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MONSTROUS REGIMENT by Terry Pratchett


jaedmc

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I'm about 200 pages into this and despite it having a major mark against it via being the kind of fantasy that always turns me off (we have zombies and trolls and vampires all working together along with a werewolf, some imps, etc.) it's actually been pretty okay beyond that.  I don't really have much to say yet as I'm not even quite sure what it is building to, but so far so good.

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Of the later era Pratchett books, I'd put this at second best behind Nation.

Never read that one.  Is it one of his books that fell into the purgatory of Young Fiction?

 

And I'll provide content with a bigass writeup, as soon as I FIND my copy of the book... ain't that ironic?

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I'm trying to think of how to discuss this book without my entire post being one long string of spoiler tags.  Most of Pratchett's books, even though they often take the narrative shape of a mystery, aren't nearly so difficult to discuss in front of people who haven't read it and not basically ruin the entire experience for them.  SO many surprises...

 

 

being the kind of fantasy that always turns me off (we have zombies and trolls and vampires all working together along with a werewolf, some imps, etc.)

Why do you hate that kind of fantasy?  I ask because I'm writing some comedic stories now which are EXACTLY that type of fantasy (albeit with more steampunk and Gothic influence, which indeed Pratchett does hit up but just not very much in this one), and I'd give anything for a non-fan to give some detailed reasons why they dislike that sort of thing.  I'm trying to make it work for everybody, regardless of genre preferences.  

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The thing is I don't know that there is a real reason beyond "I don't like it".  This fortunately lacks elves which is probably the thing most likely to get me to walk away from something (I've not read or looked at one LOTR related thing ever and those have been recommended... many times over the years) so that helps.  Zombies I was originally fine with but after the past several years I could probably due without seeing a zombie anything for the next decade or so; fortunately again this book's portrayal of them is very different and I view as a positive.

 

It may just be that I've seen these notable... archetypes or creatures my whole life, the vast majority of the time with them keeping to some rigid genre standard despite them being fictional and hence capable of being anything.  I loved American Gods and enjoyed some of Gaiman's other work but he seems to touch on... I don't want to say a different class of fictional characters but ones that read as fresher to me.

 

And to be fair to Monstrous Regiment I have mostly enjoyed what Pratchett has done with those characters.  Igor as mentioned is a very different take on a zombie, Maladict and his whole black ribbon "deal" while likely done before is far from cliched and... truthfully I generally forget the troll is around until it actually shows up.

 

So hey, I guess my one person answer is that your best bet is to do something with these archetypes that doesn't lean much at all on the expected, perhaps overused aspects that one initially thinks of when they hear the term.  As always I caution against taking what I like or think as something that speaks for others as I like and dislike some pretty random stuff from time to time.

 

On the book itself I came down with a bit of a head cold this week so my progress has slowed dramatically.  I'm hoping it clears up in the next few days otherwise I might not be able to make much progress on it until next weekend.

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Pratchett is the only fiction writer I ever read consistently. If you hate elves try Lords and Ladies :). I got into Pratchett by reading Good Omens(still my favorite novel btw), and was hooked, but it took me a while to get into disc world for whatever reason.  The only discworld I didn't like was the early Rincewind ones, and those are still pretty good. Haven't read Nation or any other non discworld book, because a) I usually am deep into a history book, and b) I tend to boycott any non discworld pratchett book just because I want him to write discworld instead. Really silly I know. Haven't read the newest one yet. . . 

 

FUCK alzheimer's btw. . .

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Thank you, Username; that's EXACTLY the response I needed to hear, seriously.  I will say though: Igor isn't a zombie.  In this world, Igors are a bunch of practically identical hunchbacked scientists/servants/surgeons/basically able to do Frankenstein shit.  They are alive.  

 

Also, it's funny you mentioned elves.  What would you say to one particular elf: who has been kicked out of her tribe, sent on a snipe-hunt mission to basically get rid of her, and winds up in a bizarre fantasy/steampunk city where all the usual cliches do show up, but play themselves out in a different manner, and then she happens to fall into a dysfunctional partnership with a cranky gunslinging alcoholic vampire lesbian?  Cuz, that;s the world I'm trying to put together with a few stories I've been struggling to write.  

 

 

Pratchett is the only fiction writer I ever read consistently. If you hate elves try Lords and Ladies :). I got into Pratchett by reading Good Omens(still my favorite novel btw), and was hooked, but it took me a while to get into disc world for whatever reason.  The only discworld I didn't like was the early Rincewind ones, and those are still pretty good. Haven't read Nation or any other non discworld book, because a) I usually am deep into a history book, and B) I tend to boycott any non discworld pratchett book just because I want him to write discworld instead. Really silly I know. Haven't read the newest one yet. . . 

 

FUCK alzheimer's btw. . .

I agree with pretty much everything there, except I even like the early Rincewind ones (and I'm so happy that he was finally allowed to settle down with a relatively normal life).  I do wish Pratchett hadn't been dragging his feet on a few of the ongoing plotlines, especially everything that relates to Captain Carrot.  

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Thank you, Username; that's EXACTLY the response I needed to hear, seriously.  I will say though: Igor isn't a zombie.  In this world, Igors are a bunch of practically identical hunchbacked scientists/servants/surgeons/basically able to do Frankenstein shit.  They are alive.  

 

Also, it's funny you mentioned elves.  What would you say to one particular elf: who has been kicked out of her tribe, sent on a snipe-hunt mission to basically get rid of her, and winds up in a bizarre fantasy/steampunk city where all the usual cliches do show up, but play themselves out in a different manner, and then she happens to fall into a dysfunctional partnership with a cranky gunslinging alcoholic vampire lesbian?  Cuz, that;s the world I'm trying to put together with a few stories I've been struggling to write.  

 

 

Pratchett is the only fiction writer I ever read consistently. If you hate elves try Lords and Ladies :). I got into Pratchett by reading Good Omens(still my favorite novel btw), and was hooked, but it took me a while to get into disc world for whatever reason.  The only discworld I didn't like was the early Rincewind ones, and those are still pretty good. Haven't read Nation or any other non discworld book, because a) I usually am deep into a history book, and B) I tend to boycott any non discworld pratchett book just because I want him to write discworld instead. Really silly I know. Haven't read the newest one yet. . . 

 

FUCK alzheimer's btw. . .

I agree with pretty much everything there, except I even like the early Rincewind ones (and I'm so happy that he was finally allowed to settle down with a relatively normal life).  I do wish Pratchett hadn't been dragging his feet on a few of the ongoing plotlines, especially everything that relates to Captain Carrot.  

I guess I ought to add I later reread the RIncewind ones, and they are not bad as such, just not as good Discworld later would be. . .

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I'm about 160 pages in to this so far, and I have been enjoying it. I think I have avoided Pratchett because I wasn't quite sure where to begin, so this was a nice push for me. Thus far, Pratchett strikes me as a writer that appeals very much to fans of Joss Whedon, if that makes sense. I have been reading this with a smile on my face, but I get the impression that I don't necessarily think it's quite as funny or clever as others may.

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Also, it's funny you mentioned elves.  What would you say to one particular elf: who has been kicked out of her tribe, sent on a snipe-hunt mission to basically get rid of her, and winds up in a bizarre fantasy/steampunk city where all the usual cliches do show up, but play themselves out in a different manner, and then she happens to fall into a dysfunctional partnership with a cranky gunslinging alcoholic vampire lesbian?  Cuz, that;s the world I'm trying to put together with a few stories I've been struggling to write.  

 

 

It sounds like a fairly interesting treatment (I mean, the cliches playing themselves out differently part falls very much in line with what I was writing above) but I would probably check out once I got to the whole elf part.  I wouldn't take that too hard as I'm about as far out on the "anti-elf for no particular reason" spectrum as you will likely find.  Any choice you make is obviously gonna excite some but lose others as people have all sort of random loves and hates, that's gonna be pretty unavoidable.  As long as you make what is there the best you can make it and hopefully make it as intriguing and interesting as it can be (without going too far, obv) it shouldn't be too much of a handicap.

 

Also since this came up and this would likely be one of the better places to ask: what are the good other Discworld books to check out as an interested outsider since, as mentioned above, there are a ton of them and it's a bit intimidating to try and pick a good place to start.

 

Whatever the Igors I think they are swell :)

 

Next time: hopefully talking about the actual book some!

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Also, it's funny you mentioned elves.  What would you say to one particular elf: who has been kicked out of her tribe, sent on a snipe-hunt mission to basically get rid of her, and winds up in a bizarre fantasy/steampunk city where all the usual cliches do show up, but play themselves out in a different manner, and then she happens to fall into a dysfunctional partnership with a cranky gunslinging alcoholic vampire lesbian?  Cuz, that;s the world I'm trying to put together with a few stories I've been struggling to write.  

 

 

It sounds like a fairly interesting treatment (I mean, the cliches playing themselves out differently part falls very much in line with what I was writing above) but I would probably check out once I got to the whole elf part.  I wouldn't take that too hard as I'm about as far out on the "anti-elf for no particular reason" spectrum as you will likely find.  Any choice you make is obviously gonna excite some but lose others as people have all sort of random loves and hates, that's gonna be pretty unavoidable.  As long as you make what is there the best you can make it and hopefully make it as intriguing and interesting as it can be (without going too far, obv) it shouldn't be too much of a handicap.

 

Also since this came up and this would likely be one of the better places to ask: what are the good other Discworld books to check out as an interested outsider since, as mentioned above, there are a ton of them and it's a bit intimidating to try and pick a good place to start.

 

Whatever the Igors I think they are swell :)

 

Next time: hopefully talking about the actual book some!

 

I would start with one of the stand alone books, maybe Pyramids or Small Gods, just to get a feel if you like him or not. Then there are several different storylines/ groups of characters, like the Witches(Wyrd sisters is first), death(Mort), the city watch(Guards, Guards) and Rincewind/Wizards(the color of magic). I find the early RIncewind ones a little dry, but there is still lots of goodness with Cohen the barbarian and other characters.  . .

 

The BBC did some movies of discworld in the past few years, like Hogfather(the best christmas movie you don't know about), color of magic(not quite as good) and Going Postal, and two animated shows Wyrd sisters and Soul Music. 

 

 

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This isn't just about women in the military.  It's also about politics, about racism, about journalism, about religion, about patriotism, about the excuses that powerful people use to wage their wars by proxy and never caring about the reality of the life of the grunts on the front line.  
 
 

I would start with one of the stand alone books, maybe Pyramids or Small Gods, just to get a feel if you like him or not. Then there are several different storylines/ groups of characters, like the Witches(Wyrd sisters is first), death(Mort), the city watch(Guards, Guards) and Rincewind/Wizards(the color of magic). I find the early RIncewind ones a little dry, but there is still lots of goodness with Cohen the barbarian and other characters.  . .

 Going Postal is one that could work as an introduction, too.  That's maybe his very best book, in my opinion.  
 
 

The BBC did some movies of discworld in the past few years, like Hogfather(the best christmas movie you don't know about), color of magic(not quite as good) and Going Postal, and two animated shows Wyrd sisters and Soul Music.

 

The BBC adaptations are really fun.  They did one for Going Postal, with Charles TYWIN LANNISTER Dance as Lord Vetiniri!  And lead performances by super-talented actors like Richard "I'm so much more than the shady brother in that Prince of Persia movie" Coyle, and David "the only part anyone in America remembers me for is the evil villains in Harry and the Hendersons and Iron Eagle" Suchet, and Claire "Does Anybody Watch Crossbones?" Foy.  And the Colour of Magic adaptation has Sean Astin as a brilliantly re-casted Twoflower, plus Jeremy Irons as Lord Vetineri, and Tim Curry and Brian Cox and Christopher Fucking Lee voicing DEATH HIMSELF.

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This isn't just about women in the military.  It's also about politics, about racism, about journalism, about religion, about patriotism, about the excuses that powerful people use to wage their wars by proxy and never caring about the reality of the life of the grunts on the front line.  

 

 

I would start with one of the stand alone books, maybe Pyramids or Small Gods, just to get a feel if you like him or not. Then there are several different storylines/ groups of characters, like the Witches(Wyrd sisters is first), death(Mort), the city watch(Guards, Guards) and Rincewind/Wizards(the color of magic). I find the early RIncewind ones a little dry, but there is still lots of goodness with Cohen the barbarian and other characters.  . .

 Going Postal is one that could work as an introduction, too.  That's maybe his very best book, in my opinion.  

 

 

The BBC did some movies of discworld in the past few years, like Hogfather(the best christmas movie you don't know about), color of magic(not quite as good) and Going Postal, and two animated shows Wyrd sisters and Soul Music.

 

The BBC adaptations are really fun.  They did one for Going Postal, with Charles TYWIN LANNISTER Dance as Lord Vetiniri!  And lead performances by super-talented actors like Richard "I'm so much more than the shady brother in that Prince of Persia movie" Coyle, and David "the only part anyone in America remembers me for is the evil villains in Harry and the Hendersons and Iron Eagle" Suchet, and Claire "Does Anybody Watch Crossbones?" Foy.  And the Colour of Magic adaptation has Sean Astin as a brilliantly re-casted Twoflower, plus Jeremy Irons as Lord Vetineri, and Tim Curry and Brian Cox and Christopher Fucking Lee voicing DEATH HIMSELF.

My only hesitation with recommending Going postal as a start is that it takes for granted you know somethings about A-M and Vetenari, other than that, good call. 

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Sorry to say I didn't love this. Took me two weeks to get through the last half as I just had a hard time reading it for extended periods, especially once I realized nothing surprising or at least that interesting was going to occur after a certain point. The comparison to Whedon is perfect. I can respect the smart writing, but I don't think I like it very much. It gets kinda cutesy at times which totally took me out of it. Yes, it's intelligent, but it doesn't flow well enough for a non-fan.
 
As for the plot, I was digging it until the main theme started to become overly intrusive. By the end, I just wasn't having it anymore. Kind of like Sideshow Bob's rake bit extended out to an entire episode. The feminist women in war references worked, but the latter half just seems like lazy writing to me. And the reveals only work in the farcical sense, which doesn't jive with the rest of the story.

 

 

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I read Mort before - how are the other Death-orientated books? I really enjoyed his character.

 

Death evolves a lot over the course of the series.  In the early books he's portrayed as sorta villainous, but Pratchett sensibly decided to start changing him into more of a detached-but-sympathetic outsider.  As if the personification of Death was a dude with Aspergers, he just doesn't quite GET humanity.  He's the main character in Reaper Man (weird and trivial as Discworld books go, but pretty fun), Soul Music (Pratchett's agreeable satire on rock-and-roll), Hogfather (a creepy-but-funny Christmas carol), and Thief of Time (hard to describe, but it involves kung-fu).  

 

Also, Username, if you like the Igors, they show up briefly in several books; but especially Igor-heavy books include Thief of Time (still hard to describe, but every mad scientist has an inevitable Igor as hith athithtant, er, his assistant), The Fifth Elephant (one of the Night Watch books, centering around tough ol' copper Commander Vimes, who has a cameo in Monstrous Regiment), and Carpe Jugulum (one of the books involving the Witches, and one of the later ones, but it's a hilarious take on vampires invading a country and being SMART about it).  

 

Beast: I appreciate the effort, dude, but I honestly don't comprehend a single thing you said.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I felt like the exact opposite of pretty much every one of your opinions there.  Thanks for trying, at least, that's being a good sport and really this club's whole point is tackling stuff outside of our comfort zones.  

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Hey, I finished this up with a few days to spare before it was due back at the library.

 

Let me toss a bit of a spoiler warning here as we've been pretty clean so far.

 

Let's get the negative out of the way first: the female revelations eventually got to the point of absurdity.  I can appreciate why they were there and I think Pratchett was aware of this (the Maladict unveiling hints strongly at this) but at some point in that final run it reached the point where I groaned everytime it happened which kinda hurt an otherwise nice scene at the end.

 

Beyond that I found it to be a rather enjoyable read.  I haven't put the thought in to think all that deeply about the themes touched on beyond a superficial level but I found Polliver to be a rather well developed protagonist, just clever enough to push things forward when needed but with enough naivety that she wasn't too far ahead of the reader.  Jackrum was a heck of a character as well, the one person with a complete view of how things are, all that charm and a certain morale code clashing against the weight of previous deeds and a ton of blood spilled.  I think I liked him/her but there were plenty of moments where I drew back from them.

 

I liked that we followed a crew of mostly decent...ish people who were fighting on behalf of a country that it feels fairly safe to consider "bad guys".  A generally warlike nation, starting them for what seems to be inane reasons, practicing a theology that has gone completely off the rails.  A country ruled by a dead Duchess and worshiping a dead god, it's not what one would normally find themselves rooting for yet the gals, perhaps treated worse by said country than the actual invaders, are such a strong window into how the people themselves are mostly just trying to get by the best they can that one ends up hoping that the country can turn the war around if only for the off chance that they might find a way to then right themselves.  The novel plays with said hopes before batting them around, although it leaves open the chance that the small gains made will snowball into bigger things in the future.

 

I'm not at all convinced that Polly is ready to step into those rather large shoes, but I'd like to read the story of how it'd turn out.

 

So yeah, good book, glad I gave it a read.

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I thought it was OK - I like the whimsical, humorous style of Pratchett's writing, but I just much preferred Mort to this one. As was mentioned, the women reveals got incredibly stupid (though I also felt that might have been the point - didn't really make it any less eye-roll worthy).

 

I also felt confused by what was going on at some points. I want to blame this on my ePub copy maybe more than Pratchett, as there wasn't always a clear break so suggest that they'd move to another time/place/situation, thus confusing an often tired me during my time reading this before bed time.

 

Jackrum is a great character, and although I guess it was the obvious thing to do, the reveal was almost a bit of a shame. Him as the guy who gives girls the leg up worked better in my estimation. Pretty much all the characters I enjoy, just the story that is told through them does very little for me.

 

I gave it 3 stars on Goodreads, to attach a number to it.

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Agree that the Jackrum reveal was a shame. It was inevitable after a certain point, but I felt it took away from his role rather than add to it. Maybe if (almost) literally every other major character didn't have the same plot twist, it would have been acceptable.

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So I finished this today, and like everything else I've read from this board I'm glad I did. I think I mentioned in my previous post that this was the first book I'd ever read by Pratchett. I think in that post I may have come across a little more negatively than I would have liked. Really, while I still feel as though some of Pratchett's work might not be my bag, it's super easy to see why he has the tremendous following he does. That man, more so than perhaps any genre author I've ever read, knows how to pace a novel. It was crazy at the very end when Polly makes mention that it had been a week all told, and I sat back and realized that felt perfect. The characters had been fleshed out well from that perspective, and their relationships were believable for how long they knew each other. Like others have said, I think the plot is a little thin at times, and I think at times the events undercut the satire by veering dangerously close to farce. I was also pleasantly surprised that Pratchett kept his jabs on organized religion relatively light. I think he probably could have really gone overboard in that regard, but I feel as though this just would have undercut the tone of the rest of the book. I'm not sure I would read another Terry Pratchett book, because I sort of feel as though I've gotten the gist, but if a friend thought I would really love another one, I would certainly give it a shot.

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