Victator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 And to his credit Heyman never sabotaged people. Which you think would be natural, but apparently goes against other promoters instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Bill Watts should come up in this discussion too if, for no other reason, he made a HUGE star out of JYD. Junk Yard Dog made Sandman look like Jack Brisco and yet he was working main events at the Superdome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 JYD was loaded with charisma, he was over every place he went. Watts is another guy who made sure not to sabotage his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sabu was working main events and semi main events in FMW, which was a bigger promotion than ECW ever was. Sabu made ECW, not the other way around; Taz was over in the WWF regardless of how he was booked. I still wonder exactly how big people expect a guy named Taz to be? Douglas had just come off of a run as Ricky Steamboat's partner in WCW and was unified tag champion. Tons of guys would love to have that spot. Sandman was getting a segment on Nitro every week and dominating Kevin Nash in matches, that is a good spot to have. You really can't argue any with the Sabu/Douglas points he is making. Sabu had a huge buzz and was getting booked all over the US and Japan before ECW. People were seeking out ECW to see Sabu and Terry Funk. To say Douglas was a nobody or no one had interest in him is totally wrong as well. He had a run in WCW and was always being looked at by WWF before ECW. He had something , but ECW probably tapped into his talents and used them most effectively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 JYD was loaded with charisma, he was over every place he went. Watts is another guy who made sure not to sabotage his talent. Yes, but he wasn't "main event at the Superdome" big before Watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Heyman was definitely the obvious answer. I agree with that sentiment. Someone (Gregg, maybe?) always points out how Public Enemy seemed like a legit tough-guy tag team from the streets in ECW and a Nasty Boys cosplay except with a hip-hop influenced theme in WCW. I actually enjoy PE's short run in WCW, but I also agree with that sentiment, and I think they might be the best example of how Heyman got the most out of guys that really looked sort of low-rent in any other setting. Re: Ramsey's point about Bill Watts, I sort of accept that idea except that he didn't get the most out of Ron Simmons while trying to book him the same way as JYD, and I think Ron Simmons is a generally underrated talent that wasn't out of place as WCW Champ. Part of it was that he was undercut by who he was booked against when defending the gold and it all came off lame duck. He really needed Rude not to get hurt so that he could have defended against him, and he also probably needed to have a face-vs-face "respect" style match against Sting that ended in a draw or something and showed that he was on that level. I was wondering about other people both now and historically. For example, is New Japan's resurgence because Jado and Gedo are maximizing their talent at a historically-impressive level in comparison to other promoters? I also wonder how people view Vince McMahon Sr. as a creative mind. Where do you all place him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Public Enemy jumped to WCW at a really bad time. Same month that both the Steiners and Road Warriors returned.I think people forget how over they were in WCW their first two years. Watching them in 95 right now and think they were great promos and doing vignettes. Heymen's gift was seeing the potential in Cheetah Kid and a guy doing jobs on Wrestling Challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Isn't the lesson with Heyman that wrestling companies tend to be way more close minded than the audience is about who a main eventer is and what a main eventer looks like? You really can't point to what a wrestler did pre or post ecw because that's the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubtingELDANDY Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 When PE won the WCW tag titles, the crowd went nuts. The tag division in WCW during 96/97 was so loaded (dare I say best ever) that PE couldn't be major players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think the counter-points that PE was in a loaded division with the Steiners and Road Warriors (though the Warriors were gone pretty quickly there) are good, and they were over to a solid degree partially because of their use of tables as props. They also had an underrated brawl with the Nasties at...maybe Uncensored 1996? I can't quite remember. They didn't come off as big or as violent though. Part of that is WCW being more corporate and for a different audience, but they also did seem a bit overshadowed by other violent/brawler tag teams that did that schtick way better than they did at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Wyatt Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Heyman made people believe in Mikey Whipwreck: ECW World Heavyweight Champion. That's turning water into wine as far as I'm concerned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Heyman made people believe in Mikey Whipwreck: ECW World Heavyweight Champion. That's turning water into wine as far as I'm concerned. Most definitely. I think the main thing to take away from ECW is that Heyman took guys who were very limited and turned them into an attraction. The "story lines" were hit and miss, mostly hit but there was some garbage.. Even so everyone felt like a somebody and they were all different. WWE's problem since about 2002 is that nobody is special and everything is cookie cutter. Remember that period where everyone looked like Randy Orton? People have to admit that a guy like The Sandman has obvious flaws. I mean, come on. But Heyman made him special. The fact that he was able to go on and be successful elsewhere is not just a credit to the man himself but it's also a credit to Heyman because people actually bought into this dude and continued to book him. He wouldn't have been looked at by anyone else. Probably laughed at. But Heyman turned him into a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Last year WWE was foaming at the mouth about bringing Batista back. Then they were foaming at the mouth about turning a green Roman Reigns into the next John Cena. They gave Brock Lesnar, someone who has zero loyalty to the company and a quickly approaching expiration date on his contract the two most decisive wins over main eventers in recent memory and allowed him to essentially disappear with the championship. So he did learn something from his excursion to Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Savage didn't actually fuck Stephanie. I think we all know that. It's just kinda funny to joke about, because screw the McMahon's. If it had actually happened, I don't think any of us would then joke about it or support Savage. You dont believe that do you? People still support Benoit. How are we defining "support" for Benoit? If its "Can watch his matches without feeling weird about it" (and for the record, I can't) that seems a far cry from "Is totally cool with the guy. I mean, people make mistakes, right?" These are for sale. I've seen someone wearing one. Sad but true, that's not even the worst shirt on that website. Click at your discretion: 1 2If I ever see someone wearing this, I might punch them in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sabu & ECW is like Ronnie Wood and the Rolling Stones both great with out each other but there's something about them together that makes for magic it just clicks. Sabu would have been Sabu without ECW but not in the same respect nor would he be as revered as he is much like Ronnie when he joined the Stones in 78. Sabu brought and urgency and must see feel to ECW, Ronnie brought the slide guitar and kept Mick and Keith from killing each other. Sabu was on the path to urban legend but Paul made him an underground icon. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 This is a random thought but will the Northeast ever see another WrestleMania? There are no large dome stadiums in the Northeast, unless you count the Carrier Dome but Syracuse is not hosting a WrestleMania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If Snyder builds a new stadium in DC, i could see one there. This year proves a new stadium doesnt need to be a dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have to assume MetLife is in the rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have to assume MetLife is in the rotation. Hell, it was just there two years ago. Vince will always go back to north east periodically. It's his home base. It's weird how there wasn't a southeast (not counting Texas) mania for the first 23 years, and then there were three in the area in five years, plus again last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 When cities give you tax breaks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Once they give Dallas a Wrestlemania, The largest TV market to never host a Wrestlemania is Washington DC (market #9). Out of the top 20 markets, 13 have (or will) host Wrestlemania. The 7 exceptions being Dallas, DC, Tampa, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Denver and Sacramento. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Public Enemy did get really bad by 1998 in WCW. They were not trying at all and Grunge was getting blown up just running the ropes. I think that hurt their reputation in the long run.Anybody remember the rumor that Bill Demott was going to become a third member of Public Enemy? I think I heard it on that free hotline Wade Keller ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 As a Western Washingington native I would like to see Mania return to Seattle. They ran Safeco they next natural step is Centuray Link hosting Mania. It doesnt have a roof but they could do a cover over the ring like Metlfe and Miami plus that place has great acoustics it would be a loud Mania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I have to assume MetLife is in the rotation. Hell, it was just there two years ago. Vince will always go back to north east periodically. It's his home base. It's weird how there wasn't a southeast (not counting Texas) mania for the first 23 years, and then there were three in the area in five years, plus again last year. WWE also got really lucky. The Northeast in March outdoors can be either really cold or moderately warm. NYC is about as far north as you CAN go outdoors and not risk a full blown blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Truth be told, it was pretty fucking cold in the upper deck. Taker's fireballs were the most over thing on the show in my section right above the entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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