AUGUST WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[Ace]

Who was Fred Kryptonite on the old board? There's no way someone just signed up for the new board with that much derp power behind him.

Victator.

[cool arrow]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, that explains it.

[Kaptain Kayfabe]

First of all, the Swagger lovefest from Fred Kyrptonite is a little disturbing. I saw one of Swaggers first half dozen or so pro matches back in the day and you could tell then he had something special, more so than a lot of OVW guys, but not something that screamed "superstar." I'd say overall he is a disappointment because he could have been the next Angle - and really, despite getting a bigger push, he is not even the next Shelton Benjamin. The role he is in now is fine for him - mid card guy who can challenge for a belt and be credible (maybe even get a run with the US title) but is never going to be a consistent main eventer. And there's nothing wrong with that!

[Brody]

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/kayfabe-lies-and-alibis-wwf-1995-timeline-wnash-part-2/#.UhygGj8iy2APart two of Nash's 1995 WWF recollections - Plus I fantasy book some free agents from SMW and ECW that could have spiced up this lack luster year!

[ultimoDANK]

JRV beat me to it but I think Swagger is a guy who would excel in Japan.

[cool arrow]

JRV beat me to it but I think Swagger is a guy who would excel in Japan.

 

He's pretty much tailor-made for IGF.

[ultimoDANK]

Shit he'd have been great in the G1. I'd swap him for Benjamin any day.

Anyways saw that pic of Punk in front of the Breaking Bad house. He better never call anyone a "mark" as he's a mark for like 20 different things.

[JRGoldman]

What makes wrestlers get over and stay over is an ability to put forth who they are, or at the very least who they are supposed to be. Austin did it, Flair did it, Punk does it right now. They do it through promos, ring work, and many times through an innate charisma or look.

 

The only time I felt like I learned who Swagger is was from a TMZ report.  

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

ECW Swagger showed the potential to be one of the biggest stars in the business.  I have no idea where all that potential went.  they tried like 4 times with him but it will not click.  His best bet was the World title run which was doomed with trrrble booking.  

[Johnny Sorrow]

The Swaggie is still delicious, though.

[Stevie Ray Von Erich]

Can we talk about Christian for a minute?

 

Christian is a guy who obviously knows how to structure a match, has excellent babyface offense, and has consistently very good matches. But if last night's Raw is any indication, he is not at all over with the crowd. The "One More Match" catchphrase they seem to be sticking to him came out of a whinny heel run and trying to use it as a face catchphrase seems silly. Like, every time the commentary mentioned his challenging for the WHC at SummerSlam they brought it up and I thought it was weird because that never struck me as being over with the crowd at all, and certainly not in the context they were trying to use it in.

 

Basically, unless I'm way off with my assessment of the indifference facing Christian's entrance most weeks, I think his character is broken, and badly. What does he at all stand for? Most WWE superstars have at least an elevator pitch they can use to describe their character. Cena NEVER gives up. Ziggler is a showoff. Khali is a gigantic Indian who loves to dance. There's a least a perspective, however weak it maybe, for the fans to grasp when the character performs. But I don't think Christian has that. Is his gimmick that he's Edge's friend? That he has peeps he constantly must search out in the audience?

 

Besides his admittedly high level ring-work, Christian is ill-equipped to get over in his current run. And that is really disappointing. He should be more than terrible t-shirts. Like, give him something to work with at all as far as character motivation or even a reason to be there. The stuff with Orton last night was a nice move in that direction, but a handful of other guys on the roster are involved in that storyline in exactly the same way and deeper (Ziggler, Henry, Show, Miz).

This isn't about giving Christian a feud or a story arc, or even more tv time. It's about giving Christian a discernible character.

[Matt D]

Can we talk about Christian for a minute?

 

Christian is a guy who obviously knows how to structure a match, has excellent babyface offense, and has consistently very good matches. But if last night's Raw is any indication, he is not at all over with the crowd. The "One More Match" catchphrase they seem to be sticking to him came out of a whinny heel run and trying to use it as a face catchphrase seems silly. Like, every time the commentary mentioned his challenging for the WHC at SummerSlam they brought it up and I thought it was weird because that never struck me as being over with the crowd at all, and certainly not in the context they were trying to use it in.

 

Basically, unless I'm way off with my assessment of the indifference facing Christian's entrance most weeks, I think his character is broken, and badly. What does he at all stand for? Most WWE superstars have at least an elevator pitch they can use to describe their character. Cena NEVER gives up. Ziggler is a showoff. Khali is a gigantic Indian who loves to dance. There's a least a perspective, however weak it maybe, for the fans to grasp when the character performs. But I don't think Christian has that. Is his gimmick that he's Edge's friend? That he has peeps he constantly must search out in the audience?

 

Besides his admittedly high level ring-work, Christian is ill-equipped to get over in his current run. And that is really disappointing. He should be more than terrible t-shirts. Like, give him something to work with at all as far as character motivation or even a reason to be there. The stuff with Orton last night was a nice move in that direction, but a handful of other guys on the roster are involved in that storyline in exactly the same way and deeper (Ziggler, Henry, Show, Miz).

This isn't about giving Christian a feud or a story arc, or even more tv time. It's about giving Christian a discernible character.

 

The way they were packaging him a few months ago was that he was at the end of his run and holding on. That he was sort of a late-era Tommy Dreamer but representing the attitude era instead of ECW. He was the life-long fan who become the career long journeyman and made it to the top of the ladder once and just needs that one more chance to make it there again. Obviously he had that chance and failed so, now I guess he's the journeyman desperately trying to stay relevant or something. 

[ultimoDANK]

I think he's super solid in the ring and a great guy to work with younger wrestlers. I just don't buy him as a main event player. US title, IC title ok but not either hvyweight belt. Honestly he's another guy I'd like to see in a regular tag team. Maybe bring back Matt Hardy and have them form team veteran mutual respect.

[JohnnyJ]

I haven't been paying much attention to his entrance pops but the crowds are consistently into all of his matches. That's more than what can be said about most wrestlers.  And I wouldn't take too much stock in who some of these crowds pop for. Last night half the Phoenix crowd popped pretty hard for Orton when he first came out and the cameras had to pan away and turn down the volume.

[Cristobal]

Pair Christian with a young guy they want to get some exposure (Justin Gabriel comes to mind) and have them feud with Regal/Barrett as a pair of dueling mentor/mentees.

[caley]

Can we talk about Christian for a minute?

 

Christian is a guy who obviously knows how to structure a match, has excellent babyface offense, and has consistently very good matches. But if last night's Raw is any indication, he is not at all over with the crowd. The "One More Match" catchphrase they seem to be sticking to him came out of a whinny heel run and trying to use it as a face catchphrase seems silly. Like, every time the commentary mentioned his challenging for the WHC at SummerSlam they brought it up and I thought it was weird because that never struck me as being over with the crowd at all, and certainly not in the context they were trying to use it in.

 

Basically, unless I'm way off with my assessment of the indifference facing Christian's entrance most weeks, I think his character is broken, and badly. What does he at all stand for? Most WWE superstars have at least an elevator pitch they can use to describe their character. Cena NEVER gives up. Ziggler is a showoff. Khali is a gigantic Indian who loves to dance. There's a least a perspective, however weak it maybe, for the fans to grasp when the character performs. But I don't think Christian has that. Is his gimmick that he's Edge's friend? That he has peeps he constantly must search out in the audience?

 

Besides his admittedly high level ring-work, Christian is ill-equipped to get over in his current run. And that is really disappointing. He should be more than terrible t-shirts. Like, give him something to work with at all as far as character motivation or even a reason to be there. The stuff with Orton last night was a nice move in that direction, but a handful of other guys on the roster are involved in that storyline in exactly the same way and deeper (Ziggler, Henry, Show, Miz).

This isn't about giving Christian a feud or a story arc, or even more tv time. It's about giving Christian a discernible character.

I think the saddest thing I've seen in recent weeks was a Christian match (I forget which one) where he started his comeback and went "Spear! Spear! Spear!" and the crowd absolutely refused to join in, so instead it was just Christian repeating "Spear! Spear! Spear!" over and over again to himself, like he'd lost his mind and was trying to make sense of the world.

 

BTW, how many WWE guys/gals use the spear as a signature move and/or finisher: there's Christian, Big Show, Roman Reigns, Kaitlyn, with Edge, Goldberg, Rhyno as WWE alumni who used the Spear regularly.  Are there more?

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

Bobby Lashley??

[Jiji]

That running snuggle that Batista did was supposed to be a spear, I believe.

[Skelemania]

I do not speak or read Japanese. Can anyone give me the CliffsNotes version of what the 1/100 thing with Hiroshi Tanahashi is all about? Would be appreciated.

[Bustronaut]

 

I think the saddest thing I've seen in recent weeks was a Christian match (I forget which one) where he started his comeback and went "Spear! Spear! Spear!" and the crowd absolutely refused to join in, so instead it was just Christian repeating "Spear! Spear! Spear!" over and over again to himself, like he'd lost his mind and was trying to make sense of the world.

 

This reminds me of a house show I went to when Goldust was using the "Shattered Dreams" kick to the crotch.  He went through the convoluted set-up, walked over to the opposite corner and raised his hands to get a cheer of anticipation, only to be met by silence.  He did it a few more times, getting angrier and yelling "COME ON!" to get some kind of reaction, then just left to a countout, head hanging sadly.  I think he was gone a few weeks later.

[Matt D]

 

 

I think the saddest thing I've seen in recent weeks was a Christian match (I forget which one) where he started his comeback and went "Spear! Spear! Spear!" and the crowd absolutely refused to join in, so instead it was just Christian repeating "Spear! Spear! Spear!" over and over again to himself, like he'd lost his mind and was trying to make sense of the world.

 

This reminds me of a house show I went to when Goldust was using the "Shattered Dreams" kick to the crotch.  He went through the convoluted set-up, walked over to the opposite corner and raised his hands to get a cheer of anticipation, only to be met by silence.  He did it a few more times, getting angrier and yelling "COME ON!" to get some kind of reaction, then just left to a countout, head hanging sadly.  I think he was gone a few weeks later.

 

Obviously you weren't cheering loud enough for Dustin. For shame, Zeidler.

[Greggulator]

Christian just had a super hot match against ADR on a pay-per-view. And another hot match against Randy last night. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Christian's good and has a really solid few weeks ahead of him as the upper mid-card face who will lose to guys in The Shield or whoever.This thread is weird between this and people upset about the departure of the fairly worthless Ted DiBiase Jr. It's not like Ted Jr. ever showed anything save for the pop he got that one time he contemplated hurting Orton who attacked his dad.

 

The Legacy stuff was the worst, other than when Orton started punting the McMahon family. I remember they had Cody and Ted come out to co-announce a match once and they literally said nothing. Those guys were total stiffs.I like Cody now but he was terrible up until he had that "Dashing" promo. Ted was brutal his entire run. He legitimately had the easiest gimmick ever to get over: Spoiled, monied-class son with a freeloader, obnoxious Eurotrash girlfriend. It seriously does not get easier. But he was terrible with it. Him looking like a weenie against Randy had nothing to do with his charisma suck

[Big Fresh]

I haven't been paying much attention to his entrance pops but the crowds are consistently into all of his matches. That's more than what can be said about most wrestlers. And I wouldn't take too much stock in who some of these crowds pop for. Last night half the Phoenix crowd popped pretty hard for Orton when he first came out and the cameras had to pan away and turn down the volume.

Brings up a question I had: are they gonna change Orton's music? Because that song is always gonna get a pop.

[PuroresuFan]

Before Christian got hurt, I was hoping that he would be booked to feud with Cesaro over the US Title. I think Christian chasing Cesaro, winning the title from him and then losing it to Cesaro at WrestleMania would have established Cesaro as a solid mid-card act. After that, Cesaro could have been put into a program with Jericho which would help people see him as a guy that could have a World title run.

[Craig H]

I may have been dreaming, but I swear two of these pages featured griping about Swagger's treatment like he was Benoit back in '98. Swagger is fucking awful. He looks and sounds like a doofus, is so stiff when he's moving around, his offense doesn't look all that credible for his size and at the same time, he bumps around like he should weigh about 100 lbs. more than he does. I'd have an easier time buying Swagger if he was fatter or gassed up, but as it is, he's just super awkward. If I was a geneticist though, I would somehow combine Swagger's height, gas tank, and smarmy attitude with Ryback's bulk, power move set, and pink eye.