Marvel Comics Omnibus thread

[Ace]

2/3 of the team will just stand there and shoot you. Even Quire has a psychic shotgun.

 

[Brian Fowler]

I love the team, but I remember another time Marvel had a b-list superhero team book that was an in-universe reality show... It ended poorly.

[The Natural]

Deadpool time:

The Uncanny Avengers: The Man Who Fell to Earth by Gerry Duggan collects the Uncanny Avengers #7-12. The Uncanny Avengers investigate a claim by the Wrecker there’s a super prison disguised as Pleasant Hill. I first read this in the Avengers Standoff books and it was one of the only tie-ins worth reading. #9-12 sees Hank Pym/Ultron bonded together return from a presumed death. Who’s controlling whom though? Is it Hank as he claims? This was a very good arc for this, Hank upset at what he comes back to: not trusted by the team, not looked for, his memorial.

Deadpool World’s Greatest: Secret Empire collects Deadpool (Vol. 5) #31-36 by Gerry Duggan. Captain America is Deadpool’s guy before Secret Empire as an Avenger and into Secret Empire. Steve Rogers is HYDRA and Deadpool works for him. I can’t help but compare it to the Duggan/Brian Posehn run and it’s a sizeable step down. This book ties up key aspects to it so feels like the book will be starting from scratch. 

The Despicable Deadpool #300 by Gerry Duggan. I ordered this as it’s the end of Duggan’s run on the book having read him with Brian Posehn Deadpool (2012-2015) and some on his own. Deadpool wants to be brought it yet uses a weapon to kill his powerful enemies. A contradiction that. The first half is a long gag and will depend on your mileage, it was soso. The second half is better but sad as Deadpool erases his memory from the aforementioned Duggan/Posehn time on Deadpool. By doing so it acts as a clean slate for the new creative team on Wade Wilson/Deadpool. While it’s a storyline wipe in current continuity, the books are still there for the reader. So mixed feelings for me regarding this issue. There’s a piece by Gerry Duggan talking and thankful for his time on the book.

The Duggan/Posehn Deadpool run had some great highs (the Good, the Bad and the Ugly is a classic, Dead Presidents and the Wedding of Deadpool #27) with a few lows (Honeymoon in Tokyo, Axis and DP vs. Omega Read/Roxxon Oil in the Middle East).

[The Natural]

Some big comic books out next week including Amazing Spider-Man #800 and my LCS is closed all that week. Shit.

[Victator]

The renumberings really cheapen it hitting 800. 

[Matt D]

Thankfully, stories matter more than numbers and I'm really curious how this one ends.

[The Natural]

17 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Thankfully, stories matter more than numbers and I'm really curious how this one ends.

I am with Dan Slott's long tenure on Spider-Man ending. 

[Spritenaut 32]

So I was reading character histories on Wikipedia recently.  I now see why both Marvel and DC are trying to downplay/deboot continuity, or at least make current history (since the last reboot) all that matters.  It's hard to find a character whose history isn't a trainwreck of terrible ideas,  questionable retcons, ideas just dropped with no explanation, etc.  Wikipedia does make for some amusing reading if you've been reading comics long enough to remember the events described.  I'm sure trying to make sense of that is kinda daunting for new readers (then again, not sure trying to follow DC through multiple universe reboots is much better).

It's also kinda fun to try to guess what current plotlines are going to be fodder for mocking and satirical CBR columns 20 or 30 years from now (assuming Marvel and DC still publish comics a few decades from now).  I personally liked Spencer's Captain America run but "Remember when Steve Rogers was a Hydra sleeper agent" is probably going to seem like a terrible idea 20 years from now (lots of people already think that).

[The Unholy Dragon]

I mean, it's a situation with no great options. Ignoring the history means that certain characters can become stunted in terms of development. The number of times I've gotten invested in a take on a character only for it to be dumped when someone wants to use them as a classic form villain is frustrating. Poison Ivy is getting a LOT of that at DC right now. Harley Quinn too, honestly. Deadpool has suffered from it, maybe moreso as different creators end up repeating the same kind of character arc with differing results. Batman, same problem. Thanos had like fifteen plus years of development that got casually dumped to make him a typical cosmic evil villain type to sync with the MCU-ish. Given how superhero comics try to push characters over creators, it's hard to invest in characters knowing all development might be undercut.

However.

 

Viewing each run as a sort of discrete take more or less divorced from the broader continuity does often create satisfying runs if read in isolation which also makes the whole deal way more new reader friendly.

It's a problem because it really comes down to trying to keep the longtime readers satisfied vs. attracting new readers.

THAT SAID

I find a lot of folks coming to the characters from film/tv/whatever are basically looking to deep dive a richer version of the mythos. Crossover fans are usually LOOKING for the weird, complicated history so I'm not sure that trying to veer away from it really benefits the companies quite the way they're hoping. The bigger problem is that there's only so far you can develop franchise characters without divorcing them from the elements that make them unique. Batman can't stay happy. Deadpool has to straddle the merc/hero line. So we circle the drain endlessly. 

[odessasteps]

I've been reading the silver age Captain Marvel run and totally did not remember that Carol Danvers has been around since his second story, where she was director of security at the airbase where MarVell ends up. 

[Brian Fowler]

I call it Johnny Storm syndrome.

Every writer who does a long stint on Fantastic Four ends up telling a story about Johnny finally growing up, taking responsibility, becoming a man, etc. But either the next writer or the one after that wants to write the classic Fantastic Four, and Jonny's archetypal role is the annoying little brother, so back he goes to being an irresponsible, immature manchild. Until the next long run when someone tells the story of Johnny Storm growing up.

You can use a lot of other characters to explain it, but for some reason, to me, Johnny is the one that most embodies it, because he's such an archetype and it's always the same basic beats.

 

[The Unholy Dragon]

That makes sense. My defining view of the phenomenon sticks with Batman alienating all his allies by refusing to trust, forcing him to face his flaws and work to bring his family back together...and repeat. Johnny is also a really good point of reference for that though.

[Brian Fowler]

That is definitely a recurring motif.

[odessasteps]

The good thing about 70s Batman is he is generally angst free, apart from the occasional romantic subplot (Talia vs Selina) and Gotham City politics (Rupert Thorne, ...). 

[Victator]

10 hours ago, Matt D said:

Thankfully, stories matter more than numbers and I'm really curious how this one ends.

Meh

 

Quote

 

I call it Johnny Storm syndrome.

Every writer who does a long stint on Fantastic Four ends up telling a story about Johnny finally growing up, taking responsibility, becoming a man, etc. But either the next writer or the one after that wants to write the classic Fantastic Four, and Jonny's archetypal role is the annoying little brother, so back he goes to being an irresponsible, immature manchild. Until the next long run when someone tells the story of Johnny Storm growing up.

You can use a lot of other characters to explain it, but for some reason, to me, Johnny is the one that most embodies it, because he's such an archetype and it's always the same basic beats.

 

Johnny had a pretty good run of not reverting from Byrne til Onslaught. I remember after Heroes Return there was a small contingent of readers wanting to know what happened to Lyja The Skrull. She ever turn up again. 

[Matt D]

X-Men feels impossible for me some days and I've probably read 95% of it. I think Marvel pretty much cracked it in the late 00s though. Only what matters for the current story counts and you keep at least 2/3rds of everything that happened in mind to shape the character. If they revert/lapse, well that's human nature to a degree. Don't contradict big things. Don't make a big deal out of little things that contradict for the sake of a single story/interaction. It's tricky but not rocket science. Eventually things become slightly more self-aware under the weight of the universe but that just makes a more interesting universe than "real life."

I get that the mantra's always been that comics have to turn a profit/stay in the black but they should be a R+D loss leader for Marvel, with a big focus on new stories/permeations/characters. 

[Victator]

Its probably better creatively to go with the idea of wanting to make a profit. I think creativity flourishes when under duress That old theory of fighting with your back to the ocean. 

[Spritenaut 32]

18 hours ago, The Unholy Dragon said:

Viewing each run as a sort of discrete take more or less divorced from the broader continuity does often create satisfying runs if read in isolation which also makes the whole deal way more new reader friendly.

This is where I come in.  I'm usually not too fussed by what the writer does to a character as long as the story is good.  I've never really gotten so attached to a character that I get upset if they're killed off, depowered, written out, etc.  So I'm not really bothered when a writer shakes up the status quo or retcons a previous change.  Though it does get annoying to see the writers retcon character growth with characters like Storm and Batman just so they can hit the same tired character beats over and over.

It just struck me that, when you read a character's bio boiled down to one long Wikipedia entry, those characters histories inevitably end up reading like a train wreck.  Well, character x was a mutant, then he wasn't, then he was a tree, then he was a mutant with armor made out of a tree, then his wife left him for a tree but another writer took over so they were back together with no explanation, etc...  I guess coherence is a necessary casualty when you're in a medium that puts out an issue 12 times a year, and often has been doing that for decades, with writer changes at least every few years and big events designed to boost sales every couple years, but it really does make for some daunting reading.

After a while, every Wikipedia entry started reading like a CBR column poking fun at bad character twists.

Speaking of which, I'd completely forgotten Northstar and Aurora were supposed to be half-elves for awhile.  LOl,

 

[odessasteps]

I’ve been in the hyper time / it all counts camp for a while. 

[The Natural]

https://www.cbr.com/spider-gwen-final-story-arc-interview/amp/

Spider-Gwen ends with #34 from Jason Latour, Robbi Rodriguez and Rico Renzi. This is the creative team behind Spider-Gwen from her first appearance in Edge of Spider-Verse #2. I bought that book when it came out and both volumes of her ongoing. I'll miss them. I'd like to think the character will be around still. 

[TheVileOne]

On 5/27/2018 at 12:25 PM, Brian Fowler said:

I call it Johnny Storm syndrome.

Every writer who does a long stint on Fantastic Four ends up telling a story about Johnny finally growing up, taking responsibility, becoming a man, etc. But either the next writer or the one after that wants to write the classic Fantastic Four, and Jonny's archetypal role is the annoying little brother, so back he goes to being an irresponsible, immature manchild. Until the next long run when someone tells the story of Johnny Storm growing up.

You can use a lot of other characters to explain it, but for some reason, to me, Johnny is the one that most embodies it, because he's such an archetype and it's always the same basic beats.

 

Hawkeye for me. It's a major reason I can't stand Bendis' run on Avengers. 

[Matt D]

ASM 800 was way better than Meh.

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

ASM 800 was way better than Meh.

Good to hear!

Sticking with Doomsday Clock? 

[The Unholy Dragon]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:36 PM, Victator said:

Johnny had a pretty good run of not reverting from Byrne til Onslaught. I remember after Heroes Return there was a small contingent of readers wanting to know what happened to Lyja The Skrull. She ever turn up again. 

In Secret Invasion, yeah. Then got written off again.

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

Good to hear!

Sticking with Doomsday Clock? 

Yeah, but it's dense as hell. I'm not in any rush to get to it immediately.