Phil Schneider Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Crazy goldmine of 50s wrestling in amazing VQ has been uploaded by the Chicago film archives over the last couple of days https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg I figure we could have a thread where folks dig into it and find the hidden gems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Never seen footage of Bob Orton Sr. before. And it's In color, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Crackers Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Dick the Bruiser & the Lisowski Brothers vs Verne Gagne, Wilbur Snyder & Argentina Rocca (9/14/56) I decided to check this one out because of the lineup and it turned out pretty fun. It's actually a pretty fast paced match considering when it happened. I haven't really seen a tag match from this era before so it was interesting to see the differences between the mechanics of tag matches today and back then. A lot of the action was back and forth and there were a number of heat sections. Those heat sections never really reached the crescendo I expect to see in most tag matches and there were more than you see in most tag matches. The heels did a lot of stooging and it's easy to see the traditions of AWA heel stooging here. Dick the Bruiser took some huge bumps and the Lisowski brothers walked into a number of basic double and triple team attacks. They were constantly doing those little heelish mannerisms; they were pulling hair, tights, and choking. I was surprised to see Gagne lose the first fall clean via submission but he took his win back in the second fall. We didn't get to see much of Wilbur Snyder who I wanted to see after hearing my dad talk about him for years. What we did see looked pretty promising. He had a great exchange with Stan. Snyder put on the short arm scissors in really slick fashion but Lisowski deadlifted out of it which is a classic counter I always like to see. At first I thought it was a weird counter for a heel but Stan turns to the crowd and flexes his muscles afterward and Snyder dropkicks him right over the top rope. I've only seen highlights of Rocca before and his offense was pretty fun here. As a shoot style fan it's fascinating to see him throwing palm strikes and a variety of kicks but the mat stuff he did do was wacky. Lost of bridges and handstands but mixed with flying leg scissors takedowns and other athletic stuff like that. This has got me excited to see more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Verne Gagne vs. Red Bastien - date unknown Fun little 10-minute match here. Plucky underdog newcomer Red Bastien (words I never thought I would type anywhere) makes his debut against one of the big dogs of the territory, Verne Gagne - who has hair! First few minutes telling a great story of Bastien using his quickness to frustrate the more established Verne with the crowd getting behind Red's relative flashiness, but Verne is able to eventually ground him and then puts on a clinic in stiff matwork - Bastien has a bloody nose within a couple minutes of being grounded by Verne. Bastien gets one or two more brief hope spots throughout the rest of the match, but in the end this is a solid textbook established veteran vs. rookie newcomer formula match. And poking around at what else there is here, there goes any chance of this weekend being productive: -TWO Lou Thesz vs. Buddy Rogers bouts! -Don Leo Jonathan! -A Lou Thesz vs Edouard Carpentier match! -young Dick The Bruiser and young Sheik! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DouglasC Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Moose Cholak vs. Bearcat Wright This one is a lot of fun watching Moose work the crowd and show off some nice facial expressions. He gets egged during the intro, and that prompts a warning from the announcer. My only complaint is the announcer calling Wright a 'negro boy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 The Sheik of Araby v. Harry Lewis - 3/5/54 The Sheik back in his more legitimate days. Lots of cheating out of the ref's sight though! Russ Davis is such a shitty commentator. Not because of the 1950s-era things we don't say as much any more, but more because of his "I'm gonna talk to the wrestlers" one-liners he just springs. I can guess why the Sheik just went with the stabbing approach to working later on. Sheik's finish is not the Camel Clutch, but it's kinda interesting concept for a move. Vittorio Apollo vs. Miguel Torres - 4/14/61 Not sure how many of Apollo's spots are lifted directly from Rocca (they do team up later). You could probably do the cartwheel/snapmare sequence today and have it age well. The slowest part of the match was the submission hold. Wristlock -> side kicking! More cartwheels! Russ Davis doing a Jose Jimenez voice! Apollo wins quick and it was a showcase piece for him. Apollo went on to be known as Argentina Apollo in other places which aren't posting as much of their film archives on YouTube (there's some matches from him from 5 years later or 13 years later on YouTube). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 I thought Cholak v Wright stunk. Wright v johnny valentine was great and Cholak v Larry Chene is a classic, but this was bad punches and some shoulder blocks and it went 3 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DouglasC Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Anytime a match includes a pre-match egging, I will have a really hard time hating it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 This might be going outside of the bounds of the footage, but when did the US decide on a standard "10 count for a countout", while Japan went to a 20 count. Because there's a match on there where the count is explained as "10 count if you leave on your own or stand on the apron" and "20 count if someone throws you out of the ring". Seems sensible that the count should be shorter if you leave the ring than if the other guy knocks you out of the ring. Unrelated: I am amused at the description in tag matches that partners had to "shake the hand" of their partner (which they did sometimes). Seems like a tag team of true gentlemen bad guys should tag in and out of matches by shaking each others hand like old chaps. "Good Sir, let me shake your hand and give you an opportunity to continue thrashing this poor sod". Considering the insane amount of footage they have (200 hours?, they have 101 matches up right now).. one can only guess what stuff is gonna get posted last. For all we know, it'll be 10 consecutive Primo Carnera wrestling matches. But there's results listings for some of these cards, so we can figure out what is and isn't on YouTube, and what they probably decided to not put on a television show. Also, there's an obvious 40s/50s boxing feel to some of the presentation here. Back in the golden 10-15 years when TV networks needed content and went to boxing shows to fill out their primetime schedules. Before people started dying in the ring on TV and networks started cancelling prime time boxing en masse. I think Boxing lasted on network TV a few more years than primetime wrestling. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Miner Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Wow this is a great day to be a wrestling fan. So much footage and the quality is good. I'd given up years ago on ever seeing something like this happen. Think I will have to start with some 1950s tag team matches. I'm going to have to send them a donation for doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Lou Thesz vs. Verne Gagne...THIS is some old school mat wrasslin' my friends! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I had no clue where to start, so I started with Angelo Poffo since I'd never seen him work. Hans Schmidt and Angelo Poffo v. Bob Konovsky and Pat O'Connor (2 out of 3 falls, 5/2/58) I think fans should start dressing in suits and ties again. This was a disjointed match for me with some cool stuff. Pat O'Connor's bridge-up into a headlock -----> strike the opponent square in the face thing was a great spot, though after the third time, I was wondering when Schmidt and Poffo would stop pinning him in the perfect position so that he could kick out by doing just that. I also loved the quick tags to clubber the shit out of Konovsky and Schmidt trying to stomp Pat O'Connor's ankle from outside the ring. Anyway, the clubbering and two Hans Schmidt backbreakers that led to the first fall was whatever, but what I liked was O'Connor cracking Konovsky's back in the interim before the second fall started. There was a quick heat segment on O'Connor before Konovsky got in, and for whatever reason, it really worked because the crowd exploded for the hot tag because I thought it was rushed. Konovsky throws some shitty judo chops, man. I know that some of the forearms Schmidt and Poffo throw can be weak, but those chops. The second fall was rushed, though of course the point was that the heels goaded Konovsky to start the fall after getting beat and paid for it. Then Schmidt is sore about losing, so Poffo has to start fall three. That's built around Poffo wanting to tag out and Schmidt not agreeing. There's not much here except for a couple neat spots and the commentator dropping quips about S&H Green Stamps, so you can probably just skip it. The first fall's segment where the faces outshine the heels sort of drags on and gets repetitive, and except for the quick tags near the end of that fall by the heels, most of this is rushed too quickly to really be effective after that. Note: I could be just not understanding the way '50s tag team wrestling in the U.S. worked, so if I don't understand what I'm watching, or if I'm not putting it in the proper context, please feel free to share your thoughts on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Having never seen matches this old, I decided to check out this one due it's short length more than anything. The biggest surprise to me was the commentary. I expected it to be all serious and professional sounding, but this dude was one snarky motherfucker. He made 2000 Tony Schiavone look like JR calling the Taker/Foley HIAC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Watching Lou and Verne go at it was a real demonstration of where the "NWA style" of the 70's came from. As I watched the long head lock stretches leading to a single high spot reminded me of later matches both in the States and 70's/80's AJPW. There were also some fairly stiff punches and forearms thrown. Overall, I really enjoyed that one. I liked watching the VINTAGE crowd in the background too. Oh how things have changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Thanks for pointing this out Schneider, it's going to distract me for a long time, hopefully I'll find some goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I just fell asleep watching Snyder vs Atlas. It says more about me than the match though. Atlas was the Jackie Gleason of wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEAN Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Jiminy Crickets! There is guys in that who I only know by my uncle telling me about them when I was kid (Mr. Moto.) This is a pretty great Buddy Rogers match in that this is one of the only Haystack Calhoun matches I've seen without little people involved. Calhoun is fucking hardcore. ------------------ The Mr Moto match. My uncle told me about Mr Moto in sunday class when I was 8. 40 years later, I finally see him. EDIT: Jesus, this match is fucking great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 these guys should have Johnny Valentine matches in their vault that they could be uploading soon. At the risk of getting Dean more excited 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 The Mr Moto match. My uncle told me about Mr Moto in sunday class when I was 8. 40 years later, I finally see him. EDIT: Jesus, this match is fucking great. I went straight to this match, I'm dying at the announcer..."Mr. Motoooooo. That's not how we do things over here." Also apparently palming a guy in the throat is a "Judo Throat Hold." And apparently one night in Southern Illinois Rasputin did a flying brodie off the top rope on to a guy's breadbasket and a fucking riot happened with all the chairs ending up in the ring. THE FUCK IS A FLYING BRODIE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 these guys should have Johnny Valentine matches in their vault that they could be uploading soon. At the risk of getting Dean more excited I hadn't seen any sort of match list. I know they've got anther 100 or matches to come, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 these guys should have Johnny Valentine matches in their vault that they could be uploading soon. At the risk of getting Dean more excited I hadn't seen any sort of match list. I know they've got anther 100 or matches to come, though yeah, i'm just operating off of the results from the cards, not sure how many were filmed for TV. For example, here's one card with the matches on YouTube in bold Chicago, Illinois: Friday, April 14, 1961 (International Amphitheater) … Buddy Rogers b. Haystacks Calhoun (CO) (11:42) … Sweet Daddy Siki and “Seaman” Art Thomas b. The Sicilians (Lou Albano and Tony Altimore) … Crusher Lisowski and Johnny Valentine drew … Argentina Apollo b. Miguel Torres … Jose Betancourt b. Fred Atkins … Moose Cholak b. Bearcat Wright … Johnny Gilbert b. Jack Terry … (promoter: Fred Kohler) … (11,000 fans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 RED BASTIEN vs VERNE GAGNE - Really fun stuff with Verne going over the top rope trying a headscissors. Bastien is so smooth and quick. RED BASTIEN vs MIGHTY ATLAS This your strong man heel against a fiery babyface. Nice little sequence where Bastien tries to put Atlas' full nelson on him twice. Atlas powers out both times but on the second time, Bastien dropkicks him in the back. The crowd really gets a kick out of that. Bastien utilizes some foot stomps to try and escape a hammerlock. Atlas is a big bully so he stomps on Bastien's hand while stepping on his hair. Bastien gets a hammerlock of his own and Atlas resorts to a rope escape. The fans really get on Atlas for that. Bastien takes a couple of nice chest first bumps into the corner and Atlas submits him with the full nelson. He holds onto it after the match and the fans throw stuff at him. THE SHEIK OF ARABY vs BILL MELBY (4/26/1957) - "We've got a dilly for you here," explains Russ Davis. This is long and pretty boring. Sheik runs out the clock at the end and celebrates the time limit draw like a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Lou Thesz vs. Verne Gagne is fucking awesome. And Russ Davis has overnight on my list of best announcers ever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Crackers Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Cholak vs Bearcat Wright had cool moments like the egging and the shoulder blocks but there just wasn't enough there for a great match. Little Eagle vs Tom Thumb was a cool, focused match and had way less comedy than I was expecting/hoping for. I had no idea Eagle was so old when he wrestled at WMIII. I watched the Thesz vs Rogers match that went to a draw while cooking yesterday. It was alright. I found the mat wrestling in the Lisowskis/Bruiser vs Gagne/Rocca/Snyder trios match to be far more gripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Shit, Gypsie Mother Fucking Joe looked old even back in 51 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qn2ZIoHW6Y&list=UUWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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