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Wrestlemania XXXI

Matt D

By Matt D
in WWE PROGRAMMING

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tbarrie

tbarrie

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- When he got hot, they tried to turn him heel and make him yell NO, instead of YES. They did this for months on end for no real reason.

He did turn heel. And it got him more over. His run with AJ was fantastic. YES was a face chant, NOs got him heel heat. No different than Angle and the "You suck" chants. A device to get heat

 

You're both misremembering. The "YES" thing started when he was a heel. After he'd found a sneaky way to worm out with the title, he'd celebrate with the "YES" chant like he'd just won a major victory. Switching to "NO" when it caught on with the fans was a logical move for the character at the time.

 

But thanks for dismantling rzombie's batshittery point by point, somebody had to.

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rzombie1988

rzombie1988

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- When he got hot, they tried to turn him heel and make him yell NO, instead of YES. They did this for months on end for no real reason.

He did turn heel. And it got him more over. His run with AJ was fantastic. YES was a face chant, NOs got him heel heat. No different than Angle and the "You suck" chants. A device to get heat

 

You're both misremembering. The "YES" thing started when he was a heel. After he'd found a sneaky way to worm out with the title, he'd celebrate with the "YES" chant like he'd just won a major victory. Switching to "NO" when it caught on with the fans was a logical move for the character at the time.

 

But thanks for dismantling rzombie's batshittery point by point, somebody had to.

 

I hope the two of you never book a wrestling promotion. It would make Russo look like Baba.

 

Way to throw an opinion out there without any facts behind it.

 

If you guys really want to believe that DB being called names from day one, losing matches and getting beatdowns was apart of some long term plan from NXT 2009 for DB to win the title at Mania(which would also mean Batista was brought in solely to win the Rumble and job at Mania), feel free. But it's already been pointed out by Dave and and freaking Daniel Bryan himself that it isn't true. DB confirmed that he wasn't supposed to win the title at Mania and WWE's line-ups for Fastlane confirmed that he wasn't supposed to be even close to a title match. I have no idea how you can stick with your side knowing all of that.

 

But yet I'm the one posting "batshittery".

 

If getting people over in 2015 is calling the names, having them lose, pointing out their flaws to everyone, pushing others ahead of them and beating them down weekly, then I'm doing myself a favor by tuning out.

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JCM

JCM

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At this point I'll just be glad when Mania's over. The build has been terrible, but there could be a few gems on the show. Having 7 matches scheduled for a 4 hour show, and two of those matches featuring 50+ year old guys doesn't exactly give me high hopes going in though.

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rzombie1988

rzombie1988

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I don't know if you want all WWE TV to be the "Daniel Bryan is the Greatest Wrestler in History Fan Club Show", but the things you're complaining about is pretty ridiculous. Being a main eventer doesn't mean always coming out on top, and losing to other top stars in competitive matches and getting dissed in promos doesn't means you're buried.

 

 

 

They don't want him as the company ace, but they've NEVER buried him or tried to limit him.

 

BULL. This is honestly the biggest piece of selective memory I've seen on a wrestling board in some time.

 

They've:

- From the first day said he was nothing, pointed out that he has no charisma or mic skills and buried him with The Miz.

 

He got the most high profile angle on the NXT TV show, came back as the special tag partner for Team Cena as a HUGE deal in his first PPV match, then was the only guy who got a big feud with an established guy in the Miz while the Nexus guys all got downsized. He was put down by heels, that's what heels do. I don't know if you want every feud with Daniel Bryan to be his opponent saying "you're the greatest, I'm not worthy".

 

- Called him a geek, nerd, troll and goat for months on end.

Heels and heel commentators say bad things about faces. It means he's important and the heels are jealous of him/dislike him because of the good he stands for. The unimportant ones either get nothing or get fake compliments for heels to show how full of shit the heels are.

 

- When he got hot, they tried to turn him heel and make him yell NO, instead of YES. They did this for months on end for no real reason.

He did turn heel. And it got him more over. His run with AJ was fantastic. YES was a face chant, NOs got him heel heat. No different than Angle and the "You suck" chants. A device to get heat

 

- They pushed him as the weak link in a team with KANE.

 

As part of a redemption angle that ended with him being the first worker to get a fall over the unstoppable Shield.

 

- The whole Team Hell No storyline. Hugfests, seeing psychiatrists, getting in arguments at fast food restaurants then having Kane hunt him like he was Jason and have him run.

 

Which all got super over and clearly had alot of time put into them.

 

- Despite having multiple matches with main eventers like Orton and others, they said he wasn't in their league.

 

And then he BEAT them. Heels said it, he proved them wrong.

 

- They buried him for months against the Authority. DB got laid out and beaten down so many times that I thought I was watching reruns.

He was the main protagonist to the biggest heel stable. He got outnumbered, that's the whole point of former stables, to outnumber people. Whenever he got any Authority member one of one fairly, he won.

 

- They tried to turn him heel again with the Wyatt Family for no reason whatsoever.

They did it for like two weeks. It was clearly planned to be a faux turn, and the ending got a ridiculous pop. It's an angle they run all the time, see Orton/Authority, Punk/New Breed, the face joins the heel group to gain their trust and secrets and then beats them up. Its the best way to get past a stable leader's lackeys.

 

- They've produced some of the worst merchandise ever for him.

 

They make terrible merch for everybody ever not named Punk or Edge.

 

- They ruined two Royal Rumble's consecutively so he didn't win and did everything in their power to try to kill the heat.

 

They put him over top heel Seth Rollins one week later in 2015, and he was selling a Sister Abigail to the guard-rail in 2014. Using DB to put over a guy they clearly see as future #1 heel in Bray isn't burying him, and if they wanted to kill his heat after, they'd make what he does unimportant or just keep him off tv.

 

- They've ignored all of his popularity in his hometown and didn't even mention his various things with celebrities and the parade.

 

They held the 2013 Slammy award in Washington just cause DB was winning Superstar of the Year

 

- They have the easiest storyline ever in a face DB trying to get the belt back that he never lost against Brock and ignore it. They then have him lose to Big Daddy Cool Reigns and verbally suck him off.

 

Cause they're building Reigns. Losing to Reigns in a 30 minute match isn't a burial, it's losing to your equal. They treated him as Reigns' equal throughout and after the feud, he just couldn't stop the man on a mission on that night. They did stuff like that with Hart and Foley all the time, when you're at that bulletproof level you can take a loss or two.

 

- They then strap him in a WM ladder match with other people they aren't pushing, don't want to push, will never push and don't know what to do with.

 

Those people are in the Andre the Giant Memorial match. The IC Title match is for "guys that are important that they stay over, but we can't all give one on one matches (and R-Truth)". And they've made DB the centre of the match and compared him going for the belt to guys like Savage and Steamboat and mentioned that winning would mean HE'S HELD EVERY BELT IN THE COMPANY IN UNDER 5 YEARS.

 

Compare all this with way Roman Reigns has been booked in the last year and tell me he wasn't being buried. Bullshit.

 

He's not Roman. Roman needs to be protected for his character's aura. DB's character is about overcoming odds. He can't overcome shit if he's never struggling or nevr being mistreated. Quite frankly, Roman needs more  stuf to overcome if he wants to get over like Bryan.

 

I've watched a lot of wrestling in my day and don't remember anyone else having to go through a fraction of what he's had to go through. You know the best part? He made almost all of it work, got more over no matter what crap they gave him and it's still not good enough!

 

You don't remember because you've haven't seen a superstar come in and EVERY angle he's ever been in has been treated as important like Bryan for such an extended period since Taker or Brock. He's never once been a "we have nothing for you, you're gonna be off tv for a while guy" or "treading water on Superstars guy" or a "feud that's totally unimportant with no story behind it guy". Every thing they do with Bryan has a plan behind it and ends with him more over. That can happen once or twice for everybody, but with Bryan it's clear it's be design, otherwhile they'd Zack Ryder him and  move on. He doesn't win every match and doesn't need to, his character development goes much deeper than "guy who wins all the time". But they've invested a shitload in him in terms of tv time and big moments/wins, and I don't what else you need to be a main eventer unless main eventer is only if you're THE MAN all the time ala Cena or Hogan.

 

 

He got the most high profile angle on the NXT TV show, came back as the special tag partner for Team Cena as a HUGE deal in his first PPV match, then was the only guy who got a big feud with an established guy in the Miz while the Nexus guys all got downsized. He was put down by heels, that's what heels do. I don't know if you want every feud with Daniel Bryan to be his opponent saying "you're the greatest, I'm not worthy".

- He didn't win NXT. I suppose he had the best angle, but every angle on that show stunk.

 

Heels and heel commentators say bad things about faces. It means he's important and the heels are jealous of him/dislike him because of the good he stands for. The unimportant ones either get nothing or get fake compliments for heels to show how full of shit the heels are.

- It's one thing to say this guy cheats or isn't a good person, say like with Heenan on Hulk. It would be different for Heenan to say Hulk is a balding old man, who has no wrestling ability whatsoever and has the same match every time out. This is what Cole/Vince were saying about DB. They were ripping him personally, and pointing out specific true flaws that were meant to harm him, not to build up anything(unless you believe them ripping him for years on end was some longterm angle, of which the question then becomes why did they stop when Wrestlemania came around if that's part of the angle?). They also did all this while not acknowledging that he's now rich and is married to a former model, which is not my definition of a nerd or loser.

 

He did turn heel. And it got him more over. His run with AJ was fantastic. YES was a face chant, NOs got him heel heat. No different than Angle and the "You suck" chants. A device to get heat.

- Yes got over. It would have been more over had he been a face. He didn't even officially turn face because he was already a face to most of the fans. Lets also not forget him being made to look like a fool with AJ.

 

As part of a redemption angle that ended with him being the first worker to get a fall over the unstoppable Shield.

- It was a DQ loss for The Shield. DB then lost to them that Sunday at the PPV in a tag match. DB then lost to them(with Kane and Kofi) CLEAN the next week on Raw. Some redemption eh? This wasn't even the main. He then lost again in June 2013 in another 6 man against The Shield.

 

Which all got super over and clearly had alot of time put into them.

- Should DB get the credit for getting something dumb over or should the writers get the credit? If you are putting a ton of time into midard comedy angles instead of main events, you have big big problems.

 

Despite having multiple matches with main eventers like Orton and others, they said he wasn't in their league

- The Shield losses proved that differently and he still was taking losses. He lost to Reigns within two weeks after that in a singles match. He doesn't have to win every match, but you don't see top WWE guys that they want to push losing multiple times over. You don't see Reigns losing like this.

 

He was the main protagonist to the biggest heel stable. He got outnumbered, that's the whole point of former stables, to outnumber people. Whenever he got any Authority member one of one fairly, he won.

- He got destroyed then didn't really get revenge. They then tried to turn him with the Wyatt Family...CM Punk was going to be fighting HHH, NOT DB.

 

Re: Wyatt Family turn:

- Dave said the plan was to go into Mania with this and have him fight Bray. Batista returned and was set up to fight Orton at Mania and Punk was with HHH. Only after plan A didn't work and Punk left did this open the door to get that storyline back. The Wyatt Family and The authority are two different beasts.

 

They make terrible merch for everybody ever not named Punk or Edge.

- His was especially terrible. Shirts about goats and beards? Walmart Clearance Rack. He legit has the worst shirts in WWE history.

 

They held the 2013 Slammy award in Washington just cause DB was winning Superstar of the Year

- This clearly is in the same league of making national headlines and being a big part of a parade.

 

Cause they're building Reigns. Losing to Reigns in a 30 minute match isn't a burial, it's losing to your equal. They treated him as Reigns' equal throughout and after the feud, he just couldn't stop the man on a mission on that night. They did stuff like that with Hart and Foley all the time, when you're at that bulletproof level you can take a loss or two.

- Everyone is bulletproof in WWE because the fans don't care and aren't into most of what is presented. I wouldn't call that a good thing though. DB's not bulletproof as he is not as over as he was a month ago after taking losses. Hart and Foley weren't treated as wimps and losers on TV regularly for years. It's okay to take a loss, but pushing someone as a loser and having them lose does nothing for anyone.

 

He's not Roman. Roman needs to be protected for his character's aura. DB's character is about overcoming odds. He can't overcome shit if he's never struggling or nevr being mistreated. Quite frankly, Roman needs more stuf to overcome if he wants to get over like Bryan.

- Cena's character is about overcoming odds too and he wins all the time...I know who I'd rather be.

 

You don't remember because you've haven't seen a superstar come in and EVERY angle he's ever been in has been treated as important like Bryan for such an extended period since Taker or Brock. He's never once been a "we have nothing for you, you're gonna be off tv for a while guy" or "treading water on Superstars guy" or a "feud that's totally unimportant with no story behind it guy". Every thing they do with Bryan has a plan behind it and ends with him more over. That can happen once or twice for everybody, but with Bryan it's clear it's be design, otherwhile they'd Zack Ryder him and move on. He doesn't win every match and doesn't need to, his character development goes much deeper than "guy who wins all the time". But they've invested a shitload in him in terms of tv time and big moments/wins, and I don't what else you need to be a main eventer unless main eventer is only if you're THE MAN all the time ala Cena or Hogan.

- Every angle has a plan, that's why they book it. All main eventers should have a direction, or else your booking stinks. But most of DB's big angles in the last year have started with a plan and ended up somewhere else. He was supposed to have an angle with the Wyatts and it didn't happen. He wasn't supposed to win the title at Mania, it happened. He wasn't supposed to fight Reigns at Fastlane, it happened. Most real main eventers don't lose and get put down like him on a weekly basis, ever. Rock didn't. Austin didn't. Triple H sure didn't. Taker, no. Brock, no. Batista, no. Orton, no. Cena, no. Face main eventers aren't supposed to regularly lose or else they aren't really main eventers. Kane and Show lose all the time and no one looks at them like real main eventers, same with Dolph and crew. Why have someone who may be able to take it to the next level and instead have them lose constantly?

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JohnnyJ

JohnnyJ

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Regardless of how people feel at Bryan, the fact that Mania is two days away and just about every conversation turns into a debate about Bryan tells you everything you need to know.

 

Where's the buzz?

 

Last night, I was aware that the Network started a rollout of Mania week programming. The same thing I watched almost all of of last year. This year, I'm half watching Grey's Anatomy with my wife.

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JCM

JCM

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The only potential for a big angle I see is the main event. With the recent report that Vince is booking the main event by himself, and isn't taking any input on it I now have a good deal of morbid curiosity how it will all turn out.

 

As for the Bryan talk he's probably going to be the ace of Smackdown. He'll be expected to have the longest matches on just about every show he's on, and elevate the IC belt. Honestly I'm ok with that especially if Lesnar retains they will be looking to Cena and Bryan to elevate the secondary titles which I think will greatly benefit the mid and upper mid card. 

 

Having the two most over guys on the roster, and two of the very best workers in the company hold the secondary belts should be really interesting.

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Craig H

Craig H

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Man, if the word about Vince handling the main event by himself is true, it will be awfully indicative of how out of his goddamn mind he is.

 

Also, WrestleMania is RARELY the stage for launching angles.

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Just Dave

Just Dave

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So, if whichever Uso is hurt is too hurt to go, any chance they'd have Rikishi sub in for him? Might be a nice moment, seeing as how he will have gone in the HOF the night before...

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APO

APO

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Foley was undoubtedly a main eventer and he lost all the time.

He was a heel though for atleast a lot of those Mankind/Dude Love losses. Can't speak on periods later than that.

He only won like three matches that actually mattered as a face from '99 on (RAW and Halftime Heat vs Rock and SummerSlam triple threat with Austin and HHH). Outside of Rock-N-Sock and building up Cactus Jack for the HHH matches, he wasn't doing a whole lot of winning back then.

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Ace

Ace

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So, if whichever Uso is hurt is too hurt to go, any chance they'd have Rikishi sub in for him? Might be a nice moment, seeing as how he will have gone in the HOF the night before...

 

I doubt he'd be medically cleared.

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Burgundy LaRue

Burgundy LaRue

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Man, if the word about Vince handling the main event by himself is true, it will be awfully indicative of how out of his goddamn mind he is.

 

Also, WrestleMania is RARELY the stage for launching angles.

 

Supposedly, Vince may be listening to HHH and Heyman regarding the main event.

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rzombie1988

rzombie1988

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Foley was undoubtedly a main eventer and he lost all the time.

He was a heel though for atleast a lot of those Mankind/Dude Love losses. Can't speak on periods later than that.

He only won like three matches that actually mattered as a face from '99 on (RAW and Halftime Heat vs Rock and SummerSlam triple threat with Austin and HHH). Outside of Rock-N-Sock and building up Cactus Jack for the HHH matches, he wasn't doing a whole lot of winning back then.

 

As I said, I can't really speak on anything past his Mankind/Dude Love era stuff.

 

Clearly, Foley losing all the time was the way to go though, right? Foley seemed at best #4-#5, not #2-#3 like Daniel Bryan.

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