Controversial movie/TV opinions

[The Comedian]

My favorite "White person saves ghetto school" movie is The Substitute. Hell, I think Tom Berenger actually got more people killed, but I've loved that movie since it came out in 96.

 

The Substitute is great. It's basically the "white person saves ghetto school" genre crossed with the "criminals run afoul of secret badass" (ie. The Equalizer, Under Siege, etc.) genre.

[Craig H]

Also, his name is Lester.

[Jingus]

Peter's thing revolved around doing something highly illegal that would get you sent to federal prison for several years. That's worse than regressing. AB was at least realistic at the end when Kevin Spacey got shot. In real life, Peter and his friends would've gotten terminated and arrested in a jiffy.

 

Office Space is basically a movie to embolden middle class white people stuck in their lame studio apartment.

 

No, dude.  Their situations were completely different.  Kevin Spacey was in an entitled position that Peter would've KILLED for; a great-paying executive job, a big beautiful house, a gorgeous wife and a not-that-terrible daughter.  He already should've been happy, and was rebelling against... what?!  The pettiest of first-world annoyances.  Peter was stuck in a shitty go-nowhere low-paying soul-killing cubicle job where he was constantly harassed and bullied by a conga line of idiot bosses who were way stupider than himself and should never have been giving him orders in the first place.  Yeah, he tried to get even by stealing from the company; but 1.he immediately fucked it up, realized it was a bad idea and tried to repent, and his girlfriend immediately called him on his bullshit and broke up with him over his idiocy.  AND 2.How is that any worse than Spacey's character blackmailing his boss and extorting a huge sum of unearned cash out of him with a threat of a false sexual harassment charge?  Spacey was NEVER called out on the unethical nature of that horseshit, it was presented as a completely righteous and laudable act, and he never faced one little bit of consequence over it.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

 

Except that Spacey's character's "make him happy" was working a drive through window, smoking pot, and lifting weights to make him more appealing so he can attempt to fuck his teenage daughter's friend. I'd call that regressing.

Peter got out of his dead end career he hated, found something he found personally worthwhile that he could live off of, and ended up in a healthy relationship with a girl that valued him.

Peter's thing revolved around doing something highly illegal that would get you sent to federal prison for several years. That's worse than regressing. AB was at least realistic at the end when Kevin Spacey got shot. In real life, Peter and his friends would've gotten terminated and arrested in a jiffy.

Office Space is basically a movie to embolden middle class white people stuck in their lame studio apartment.

Except didn't Peter have a change of heart at the end, was resolved to his possible fate of prison, turned himself in (returning the money in the process) - minus that dive to the door for comic relief - and, finding that he was saved for his nobler decision, puts himself in a position to live happier where he doesn't become tempted by those demons in the future? (Hint: that's not really a question.)\

 

 

Peter's fate rested on some Being There luck bullshit that played out. In real life, his trajectory plays out like Tamala Jones' character in Up in the Air. He finds a bridge and jumps off it after John C. McGinley and the other guy fires him. I have to believe that there is some hot woman who works at a ripoff T.G.I. Fridays (who most likely wouldn't work there in the first place) is a big enough a person to look past him being a bigger loser than she is. It's incredibly dumb.

[nate]

Except that Spacey's character's "make him happy" was working a drive through window, smoking pot, and lifting weights to make him more appealing so he can attempt to fuck his teenage daughter's friend. I'd call that regressing.

Peter got out of his dead end career he hated, found something he found personally worthwhile that he could live off of, and ended up in a healthy relationship with a girl that valued him.

Peter's thing revolved around doing something highly illegal that would get you sent to federal prison for several years. That's worse than regressing. AB was at least realistic at the end when Kevin Spacey got shot. In real life, Peter and his friends would've gotten terminated and arrested in a jiffy.

Office Space is basically a movie to embolden middle class white people stuck in their lame studio apartment.

Except didn't Peter have a change of heart at the end, was resolved to his possible fate of prison, turned himself in (returning the money in the process) - minus that dive to the door for comic relief - and, finding that he was saved for his nobler decision, puts himself in a position to live happier where he doesn't become tempted by those demons in the future? (Hint: that's not really a question.)\

Peter's fate rested on some Being There luck bullshit that played out. In real life, his trajectory plays out like Tamala Jones' character in Up in the Air. He finds a bridge and jumps off it after John C. McGinley and the other guy fires him. I have to believe that there is some hot woman who works at a ripoff T.G.I. Fridays (who most likely wouldn't work there in the first place) is a big enough a person to look past him being a bigger loser than she is. It's incredibly dumb.

There are hot girls that work in some shitty places. Some girls would see Peter as confident and riddled with far greater potential to not only make them happy but themselves as well.

Plus, it's a comedy, which brings along certain tropes that you seem to be using to argue that AB is a superior window of the secret sorrows of everyday people. Peter changed his fate for the better; Lester wallowed in his pathetic life decisions like a smiling little piggy and dared everyone to follow his willful shrugging off of responsibilities.

I mean, how can Peter's improvement be made a negative in comparison to a guy whose behaviors were in no small part driven by the desire to fuck a high school cheerleader? And on that note, how is OS' Joanna any more or less "there" than Mena Suvari?

[nate]

Also, Peter never gets fired. Also, you can't even use his success as failing upward against him, because he was being pushed into promotions that he was not interested in taking.

It's not money that makes you happy in your job, but the work that you do that makes your job worth it; that's a real philosophy. Pretty fucking mature for a guy like Peter.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

 

 

 

Except that Spacey's character's "make him happy" was working a drive through window, smoking pot, and lifting weights to make him more appealing so he can attempt to fuck his teenage daughter's friend. I'd call that regressing.

Peter got out of his dead end career he hated, found something he found personally worthwhile that he could live off of, and ended up in a healthy relationship with a girl that valued him.

Peter's thing revolved around doing something highly illegal that would get you sent to federal prison for several years. That's worse than regressing. AB was at least realistic at the end when Kevin Spacey got shot. In real life, Peter and his friends would've gotten terminated and arrested in a jiffy.

Office Space is basically a movie to embolden middle class white people stuck in their lame studio apartment.

Except didn't Peter have a change of heart at the end, was resolved to his possible fate of prison, turned himself in (returning the money in the process) - minus that dive to the door for comic relief - and, finding that he was saved for his nobler decision, puts himself in a position to live happier where he doesn't become tempted by those demons in the future? (Hint: that's not really a question.)\

Peter's fate rested on some Being There luck bullshit that played out. In real life, his trajectory plays out like Tamala Jones' character in Up in the Air. He finds a bridge and jumps off it after John C. McGinley and the other guy fires him. I have to believe that there is some hot woman who works at a ripoff T.G.I. Fridays (who most likely wouldn't work there in the first place) is a big enough a person to look past him being a bigger loser than she is. It's incredibly dumb.

There are hot girls that work in some shitty places. Some girls would see Peter as confident and riddled with far greater potential to not only make them happy but themselves as well.

 

 

Sure. And they all look like Jennifer Aniston.

 

Also, Peter never gets fired. Also, you can't even use his success as failing upward against him, because he was being pushed into promotions that he was not interested in taking.

It's not money that makes you happy in your job, but the work that you do that makes your job worth it; that's a real philosophy. Pretty fucking mature for a guy like Peter.

 

 

No, I am saying that he would have been fired like George Clooney and the blonde chick did to Tamala Jones. They would have never went to that "Well...Peter" bullshit. Although Up in the Air veers into bullshit territory when George Clooney does that Jedi Mind Trick thing by telling the one guy he should be a chef after he breaks down in front of him.

 

My argument isn't Peter's philosophy. It's the road to his philosophy. Sure part of it is comedy, but most of it is silly, out-of-left field shit to even derive a philosophical point from. American Beauty has that same goofiness but in a higher tax bracket.

[nate]

Okay, when did Up in the Air enter into this?

Some look better than Aniston, actually.

And also, I work for a facility that will take several months to fire a person, for infractions all but fucking or kiling a client. And probably even then they'd take their time doing it. The shit that seems for you to be so out of left field in OS, it really isn't all that farfetched, even in that particular combination.

[Craig H]

People forget about how much of a dead end Peter's job was. The soul purpose of his company was updating software to prevent a Y2K crash. I also believe in the movie he says he has no idea what would happen after 2000. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Okay, when did Up in the Air enter into this?

And also, I work for a facility that will take several months to fire a person, for infractions all but fucking or kiling a client. And probably even then they'd take their time doing it. The shit that seems for you to be so out of left field in OS, it really isn't all that farfetched, even in that particular combination.

 

Up in the Air comes in with how they were handling layoffs, meetings, and such. The promotion thing, if it wasn't dressed up as comedy, would never go down like that.

 

No, I am not talking that being out-of-left field specifcally. I am talking about HIS WHOLE JOURNEY through this wild wacky world of being the man he wants to be. People just look at Office Space as a sacred cow because they can identify on that level of being a loser. In real life, the Bolton character would have soared past Peter on the success scale. Not on some Jordan Belfort or Charlie Sheen in Wall Street level, but on another level. You're telling me Michael and the Indian guy can steal funds from the company, but Michael's job requires him to do almost the same monotonous bullshit Peter is doing. Come on.

[nate]

The Bolton character was too insecure, too passive, and too maladjusted to surpass Peter.

And I don't think it's people identifying with being any kind of loser, but rather people can certainly identify with being in those shitty environments. Lester got fired for not surpassing the others in his field, but we're supposed to be happy for him because the most work he did that fiscal year in an attempt to keep his income was that 5 min span where he decides to opt for some extortion of his boss? We just talked about Tony Montana being a scumbag; Lester is barely better than the white collar equivalent then.

[Elsalvajeloco]

The Bolton character was too insecure, too passive, and too maladjusted to surpass Peter.

And I don't think it's people identifying with being any kind of loser, but rather people can certainly identify with being in those shitty environments

 

AKA a loser.

 

I am not saying Bolton character didn't have his faults. I am saying that a guy working at McDonalds on fries with a Master's is overqualified. The guy who works there with a postgraduate degree and KNOWS he can steal from them in that fashion without getting caught mostly likely doesn't fill out the application to begin with.

[nate]

Therefore, Lester was the bigger loser.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Lester went there because he wanted to. The job he took wasn't a part of his middle class resentment movement. Bolton was there because the writing was lazy and they didn't take that into account.

[Niners Fan in CT]

One of the best "secret badass" movies is Under Siege. HE'S A FUCKING COOK?!  Busey and Tommy Lee Jones are so fucking awesome in that shit.

[Elsalvajeloco]

CASEY FUCKING RYBACK?!?!?!?!

[nate]

When did this go from Peter vs. Lester to Michael vs. Lester? I feel like every time I make a decent point, the topic gets shifted.

American Beauty was just terrible. Uneven narrative, not one single redeemable character, and a protagonist who spends the entire film being a 40-something year old guy wishing he was a teenager (or, at least, fucking a teenager) because life of priveleged white guys in the suburbs sure am teh hard sometimes frownyface.

At least, in the sense of synchronicity, both Peter & Lester ended up with what they deserved.

[Elsalvajeloco]

When did this go from Peter vs. Lester to Michael vs. Lester? I feel like every time I make a decent point, the topic gets shifted.

 

Most likely because you didn't make a point.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I didn't love American Beauty at all but it's a pretty realistic take on privileged middle aged white guy whining. We've all encountered people like this.

[nate]

I didn't love American Beauty at all but it's a pretty realistic take on middle aged white guy whining.

THAT was my point. I will drop the mic now.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I am pretty sure someone w/ a rags-to-riches story like Mark Cuban would love to not deal with headache of running an organization and go back to doing shit with no level of responsibility at all. Who wouldn't love to bang some young broad and mentor their neighbor's weird kid carrying around a bag? How do you think all these escorts make so much money?

 

Office Space goes into the same realm but catering towards losers in cubicles instead.

[Brian Fowler]

I think Jingus touched on this up above, but putting the entire plot/character/etc of American Beauty aside, it's a fucking drop dead gorgeous movie.  Just impeccably shot by Mendes and the late and lamented Conrad Hall.  

 

I haven't seen Beauty since it was still fairly new, but I vividly remember seeing it at the Ideal Theater in Clare, Michigan with my older sister, about half full, and the two of us being the only two people laughing at the movie.  We laughed constantly throughout it, and we got a bunch of weird looks when as we were leaving.  Jillian looked at me and said "it was a comedy, right?"  I certainly thought so as well, but we were the only two people there who did, apparently.

 

Anyway, I liked it then, can't say how I'd feel about it now.

 

I also like Office Space though, so, hey, whatever.

[username]

American Beauty also "cheated" a tad bit by changing its opening apparently rather late in its overall development.  It was supposed to start with the two kids being convicted for Lester's murder which would likely frame Lester's journey and final thoughts in a much harsher light overall.

[BrianS81177]

Here's a couple:

 

I liked the X-Files a LOT better when Robert Patrick replaced Duchovny.

 

Also, Scrubs got a lot better as they used Zach Braff less and less.

[Guest The Magnificent 7]

American Beauty is crap on so many levels, most of them covered already.  The Colonel character is a joke of a character, a right wing homophobe who served in the marines who collects nazi plates, beats his kid, and has repressed homosexual feelings himself. 

 

I just can't take movies seriously that have such lazily written characters as props like that.