Eivion Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, SouderDrew said: Any good Marvel trades I should read? I'm not talking about some of the older 80s-90s stuff. I'm looking at stuff around the Marvel NOW! or Marvel Heroic Age. I've been reading a lot of DC and want to change it up by reading different stories from Marvel. Thanks! Avengers Academy, Aaron's Thor, Waid's Daredevil, Hickman's Avengers & New Avengers, Secret Wars, Gillen's Young Avenegers, Loki: Agent of Asgard, Ewing's Ultimates, Black Panther, Posehn/Duggan's Deadpool, Aaron's Wolverine and the X-mne, Remender's Uncanny X-Force. I'm mostly going off of what is considered a part of both Initiatives according to wiki. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 4 hours ago, SouderDrew said: Any good Marvel trades I should read? I'm not talking about some of the older 80s-90s stuff. I'm looking at stuff around the Marvel NOW! or Marvel Heroic Age. I've been reading a lot of DC and want to change it up by reading different stories from Marvel. Thanks! If you're looking at Heroic Age as a starting point and haven't read Avengers Academy, you should give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouderDrew Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 21 hours ago, Matt D said: What are some of your favorite stories/runs? The only think I've really read from the Heroic Age to Marvel Now! is the first Civil War and Superior Spider-Man. I just looking at other titles and stories to read. How was stuff like Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, etc.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Remender's run on Cap was really weird but good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APO Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Invincible Iron Man when Tony was on the run from Osborne was really good, IMO(that was Fraction, right?). Incredible Hulk when Herc took over for a bit was fun as hell, but that might be pre-Heroic Age. Gillen's Uncanny X-Men is worth checking out even with that shitbag of an event, AvX, interrupting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 I dont remember anymore which stuff was during which marketing scheme anymore, esp with all the renumbering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I'm up to Star Wars #30 & Doctor Aphra #3. Was nice to see the Scar troopers finally face off with Luke and co. That was a wonderful disaster. I do love everyone but R2 giving up on poor Threepio in the aftermath. Loved Yoda's Secret War. The type of story it was and how it played out just felt perfect. I was pleased with the first three issue of Aphra. Its nice to learn more about her and see her more in her normal element of crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 11 hours ago, APO said: Invincible Iron Man when Tony was on the run from Osborne was really good, IMO(that was Fraction, right?). Incredible Hulk when Herc took over for a bit was fun as hell, but that might be pre-Heroic Age. Gillen's Uncanny X-Men is worth checking out even with that shitbag of an event, AvX, interrupting it. Fraction's Iron Man ran from post Civil War, through Dark Reign, and into the Heroic Age. And yeah, the Osborn bit was in the Dark Reign stretch. Incredible Herc was basically in the exact same stretch. Started just prior, went through Dark Reign and ended during the Heroic Age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 On 6/27/2017 at 8:16 PM, SouderDrew said: Any good Marvel trades I should read? I'm not talking about some of the older 80s-90s stuff. I'm looking at stuff around the Marvel NOW! or Marvel Heroic Age. I've been reading a lot of DC and want to change it up by reading different stories from Marvel. Thanks! The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Nick Spencer. Avenging Spider-Man #15.1-22 and Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #1, 5-8, Christopher Yost. I read your later post saying you've read the Superior Spider-Man. Check these out as IMO Yost writes the best SpOck. Scarlet Spider (Vol. 2), Christopher Yost. Deadpool, Gerry Duggan/Brian Posehn. Captain America, Rick Remender. Spider-Gwen (Vol. 1), Jason Latour. Loki: Agent of Asgard. Al Ewing. Secret Wars, Jonathan Hickman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 So according to Bleeding Cool (who have a solid track record for this stuff) Marvel creators weren't given notice on the Legacy covers and many of the covers don't match their stories which either means they're lies or some folks are getting bounced. Anyway, not a good look and apparently some creators aren't thrilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 30 minutes ago, The Unholy Dragon said: So according to Bleeding Cool (who have a solid track record for this stuff) Marvel creators weren't given notice on the Legacy covers and many of the covers don't match their stories which either means they're lies or some folks are getting bounced. Anyway, not a good look and apparently some creators aren't thrilled. Marvel's having difficulties, this and sales dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just saw that on BC as well. That is moronic and terrible if true.It shouldn't be surprising with how half-assed Legacy has been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Relatedly, there's buzz that DC may be in a poaching mood and some creators may be interested. Not helped because the lack of creative team announcements is apparently to leave room to drop creators without notice. This is turning into a dumpster fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Role reversal in fortunes between DC and Marvel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I really thought Marvel's had it together the past... ten years, maybe? I grew up a DC fan, and, when I was really serious into comics in the 80's and 90's, DC had a lot of good writers and was doing stuff like Saga of the Swamp Thing and Animal Man, and Marvel was cranking out a lot of X-books done by Rob Liefeld clones. Just wasn't any comparison as to quality of writing and target audience. Past ten years, it seemed like Marvel generally had better writers and a philosophy of using creative teams to drive books instead of depending on the character to sell the book. I've rarely bought a comic book because of the creator or event. I almost always buy because I like the writer. Take Rucka off Wonder Woman and I have little interest in the next issue unless I like the incoming writer - even if the book is in the middle of a storyline. It's stunning how fast Marvel is declining. I thought Secret Wars was great, but I've been disinterested in most Marvel books and concepts first. A lot of iffy directions for characters and it seems like a lot of the writers I liked have left (Hickman, Remender, Gillen). I'm actually reading a number of good Marvel books right now - the Ewing titles, Captain America - but I don't have a lot of interest in the line as a whole and feel like they've taken a big step back from where they were leading up to Secret Wars. I feel like the much denied decision to depush FF and X-Men because they don't own the movie rights was the first crack in the wall. I don't think Inhumans will ever be extremely popular even with a monster marketing push. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 There was a huge brain drain as it became possible to make a good living on the indies. Losing Wacker to animation was a hit too. Brevoort/Wacker/Lowe/Pannicia as an editing team was as much behind the creative success as anything else. I think plenty of the line is still good but the batting average is worse and some of the best stuff isn't surviving well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 47 minutes ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said: I really thought Marvel's had it together the past... ten years, maybe? I grew up a DC fan, and, when I was really serious into comics in the 80's and 90's, DC had a lot of good writers and was doing stuff like Saga of the Swamp Thing and Animal Man, and Marvel was cranking out a lot of X-books done by Rob Liefeld clones. Just wasn't any comparison as to quality of writing and target audience. Past ten years, it seemed like Marvel generally had better writers and a philosophy of using creative teams to drive books instead of depending on the character to sell the book. I've rarely bought a comic book because of the creator or event. I almost always buy because I like the writer. Take Rucka off Wonder Woman and I have little interest in the next issue unless I like the incoming writer - even if the book is in the middle of a storyline. It's stunning how fast Marvel is declining. I thought Secret Wars was great, but I've been disinterested in most Marvel books and concepts first. A lot of iffy directions for characters and it seems like a lot of the writers I liked have left (Hickman, Remender, Gillen). I'm actually reading a number of good Marvel books right now - the Ewing titles, Captain America - but I don't have a lot of interest in the line as a whole and feel like they've taken a big step back from where they were leading up to Secret Wars. I feel like the much denied decision to depush FF and X-Men because they don't own the movie rights was the first crack in the wall. I don't think Inhumans will ever be extremely popular even with a monster marketing push. Good post. Like you, I enjoyed more Marvel books before Secret Wars. I thought Secret Wars was a great event and produced some good spin-offs. I'd say the only book better post Secret Wars than before it is Spider-Gwen. The big Inhumans push and the demotion of X-Men/Fantastic Four in the comic books doesn't help goodwill either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I mean...DC and Image are both more favourable to name creators. It's my understanding that DC pays far better residuals and pays for use of characters created while there (I'm pretty sure Graham Nolan once noted he got a 43 cent cheque for the few seconds Bane was in the Public Enemies adaptation). Marvel has better talent scouts on the indies and is better at cultivating talent but retaining it once at that point is tougher. FWIW I read a lot of books from both as a retailer and I think Marvel's line is really solid qualitatively still. But where DC compressed and refocused its line for Rebirth, doubling down on popular stuff and slowly reintroducing midlist stuff as well as developing discrete lines for other stuff like Young Animal and the new Wild Storm...their main line is tighter and focused and it's easy to grab a family of books or identify what you want. And they've been doing creator focused runs with a minimum of events while making those events more focused so people get invested in them instead of it being a linewide distraction for 3 months at a time, 6 months out of a year. People look at the Marvel shelf and don't know where to start because there's what? Like 1/3 more titles? And none of the marketing DC has put in outside the industry. DC actively keeps reaching out to kids and women and people who don't read Superhero stuff. Young Animal is a link to get younger folks checking out old Vertigo or Image to read something with Batman or Superman in it and it's landing. They have stuff like the Hoopla deal to both diversify how their stuff sells and also reach readers in other channels. Marvel just keeps marketing like 70-90 books per month to the same Direct Market that can support half that at best. They put out books targeted at PoC, LGBT, and women readers but don't market to those communities and wonder why it fails. And even when they *do* get those readers, they relaunch the book multiple times which is confusing and/or suck it into events they don't care about. Ms. Marvel does gangbusters on Comixology because G. Willow Wilson did a killer job marketing and promoting it through social media. Moon Girl is alive because it's a hit in the scholastic market. Black Panther was a huge sales hit before they added 2 spinoffs at once. The spinoffs were good but neither survived and main title sales dropped sharply when they landed. When they get their shit together Marvel can pull off a lot of the same successes DC can. But for all his faults, Dan DiDio will admit when he's wrong and course correct. Marvel seems to be all about blame shifting and ignoring the problem. They just keep doing what they alwayshave ignoring that they're eating their own tail. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 History shows that after awhile blame shifting and ignoring the problem leads the ouster of the current EiC (and in the past suits in bigger offices as well). Then comes a course correction which itself ill need correcting to st the ship straight. I mean we aren't heaing ot a post-Marvelution type bust or anying (especially not with Disney at the helm) James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Past the slight brain drain(and it's mainly just slight), what's the problem? Is it just too many books? Trying to double down on anything successful? They'd be crazy not to. The current Marvel line is pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Matt D said: Past the slight brain drain(and it's mainly just slight), what's the problem? Is it just too many books? Trying to double down on anything successful? They'd be crazy not to. The current Marvel line is pretty damn good. The tl;dr is too many books, not enough marketing of diverse books, thus oversaturating a direct market at its limit. $3.99 as the new lowest price isn't helping anything either. http://www.comicsbeat.com/comparing-dcs-and-marvels-may-sales-theyre-closer-than-you-might-think/ Solid breakdown of the sales trend here. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/ Pretty good analysis of the issues here. It's a multifaceted issue that mostly comes down to a lack of foresight or investment resulting in short term sales stunts with diminishing returns, a lack of audience building/cultivating, and no clear strategy to reverse that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 But the most important misconception to bust is that it's not really about quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Yeah. I'd argue Marvel's putting out as much good to great stuff as they have since Civil War. Personal tastes may be a factor but I don't get folks saying their output sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Some of the writers are excellent. Editorial is fucked up. Remember a year or two ago when the Phoenix was major world ending thing? And then eradicated? Then remember 2 months ago where it showed up in 3 different books possessing two people at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The over hype of the Legacy covers seems to be having a shockingly large negative impact. There's been a lot of evidence that rebooting the lower selling titles ends up bleeding more readers long term. I know Nick Spencer tried hitting back on that on Twitter (with a decent point that the increased sales on the #1 often pays for the next few issues and gives the team a chance to finish their story) but the long term trend for comics is bad enough without doing things that seem to actively erode even more readers. Anyway, other than that insane Kindle sale, nearly all my Marvel reading or purchasing is at Unlimited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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