The Man Known as Dan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Translatio One of the things that drive me insane is how fixable this product is. There's literally at least a dozen guys on the program who could be doing more to help this show than they are. WWE's current business model is like if Coca Cola decides to quit selling all their other brands because Coke original sells the best. So instead of exploring other potential sales with brands like Coke Zero, Sprite, Diet Coke, et. al, we're ostensibly told by the Coca Cola company "if you don't like Coke, then fuck you." Instead of giving people who might like Ziggler or Cesaro or Barrett or Big E or Dean Ambrose something to be excited about, WWE is telling its audience "if you don't wanna get behind LOLCENAWINS, there's the door. Fuck millennials." It's frustrating. Ziggler saved the day at Survivor Series and beat Harper at TLC. Barrett just returned and sleazily won the IC title from Ziggler. Ambrose just had a huge feud with Bray.What do you need to get excited about with those guys? Translation Ziggler won a giant match and then they did fuck all with him and put him right back into the IC scene which has been meaningless for a decade. Barrett returned, got a giant pop, then was rapidly a heel again because reasons. Ambrose just had a "massive feud" with someone, in a feud nobody gave even a quarter of a shit about from the start. What do we need to get excited about these guys other then that!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's sad that you're oblivious to how you're coming across that it isn't ok for the majority to think the current state of WWE, last night included, is a complete bunch of sad bullshit, especially when it's on the heels of solid NXT shows and the solutions to the myriad of problems is completely obvious. All you're doing is wanting to refute much of what we're saying, challenging many of us to point out why things are fucked up, which we've been doing, so you can have the opportunity to show us the error of our ways or preach the gospel, ignoring the many other valid points that you don't even attempt to acknowledge because doing so would be detrimental to whatever it is you're trying to argue. It's fine you like this product, don't be surprised though, when many raise a People's Eyebrow to the thought that everything is fine and dandy. I like NXT better. Is there anyone on here who touts NXT more than me? I was writing 15,000,000 words a week on NXT when it was on Hulu. And I'd venture to say that I'm not the one with the orthodox/Gospel opinion on here. In fact, I'm the ONLY one, essentially, who doesn't think this is the worst. And when has anyone who is constantly shitting on stuffing instead of potatoes ever said "That's a good point!" to me? (And I back up my opinions with my logic behind why I like and don't like what I do.) Most of these threads have become mostly about me. It's pretty ridiculous everyone gets all bent out of shape that someone -- gasp -- enjoys watching wrestling! Just throwing this out there, but I actually do agree with you for the most part. You just argue faster and better than me. I also generally agree. I just don't feel like banging my head against a wall. (Not saying you are, but that's what it would turn into for me personally.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The thing about Gregg is that he likes to reference all these awesome angles from the past, but he shows no evidence of having watched any of them. It seems like he's relying on third-hand accounts of how they went down. Otherwise, he'd know how absurd comparing them to current WWE is. Also, saying that Bray is over because people light up their cell phones is like saying that R-Truth is over because people sing along to What's Up. It's a pure Pavlovian reaction to his entrance. Meanwhile, he cuts his promos and wrestles his matches in complete silence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I was a WWF lemming during the heat of the Monday Night Wars when Nitro was kicking Raw's ass on a weekly basis without even trying.I used to work a Monday overnight shift at my job and would have to leave in the middle of the show, but would watch the last part of Raw at 6:30 AM before going to bed. Last night, at home with nothing in particular on my agenda, I felt no inclination whatsoever to turn on the TV. I kept watching through a lot of stuff that I didn't care for, but WWE still put on enough stuff that I liked to see. Nowadays, the scales are tipped in the other direction and I'd rather just let it record, then fast-forward through the promo segments on Tuesday afternoon/evening to watch the matches. If you like it, then good for you. Different wrestling fans like different things. This is my own personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Meanwhile, he cuts his promos and wrestles his matches in complete silence. That's a damn lie and you know it. People chant "What?" at him during his promos. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 This show made me yearn for the past. I don't even mean for the GOOD parts of the past. I'm yearning for mediocre shows where highlights were the Straight Edge Society and R-Truth in a Confederate uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on. See, Gregg was more tolerable when he was the "hey, wrestling is fun! Sit back and enjoy!" guy. Between last week's "If you don't like the Authority coming back, go fuck yourself" and this week's "RAW is great! How can you not understand how awesome it is?" followed by him ignoring everyone who explicitly explains why it's not awesome, only to then bring up the same tired points he's made since 2013, I'm resigned to the fact that he's now either being a contrarian or he's being obnoxious on purpose. So yes, I agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not changing mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on. See, Gregg was more tolerable when he was the "hey, wrestling is fun! Sit back and enjoy!" guy. Between last week's "If you don't like the Authority coming back, go fuck yourself" and this week's "RAW is great! How can you not understand how awesome it is?" followed by him ignoring everyone who explicitly explains why it's not awesome, only to then bring up the same tired points he's made since 2013, I'm resigned to the fact that he's now either being a contrarian or he's being obnoxious on purpose. So yes, I agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not changing mine. I will say the Ebbie/Greg double turn has been amusing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Meanwhile: "Twelve-page thread = people are talking = successful show". Or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on. See, Gregg was more tolerable when he was the "hey, wrestling is fun! Sit back and enjoy!" guy. Between last week's "If you don't like the Authority coming back, go fuck yourself" and this week's "RAW is great! How can you not understand how awesome it is?" followed by him ignoring everyone who explicitly explains why it's not awesome, only to then bring up the same tired points he's made since 2013, I'm resigned to the fact that he's now either being a contrarian or he's being obnoxious on purpose. So yes, I agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not changing mine. You see I don't recall Greg ever saying like it or go fuck yourself so much as you all taking that stance with him for not hating it like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on. See, Gregg was more tolerable when he was the "hey, wrestling is fun! Sit back and enjoy!" guy. Between last week's "If you don't like the Authority coming back, go fuck yourself" and this week's "RAW is great! How can you not understand how awesome it is?" followed by him ignoring everyone who explicitly explains why it's not awesome, only to then bring up the same tired points he's made since 2013, I'm resigned to the fact that he's now either being a contrarian or he's being obnoxious on purpose. So yes, I agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not changing mine. You see I don't recall Greg ever saying like it or go fuck yourself so much as you all taking that stance with him for not hating it like you do. His first words in the thread were "Fuck All of You. That Ending Ruled." 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooks Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The personal loathing directed towards Gregg for defending what he likes is preposterous. Again, I don't agree with him that the Authority coming back is good in any way but goddamn, you'd think he was raising a middle finger to everyone here when he's clearly not. Even if you don't like his arguments, man, the venom over it is insane. And to whomever asked why anyone would even want to get called up from NXT......I dunno....better chance at a pay raise, tv exposure that would help with bookings even if they got released, better chance at possible merchandise royalties if they get merch made, traveling the world, knowing they took another step up the ladder of their dream job.....just a few possible reasons I guess. Edited for stupid autocorrect problems. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Okay, to be fair, here are some things that I am not a fan of right now:POST-WYATT MEMBERS. I would love to see a good feud between Harper and Rowan that's built up with a story to it. Rowan hated having to take direction from Harper or some such. That's a missed opportunity for a fun undercard feud.MIZDOW. I'm really not a fan of their stuff at all. It's amusing but works best in limited doses. They're doing too much with it. It's like the new Zach Ryder for me. I hated Ryder so much and thought he was terrible and people were rallying behind something completely dumb. And I don't hate The Miz (I liked his heel work when he was built up to the title -- his promo against MVP was an all-time great promo) and I really loved Sandow's initial material and his tag with Cody. But it's really not working for me.TAGS IN GENERAL. I love The Usos as workers and The Dust Brothers, too. But they really need to do something to make that division interesting again. Also, they should just dump The Ascension. It isn't that they're buried, it's just that they're not all that good. They weren't in NXT, either.DIVAS DIVISION. The eternal problem. There's no heel/face structure. They've improved but the Bellas will forever be awful to me. I get why they tie their angles into Total Divas, but I have absolutely zero interest in watching that show.But none of those are going to make me hate the overall show. It's wrestling. The shows will never be 100 percent perfect. It's fun. Enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Okay, to be fair, here are some things that I am not a fan of right now: POST-WYATT MEMBERS. I would love to see a good feud between Harper and Rowan that's built up with a story to it. Rowan hated having to take direction from Harper or some such. That's a missed opportunity for a fun undercard feud. MIZDOW. I'm really not a fan of their stuff at all. It's amusing but works best in limited doses. They're doing too much with it. It's like the new Zach Ryder for me. I hated Ryder so much and thought he was terrible and people were rallying behind something completely dumb. And I don't hate The Miz (I liked his heel work when he was built up to the title -- his promo against MVP was an all-time great promo) and I really loved Sandow's initial material and his tag with Cody. But it's really not working for me. TAGS IN GENERAL. I love The Usos as workers and The Dust Brothers, too. But they really need to do something to make that division interesting again. Also, they should just dump The Ascension. It isn't that they're buried, it's just that they're not all that good. They weren't in NXT, either. DIVAS DIVISION. The eternal problem. There's no heel/face structure. They've improved but the Bellas will forever be awful to me. I get why they tie their angles into Total Divas, but I have absolutely zero interest in watching that show. But none of those are going to make me hate the overall show. It's wrestling. The shows will never be 100 percent perfect. It's fun. Enjoy it. But it's not fun to what seems like the majority here. It's boring. It's repetitive. It's stupid and frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Greg not liking the Bellas is exactly like giving me a huge middle finger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Okay, to be fair, here are some things that I am not a fan of right now: POST-WYATT MEMBERS. I would love to see a good feud between Harper and Rowan that's built up with a story to it. Rowan hated having to take direction from Harper or some such. That's a missed opportunity for a fun undercard feud. MIZDOW. I'm really not a fan of their stuff at all. It's amusing but works best in limited doses. They're doing too much with it. It's like the new Zach Ryder for me. I hated Ryder so much and thought he was terrible and people were rallying behind something completely dumb. And I don't hate The Miz (I liked his heel work when he was built up to the title -- his promo against MVP was an all-time great promo) and I really loved Sandow's initial material and his tag with Cody. But it's really not working for me. TAGS IN GENERAL. I love The Usos as workers and The Dust Brothers, too. But they really need to do something to make that division interesting again. Also, they should just dump The Ascension. It isn't that they're buried, it's just that they're not all that good. They weren't in NXT, either. DIVAS DIVISION. The eternal problem. There's no heel/face structure. They've improved but the Bellas will forever be awful to me. I get why they tie their angles into Total Divas, but I have absolutely zero interest in watching that show. But none of those are going to make me hate the overall show. It's wrestling. The shows will never be 100 percent perfect. It's fun. Enjoy it. But it's not fun to what seems like the majority here. It's boring. It's repetitive. It's stupid and frustrating. I only said that because someone said I was more "tolerable" last year. I'll abide by that. I don't want to get personal on here with anyone. That's silly. I do think last year around this time was possibly the best stretch of big league wrestling of my lifetime. That includes my beloved childhood NWA/WCW and the better WWF/E periods. There was substance (Daniel Bryan as proof that positivity wins out) and depth (tying it into The Rhodes Brothers and Big Show) and new characters (Wyatts, etc.) and non-stop awesome matches (everything The Shield did). But a lot of people dumped on it last year for whatever reasons. The show is nowhere -- nowhere -- near as good. But that doesn't make this year bad. It makes it just not as good. So since people dumped on something that was REALLY awesome last year and are now claiming it's the absolute worst dreck (and that's not hyberbole) makes me really dubious that they're taking a fair approach looking at this critically. I get why people think EVIL POWER BROKER RULING EARTH is played. It is. But if we're going to have that, than I love HHH and Steph as performers. They've been wonderful. Especially Steph, who in previous incarnations was absolutely miserable to watch. But tying in their performance into any alleged shenanigans of the past -- They'll never put people over and want all the spotlight -- doesn't hold water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Greg not liking the Bellas is exactly like giving me a huge middle finger. They're way better in-ring than they were, when they obviously gave zero craps. I'll give them that. But their acting and promos is just the absolute pits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 They ain't the only shitty promo/actors on the show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The most frustating thing is that the in-ring content IS really damn good these days, but I just can't bring myself to care about the characters involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoeCristyV.1.6 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Just read that about the Bellas and wondered where ebbie is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 First time I talked them this week tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The most frustating thing is that the in-ring content IS really damn good these days, but I just can't bring myself to care about the characters involved. Exactly this. I made this point awhile ago in an NXT thread, but the reason people love NXT more than the main roster isn't just the in-ring action, it's the characters and booking of the entire show. I'd argue that there are very few people in NXT who are better in-ring than the main roster, but I am more heavily invested in the characters in NXT because of the consistant and good booking around them. The reason NXT REvolution was a great show wasn't just because the wrestling was good, it was because several of the main storylines were finally paid off in a satisfying and interesting way. RAW doesn't have that. WHY did Rowan leave the Wyatt family and align himself with Cena against the Authority? There has been NOTHING to explain it. One week he's a back woods swamp monster and the next we're supposed to cheer for him because he's playing with a Rubix Cube in the back and we're told he has a high IQ. Weeks/months of The Bellas storyline with Brie being Nikki's slave for a month. That was a good build up, had something of a pay off, but then there was no pay off to that pay off. All of a sudden Brie and Nikki are back on the same page. Why? No explaination there either. Bray and Ambrose have had good matches that could've been great matches if we were given more of a reason to actually CARE about why they are fighting. Bray Wyatt is a compelling character, but his last two fueds (Ambrose/Jericho) have fallen flat because there really has been no reason for them, despite Bray getting ample mic time. And his promos are compelling because he can talk like nobody else. Unfortuately, in his 5 minute monologues, he's not really saying anything to further his stories. Then, past the mid-card where nothing really matters and nothing is explained, we have the main story with The Authority, which actually has been decently laid out and executed over the last several weeks/months. Unfortuately, it's a story that nobody wants to see. It's old and stale and nobody wants to see HHH and Steph in charge anymore. THAT is the problem. The ONE story they're actually focusing all their time on is one that nobody wants to see, and the stories that people would likely get more in to are the ones they don't flesh out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Since someone asked, here are some things I'd try as to how to fix the Monday Night Product: 1. I watched "WWE Countdown" on the Network last week. IT's the one about the great Rumble moments. I believe #2 was Roman Reigns breaking the elimination record. There was a great segment with some of the other superstars questioning the validity of the record as one of the "Superstars" eliminated was El Torito. The end of that segment had Reigns trying to keep a straight face while defending El Torito as a performer. It was very "who are you to doubt el Dandy?" in its delivery. Let Roman go on tv and be that guy and I guarantee he'd be about 874X more likable than he is currently. I know the guy and I'm getting sick of it. I understand why people don't think he's ready. I'd also extend his "smolder" period. Let him break his own record in the Rumble and then get eliminated by some mid-card heel right after Reigns makes a big elimination. Then that heel can get an "oh shit" look on his face when he realizes what he just did. Have Reigns chase him a few weeks on tv, then destroy him at the feb. PPV. Have him retire Kane at Mania. Build his aura the way you did so masterfully in 2013. By Summerslam or Survivor Series, he might be ready for what you want him to be ready for. 2. A cult leader without a cult is just a dude who likes to hear himself talk. After this feud with Ambrose, have Bray Wyatt "Rebuild" his family. Ryder, Axel, Emma. More of a "Raven's Flock" feel. Make him formidable again. When he was at his best, he had Rowan & Harper to do his dirty dirty for him, and he needs that again. 3. If you delay putting the title on Reigns, then Ziggler should be the first challenger for Rollins post-Mania. A heel champ Rollins running from a motivated Ziggler would be some compelling-ass tv. No matter what "The Authority" puts in front of Ziggler, have him overcome. Sound familiar? The way you build a new Cena is to treat someone like the old Cena. 4. Dean Ambrose. It's odd, because I think part of his charm is that i find myself as a fan care less about him winning matches than i do about him getting his hands on those he feel has wronged him. After this Wyatt fiasco is over, I DO think he needs a decisive "win" in a feud with someone Authority affiliated, Del Rio would've been great for this. I guess Big Show will do now. Have him ready to go into Summerslam with heel Rollins again, this time for the big gold. 5. This is all for naught because of the Cena Problem. No matter what you present, the shadow of John Cena will be hanging over everyone on the show that isn't him. Idk what the answer is, because there's no way Vince is gonna send the cash-cow off to Hollywood with a smile and pat on the back. Not gonna work. Maybe do him like Hogan when Hart was champ the first time and have Cena in feuds with guys like Rusev and other monsters you might want to build up. I honestly believe that Cena has enough cache with his audience that they're gonna buy the Cena merch no matter what he's doing on tv, so the question is how close to the margin you can slide him before his audience notices. Now might be the time to find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Did they mention if Rollins being put in the RR title match counts as his MITB cash in or is he still going to have the briefcase regardless of the result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many just refuse to see the logic in them because they want to be angry and shit on everything or its wrong simply because its not what they want to see. Honestly it would probably be best to just agree to disagree and move on. See, Gregg was more tolerable when he was the "hey, wrestling is fun! Sit back and enjoy!" guy. Between last week's "If you don't like the Authority coming back, go fuck yourself" and this week's "RAW is great! How can you not understand how awesome it is?" followed by him ignoring everyone who explicitly explains why it's not awesome, only to then bring up the same tired points he's made since 2013, I'm resigned to the fact that he's now either being a contrarian or he's being obnoxious on purpose. So yes, I agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not changing mine. You see I don't recall Greg ever saying like it or go fuck yourself so much as you all taking that stance with him for not hating it like you do. His first words in the thread were "Fuck All of You. That Ending Ruled." My mistake. I apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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