Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
Matt D

Wrestlemania XXXI

Recommended Posts

It wasn't exactly launching an angle, but Hogan walking out of 9 with the strap. "Politics, brother," was the MITB case of its time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to say it, but Brock/Roman probably don't have it in them to go 45 minutes either.  I foresee a LOT of stupid hype packages

Ooooo and SKITS! Remember, the E in WWE is for "Entertainment!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mean Gene did a walk-on during Ziggler's segment on WM Today and...I don't want to say Gene was sauced, but Gene was sauced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A drunk Mean Gene is still better than a sober Ziggler.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Foley was undoubtedly a main eventer and he lost all the time.

He was a heel though for atleast a lot of those Mankind/Dude Love losses. Can't speak on periods later than that.

He only won like three matches that actually mattered as a face from '99 on (RAW and Halftime Heat vs Rock and SummerSlam triple threat with Austin and HHH). Outside of Rock-N-Sock and building up Cactus Jack for the HHH matches, he wasn't doing a whole lot of winning back then.

 

As I said, I can't really speak on anything past his Mankind/Dude Love era stuff.

 

Clearly, Foley losing all the time was the way to go though, right? Foley seemed at best #4-#5, not #2-#3 like Daniel Bryan.

 

 

Dude, you're still totally on a different wavelength here. You're still trying to make a long winded case of "Bryan should THE GUY". All the people you compare him to were used as absolute Face of the Company/Face of the Brand guys. What I'm saying is that while he's not the guy, he's in an incredibly good spot and is clearly a priority to them. He's been a priority since the day they willing to risk corporate sponsorships on bringing him back after the Nexus incident. You complain about early DB stuff like they should have brought him up day 1 and said "hey, this is DB and he's the fucking man, he's gonna get Cena in his first man and woop his ass." He's been consistently pushed in a realistic fashion from day 1 and they're always made sure when any DB angle ends, he's either more over than before OR he's putting someone over who's really important to them.

 

You're making it seem like dropping falls to Bray and Roman is being shit on. They just want to also get Bray and Roman over, and that's NOT a bad thing. He was originally supposed to get the guy who ended up facing THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THE COMPANY at Mania 30 and that would have been a burial apparently. They're invested in Bray, in Roman, and in Bryan. Probably more than in Bryan, but they're both younger and don't have 10 years of being in RoH and being dropped on their head by Morishima and Nigel on their bodies so it's a smarter investment. Just like Foley couldn't be the man after years of deathmatches and stupid bumps against Vader before he came. But Bryan is a spot where he always treated like a big deal works the longest match on the card most of the time, and only loses in situations made to genuinely elevate another star to the next level. If that really bothers you and you don't feel your getting your money's worth from that cause "WHY CAN'T BE WHERE ROMAN IS!?!?" then you really need to sit back for a moment and realize that DB is in a 0.00001% of the most high profile wrestlers in the world that you get to see on TV every single week and get 15+ minute matches from and based on where he came for and what he and we all thought his career was gonna be, that's fucking AMAZING. And I absolutely love Daniel Bryan.

 

 

Trying to stay at least a little Mania centric, with the meh-ish booking of Reigns the past month (they haven't really spent anymore time trying to convince you he's worth anymore than you thought he did after Fastline), what's the odds Vince actually recognizes Roman is DOA, but is pushing through with the match just cause he needs it to build to Brock/Rock next year? I know I'm probably giving Vince way too credit here, but I think he may not so much be stubborn as much he sees the bigger picture and knows if he wants to sell out Jerry-World, Brock/Rock is just about the only match left that can do it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They'll sell out JerryWorld based on stength of branding alone. If you said "Will spike interest in Network buys", that's closer to what they need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They'll sell out JerryWorld based on stength of branding alone. If you said "Will spike interest in Network buys", that's closer to what they need.

According to Meltzer they still haven't sold out Levi's Stadium which is like half the size. I'm not saying Jerry-World will be empty, but I think if you put this year's card in there, you wouldn't get past probably 75% full. I think Vince and co will think that this year is a wash but next year's Mania has to be HUGE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vince will prob blame it on being n meltzers hometown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would take an insane card to sell out Mania next year.

Undertaker v Sting

Cena v Austin

The Rock+Roman Reigns vs Triple H+Seth Rollins

Rusev v Lesnar? Bryan v HBK?

Need to pull out all the stops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still say Rock vs. Austin one more time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Foley was undoubtedly a main eventer and he lost all the time.

He was a heel though for atleast a lot of those Mankind/Dude Love losses. Can't speak on periods later than that.

He only won like three matches that actually mattered as a face from '99 on (RAW and Halftime Heat vs Rock and SummerSlam triple threat with Austin and HHH). Outside of Rock-N-Sock and building up Cactus Jack for the HHH matches, he wasn't doing a whole lot of winning back then.

 

As I said, I can't really speak on anything past his Mankind/Dude Love era stuff.

 

Clearly, Foley losing all the time was the way to go though, right? Foley seemed at best #4-#5, not #2-#3 like Daniel Bryan.

 

 

Dude, you're still totally on a different wavelength here. You're still trying to make a long winded case of "Bryan should THE GUY". All the people you compare him to were used as absolute Face of the Company/Face of the Brand guys. What I'm saying is that while he's not the guy, he's in an incredibly good spot and is clearly a priority to them. He's been a priority since the day they willing to risk corporate sponsorships on bringing him back after the Nexus incident. You complain about early DB stuff like they should have brought him up day 1 and said "hey, this is DB and he's the fucking man, he's gonna get Cena in his first man and woop his ass." He's been consistently pushed in a realistic fashion from day 1 and they're always made sure when any DB angle ends, he's either more over than before OR he's putting someone over who's really important to them.

 

You're making it seem like dropping falls to Bray and Roman is being shit on. They just want to also get Bray and Roman over, and that's NOT a bad thing. He was originally supposed to get the guy who ended up facing THE BIGGEST DRAW IN THE COMPANY at Mania 30 and that would have been a burial apparently. They're invested in Bray, in Roman, and in Bryan. Probably more than in Bryan, but they're both younger and don't have 10 years of being in RoH and being dropped on their head by Morishima and Nigel on their bodies so it's a smarter investment. Just like Foley couldn't be the man after years of deathmatches and stupid bumps against Vader before he came. But Bryan is a spot where he always treated like a big deal works the longest match on the card most of the time, and only loses in situations made to genuinely elevate another star to the next level. If that really bothers you and you don't feel your getting your money's worth from that cause "WHY CAN'T BE WHERE ROMAN IS!?!?" then you really need to sit back for a moment and realize that DB is in a 0.00001% of the most high profile wrestlers in the world that you get to see on TV every single week and get 15+ minute matches from and based on where he came for and what he and we all thought his career was gonna be, that's fucking AMAZING. And I absolutely love Daniel Bryan.

 

 

Trying to stay at least a little Mania centric, with the meh-ish booking of Reigns the past month (they haven't really spent anymore time trying to convince you he's worth anymore than you thought he did after Fastline), what's the odds Vince actually recognizes Roman is DOA, but is pushing through with the match just cause he needs it to build to Brock/Rock next year? I know I'm probably giving Vince way too credit here, but I think he may not so much be stubborn as much he sees the bigger picture and knows if he wants to sell out Jerry-World, Brock/Rock is just about the only match left that can do it. 

 

We don't know if Bryan can or can't be the guy and as long as he is not seriously pushed, we will never know.. He got injured and we didn't get to see. He also didn't get a fair shake and protection which the likes of Cena, Reigns, HHH, Brock, Batista, Orton and other "real main eventers" have.

 

I really think you don't understand how you book top faces or heel at all. Just so you know, you protect them and make them look good. That means they don't lose that many falls, they don't get abused by the commentary team and they don't get put in midcard comedy segments.

 

WWE knows how to get people over and they definitely know how to get people over when it is someone they want. They want Reigns to get over, so they are giving him everything you should give a main event face, whereas Bryan gets everything that you would give a person who you don't care about and don't want to get over. You can't seriously claim that WWE has given him a fair shake booking wise when you have Roman Reigns and John Cena being booked like top faces should be booked.

 

We all like the idea of Bray being WWE's top heel, but they haven't given him even close to a chance of being that either and have booked him like shit as well. He is not being booked like a top heel or soon to be top heel would be. Bray's fine and maybe he can be, but unless the goal is Kane 2.0, they are failing hard.

 

Bryan is never treated like a big deal. You can't honestly think he is treated booking wise like Reigns, Cena, HHH, Brock, Orton, etc.

 

Anyone can be the man. A fat southern babyface couldn't be the man, then came Dusty. A skinny pretty boy couldn't be the man, then came Shawn Michaels. A bald long-time WCW midcarder couldn't be the man, then came Stone Cold. The man is whoever the fans want it to be and whoever the company lets be. WWE is a global company and with the network, has no real pressure. They could book Zack Ryder as the man and if they worked on it and protected him, he could be it. Just think, the biggest US draw in sports in a skinny small black guy named Floyd. He can't be the man, but he's going to draw $400 million with another guy who can't be the man, a skinny and small asian guy named Manny who doesn't speak English as a first language. Too bad neither one of them can be the man though, right?

 

Yes, all of this is a step up from his indy days for sure, but you can say that for almost anyone on the roster. Hey, my current job is a step up from my previous jobs, but I still want more.

 

We don't know what can sell-out Texas and we won't know until it happens. If you promote any match the right way and use the right people, it's possible. Just remember, there's no way on earth two skinny and small guys could ever draw $400 million, but they are about to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top guys don't do comedy segments...

 

I must have imagined Rock's mini-fued with Hurricane and Austin singing to McMahon next to a mini-cowboy hat wearing Kurt Angle then.

 

Must have missed the fact that Rock put friggin EVERYONE over and dropped falls left and right and is considered one of the greatest of all time.

 

I must have imagined Ventura and Heenan slagging the shit out of Hogan, Savage, Warrior, and Hart during the 80's/Early 90's.

 

Or missed Flair's "Yeah, you beat me, but you ain't proved shit yet" promo on Hart after Bret won the belt.

 

As for the rest, I'm not sure if that was strawman, comparing apples to aliens, or just Bryan Zeal.

 

 

And using Mayweather/Paquaio to whine that Bryan isn't being booked as Superman is, wow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Rock vs. Brock on top, with Undertaker's retirement match, and a third compelling main-event "Dream match" style match (HHH vs. Rollins? Rusev vs. Bryan?) Could sell an ass of tickets to Wmania 32...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top guys don't do comedy segments...

 

I must have imagined Rock's mini-fued with Hurricane and Austin singing to McMahon next to a mini-cowboy hat wearing Kurt Angle then.

 

Must have missed the fact that Rock put friggin EVERYONE over and dropped falls left and right and is considered one of the greatest of all time.

 

I must have imagined Ventura and Heenan slagging the shit out of Hogan, Savage, Warrior, and Hart during the 80's/Early 90's.

 

Or missed Flair's "Yeah, you beat me, but you ain't proved shit yet" promo on Hart after Bret won the belt.

 

As for the rest, I'm not sure if that was strawman, comparing apples to aliens, or just Bryan Zeal.

 

 

And using Mayweather/Paquaio to whine that Bryan isn't being booked as Superman is, wow.

Are you really going to tell me The Rock/Hurricane mini-feud was similar to Team Hell No? A three week at max program is similar to 6+ months of comedy and goofiness. Also, how can you compare 2003 Rock to 2015 Daniel Bryan? Rock was already made and had peaked by that point. Daniel Bryan hasn't and didn't have 5ish years of being the top star in the business like Rock had.

 

Austin's heel turn/comedic role marked the end of the the height of the Attitude era of wrestling, so obviously that wasn't best for business. It would be ridiculous for anyone to say that was the best possible usage of Austin.

 

I already said this, but you didn't read it. Let's try again. Make sure to read this time class:

Heenan and Ventura never said Hulk was balding/old, Warrior was juiced up and they never said Hart was boring or had no charisma. This what they did with Daniel Bryan. They pointed out personal flaws that didn't advance the match or the storyline, they were just personal shots. It's totally different to accuse someone of cheating in a match as opposed to being a bald, old and leathery man.

 

I asked for Bryan to get a fair shake, which he didn't get. He might be the next big superstar. We will never know, because he wasn't given a chance. Cena wasn't where he was today at the beginning of his career either. Roman Reigns may be a superstar in the making and may be the next Rock someday, it's just too early at this point. Give him a year or two or three and let's see.

 

Bryan is ridiculed for being too small and not charismatic enough, but yet Manny and Floyd are both too small and are probably going to make more off of this one fight than WWE's going to make for most of their year. If Bryan was 6'5, do you think he'd have any of the booking troubles he does now? I don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, we gotta save something for Sunday night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This talking to a wall, but...

 

Heel commentators have taken shots at top faces forever . Ventura and Heenan did it constantly with EVERY FACE ON THE ROSTER.  Especially Hogan, and Ventura did it a ton with Warrior.  You're ignoring all that because current team isn't verbally felatting Bryan every match.  Ventura and Heenan constantly slagged off Hogan and accused him constantly of being an act and full of shit on every broadcast.  Ventura constantly slagged Warrior's lack of techincal skill.  Heenan gave Warrior shit about his cardio.  Heenan gave Hart shit for not belonging in the top tier and hadn't proved himself.  Its what Heel commentators do.  While current crop isn't up to the exceptionally high bar Jesse and Bobby set, they also didn't have Vince screaming in their ear like current commentators do now.

 

Everyone does comedy at some point.  Fuck, Angle *WAS* a comedy act for years before Super Serious Angle kicked in, and even then, he drifts in and out of comedy still.  Rock never didn't do comedy.

 

Manny and Floyd are NOT a comparsion.  They are two of the best fighters period, and the top of their weight class, and two guys that constantly fight in their weight class against other guys their size, so SIZE DOESN'T MATTER IN BOXING.  Floyd and Manny are going to make $400 Million because they're exciting fighters and its been accepted for over a decade that lower weight classes are more exciting fights to watch because the guys don't lumber around.  To compare Bryan "Not being pushed hard enough" with Manny/Floyd as an exampe of leaving money on the table is giving the World Baseball Classic shit for not making a ton of money because the World Cup is the most watched tournament in the world.  Its different sports to a different audience.

 

This is all strawmanning because seriously, you're upset that Bryan isn't booked as Superman.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This talking to a wall, but...

 

Heel commentators have taken shots at top faces forever . Ventura and Heenan did it constantly with EVERY FACE ON THE ROSTER.  Especially Hogan, and Ventura did it a ton with Warrior.  You're ignoring all that because current team isn't verbally felatting Bryan every match.  Ventura and Heenan constantly slagged off Hogan and accused him constantly of being an act and full of shit on every broadcast.  Ventura constantly slagged Warrior's lack of techincal skill.  Heenan gave Warrior shit about his cardio.  Heenan gave Hart shit for not belonging in the top tier and hadn't proved himself.  Its what Heel commentators do.  While current crop isn't up to the exceptionally high bar Jesse and Bobby set, they also didn't have Vince screaming in their ear like current commentators do now.

 

Everyone does comedy at some point.  Fuck, Angle *WAS* a comedy act for years before Super Serious Angle kicked in, and even then, he drifts in and out of comedy still.  Rock never didn't do comedy.

 

Manny and Floyd are NOT a comparsion.  They are two of the best fighters period, and the top of their weight class, and two guys that constantly fight in their weight class against other guys their size, so SIZE DOESN'T MATTER IN BOXING.  Floyd and Manny are going to make $400 Million because they're exciting fighters and its been accepted for over a decade that lower weight classes are more exciting fights to watch because the guys don't lumber around.  To compare Bryan "Not being pushed hard enough" with Manny/Floyd as an exampe of leaving money on the table is giving the World Baseball Classic shit for not making a ton of money because the World Cup is the most watched tournament in the world.  Its different sports to a different audience.

 

This is all strawmanning because seriously, you're upset that Bryan isn't booked as Superman.  

Again, They never took personal shots and they never did it so consistently. They did this EVERY WEEK with DB. They never just took one either. They said multiple things. I've watched more old wrestling than just about anyone here weekly and I don't remember any of that. I do remember Heenan or Jesse ripping on Hogan going after the eyes once in a while, but that's it. You can claim different, but that's not how it went.

 

Size doesn't matter in wrestling either, so I think Manny and Floyd are perfect comparisons. They are both good smaller guys who are going to make more money than WWE will for the most part this year. In WWE terms, they shouldn't be able to and they aren't able to, but they are. Size matters to WWE only and as I said, if DB was 6'5, none of this would be a problem.

 

For the 4th or 5th time, I'm not asking Bryan to be Superman. I'm asking him to get a chance. 6-8 months at the top guy. Buyrates don't matter and ratings are going to stay the same anyway, so there is almost no risk involved. Let him sink or swim. What's the worst that can happen? He's the most over guy in the company and he's the best wrestler in the company.

 

I really do think so many people here are just so exposed to bad booking that they don't get what good booking is anymore. I don't blame you, if you watch WWE all the time, your standards will change, but seriously, it's hard to argue WWE tried everything they could to get DB over and do the best they could with him in the last six months to last year's mania.

 

I also really think everyone here thinks DB should:

- Constantly be beaten down, destroyed and embarrassed

- Have all of his faults pointed out as much as possible

- Involve himself in comedy angles all the time

- Not worry because in the end, as long as we have him win or get over at the end of the angle, it doesn't matter.

 

This is not good wrestling booking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you dispute the payoff at Wrestlemania 30 was one of the greatest of all time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you dispute the payoff at Wrestlemania 30 was one of the greatest of all time?

Horrible non-existant build to a good payoff. The original build/plan was for:

Orton/Batista

Bryan getting destroyed by the Authority for Bryan/Bray

Punk/HHH.

 

After the RR, we went to:

Orton/Batista/Bryan

Bryan/HHH

 

I also want to add that I thought the 2nd chapter of that storyline with DB as the champ was botched and ended prematurely, and the 3rd chapter, with him coming back from injury/family deaths/getting his title stripped to atleast getting a match with Brock, was botched as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People seem to forget that no one gave a shit about DB when he was just a super duper wrestler who did super duper wrestler things. His match with Barrett at Summerslam 2011 was the second best match of the show, but that crowd was fucking dead. While best match in Sheamus vs Mark Henry was having the crowd shit bricks cheering on Sheamus to drag his ass back to the ring.

Pro wrestling is all about characters. If you're fantasy booking involves polite wrestling holds and a ranking system and all that other shit that would 'legitimize' the 'sport' then you really need to find a new tv show to watch. I suggest collegiate amateur wrestling since men in tighty whites and other colors groping each other is your passion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lot of brick walls around here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Team Hell No turned Bryan into a friggin big deal, way bigger than he was before. Without that, he wouldn't have gotten the match with Cena.

We get it, your guy isn't in the match you want him to be, but to make up your own narrative and completely ignore reality tells me that you might need some time away from wrestling. Relax, it's just a show.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're fantasy booking involves polite wrestling holds and a ranking system and all that other shit that would 'legitimize' the 'sport' then you really need to find a new tv show to watch.

 

I have found a new show to watch and in 2015, I've watched less wrestling than ever before. I don't even think I've seen a full non-NXT WWE show this year. Is this what this NXT 2009-WM 2014 Daniel Bryan build was supposed to accomplish?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...