completely obvious. All you're doing is wanting to refute much of what we're saying, challenging many of us to point out why things are fucked up, which we've been doing, so you can have the opportunity to show us the error of our ways or preach the gospel, ignoring the many other valid points that you don't even attempt to acknowledge because doing so would be detrimental to whatever it is you're trying to argue. It's fine you like this product, don't be surprised though, when many raise a People's Eyebrow to the thought that everything is fine and dandy.

 

I like NXT better. Is there anyone on here who touts NXT more than me? I was writing 15,000,000 words a week on NXT when it was on Hulu.

And I'd venture to say that I'm not the one with the orthodox/Gospel opinion on here. In fact, I'm the ONLY one, essentially, who doesn't think this is the worst. And when has anyone who is constantly shitting on the product ever said "That's a good point!" to me? (And I back up my opinions with my logic behind why I like and don't like what I do.)

Most of these threads have become mostly about me. It's pretty ridiculous everyone gets all bent out of shape that someone -- gasp -- enjoys watching wrestling!

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What does Bray beating Justin Gabriel up for a few months do for him? Or Dean stomping Titus O'Neil?

 

This feud had what was essentially the Tully/Magnum role. (And I'm not saying it was Tully/Magnum.) But it's the b-feud between two dudes who want to beat the hell out of each other. Should NWA have gone with Tully vs. Randy Mulkey and Magnum vs. One Half Of The New Breed instead?

Good wrestlers need to feud with good wrestlers. A never ending string of jobber matches is a total snoooooooooze.

Tully trying to stop MulkeyMania would have been money. Also, the New Day sucks.  Hopefully Big E turns on those fools soon and explodes into a solo career.  

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It's sad that you're oblivious to how you're coming across that it isn't ok for the majority to think the current state of WWE, last night included, is a complete bunch of sad bullshit, especially when it's on the heels of solid NXT shows and the solutions to the myriad of problems is completely obvious. All you're doing is wanting to refute much of what we're saying, challenging many of us to point out why things are fucked up, which we've been doing, so you can have the opportunity to show us the error of our ways or preach the gospel, ignoring the many other valid points that you don't even attempt to acknowledge because doing so would be detrimental to whatever it is you're trying to argue. It's fine you like this product, don't be surprised though, when many raise a People's Eyebrow to the thought that everything is fine and dandy.

 

I like NXT better. Is there anyone on here who touts NXT more than me? I was writing 15,000,000 words a week on NXT when it was on Hulu.

And I'd venture to say that I'm not the one with the orthodox/Gospel opinion on here. In fact, I'm the ONLY one, essentially, who doesn't think this is the worst. And when has anyone who is constantly shitting on stuffing instead of potatoes ever said "That's a good point!" to me? (And I back up my opinions with my logic behind why I like and don't like what I do.)

Most of these threads have become mostly about me. It's pretty ridiculous everyone gets all bent out of shape that someone -- gasp -- enjoys watching wrestling!

 

Just throwing this out there, but I actually do agree with you for the most part. You just argue faster and better than me.

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t. And when has anyone who is constantly shitting on stuffing instead of potatoes ever said "That's a good point!" to me? (

Make a good point and someone might.

 

He has made plenty of good points. Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on.

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One of the things that drive me insane is how fixable this product is. There's literally at least a dozen guys on the program who could be doing more to help this show than they are. WWE's current business model is like if Coca Cola decides to quit selling all their other brands because Coke original sells the best. So instead of exploring other potential sales with brands like Coke Zero, Sprite, Diet Coke, et. al, we're ostensibly told by the Coca Cola company "if you don't like Coke, then fuck you." Instead of giving people who might like Ziggler or Cesaro or Barrett or Big E or Dean Ambrose something to be excited about, WWE is telling its audience "if you don't wanna get behind LOLCENAWINS, there's the door. Fuck millennials." It's frustrating.

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