Matt D Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Matt D said: I'm seeing this as an AzBats/Spider-Ock thing, myself. They've pretty much gone out of their way now to express that this is a different Steve who had different experiences growing up and an entirely different origin story. It'd be like redoing Peter Parker's origin where he was secretly adopted by Norman Osborn after his parents were killed or something. It's much more of a Red Son thing than something that he has to come back from. At some point, reality will go back to where this lady never recruited Steve's mother into Hydra when he was a kid and that's that. I'd actually be really surprised if we don't see Hydra Cap fighting our Cap in a story within 5 years or so. They'd be sort of crazy NOT to do that at this point. Hell, if they want to lean hard into Legacy by having ALL of the classic characters on the table, then that might even be how Secret Empire ends. (Quoting myself because I'm so thoroughly right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I type my comic book reviews up and post them. I read this one a while ago: The Amazing Spider-Man #16.1-20.1: Spiral. I looked forward to this miniseries’ because it’s a welcome return to Spider-Man by Gerry Conway. A top five Spider-Man writer who may have written the best Spider-Man story there is, The Night Gwen Stacy Died. The book is Spidey back to basics fighting street level crime run by gang leaders battling for power and the clash between police/vigilantism. The book also looks at a person losing their way with their behaviour, is it a good person doing bad things, a bad person who does good things or a bit of both. Can you save someone from what they’ve turned into? Gerry does a better job explaining Black Cat’s change in character compared to Dan Slott who turned Black Cat into the version we see today. Good reading a book where Peter’s written maturely and capably. I enjoyed this book, much better than the current Amazing Spider-Man title by Slott. Gerry Conway is so consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 So update the Cap vs 50s commie smasher Cap stuff in a way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Basically but with all of Steve's tactical ability, determination and good intentions instead of just the super soldier serum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Hell, throw Sam, Bucky John Walker, and 50's Cap in as well. All out Captain America Battle Royal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: Hell, throw Sam, Bucky John Walker, and 50's Cap in as well. All out Captain America Battle Royal!! And future Cap Danielle Cage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 I'd like to see American Dream make a cameo if we are going all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 I know who you actually mean, but I can't help but be picturing Dusty in this now. Who was the fifth guy in the Captain America Corps, from the distant future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: I know who you actually mean, but I can't help but be picturing Dusty in this now. Who was the fifth guy in the Captain America Corps, from the distant future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WholeFnMachine Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Goddammit, May 10 brings ANOTHER $9.99 issue of Deadpool, enough of these already, I feel like every other month they do one of these & it's ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 I was someone who was absolutely furious and reviled by Ultimate Captain America when he first showed up. That and the "evil Jack Kirby" from Millar's Authority were the two things I was upset about the most in comics from that era. I'm also Jewish (whether that matters or not in this current situation). The current story doesn't bother me in the least and it thoroughly bothers a lot of other people whose opinion I regard. I'm wondering what the distinction is for me. I think a lot of it is that Millar's Ultimate Cap was meant to supersede the traditional one, a new more relevant representational Cap for a new time one that pissed all over the worth of the original, that tried to discard it. It might be how lauded and successful Ultimates was. It might have been how Ultimate cap represented Millar's current view of America as opposed to the idea of the American Dream. I think it's the difference between a new paradigm/updating and just a story, which is what Secret Empire is. I don't follow Spencer on twitter, but I've read my share of interviews and it's obvious that the intent is wildly different. Secret Empire Cap is meant to explore what happens if idealism goes wrong. It's meant to reaffirm the things that Cap stands for by presenting a villainous version of the character with some of the same elements but sent down a different path and how that can change a person. It's to create a traditional Marvel villain (like Doom or Magneto) "with a point," one who sees himself as the hero in his own story. It's about showing how that person can still be ultimately wrong. It's also to examine some negative and dangerous current trends in America, but not in that same sort of deconstructionist, gleeful, exploitative way that Ultimate Captain America did. Nothing in Ultimate Captain America was supposed to affirm what 616 Steve stood for. Millar was trying to tear that all down as bullshit and hypocrisy and worthless instead. I think the point of Secret Empire is exactly the opposite. It's much more of cautionary tale and I'm pretty sure much like with the end of AzBats or Spider-Ock, the core of the character is going to be shown as superior in just about every way to the Secret Empire version by the end of this. Look, Gruenwald's Cap is basically where I got my moral code from as a kid. He's hugely important to me, but this is just a story and one that's meant to reaffirm what's most important about Captain America by taking a few elements away and showing the difference, by showing that it took all of the elements to make Steve into the hugely admirable character we all regard so highly. I'm honestly having a hard time seeing this as anything else, and I'm not sure how people well versed with comics and well-experienced in reading them don't pick up on that. I think the execution is more than solid enough to present it as such and it's much more of a willful leap to see it as something else from the text itself and the interviews surrounding it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 9 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: I know who you actually mean, but I can't help but be picturing Dusty in this now. Who was the fifth guy in the Captain America Corps, from the distant future? Commander A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APO Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Read both X-Men books that came out today. Found them to be better than the first issues(especially Gold). The deportation thing in Gold is pretty spot-on considering today's political climate and having the Heritage Initiative lady hating pretty much every every powered group under the sun was a long-needed touch to the metaphor. Mesmero's new design was ass, though. Dude looked like a low-rent Brainiac. The rest of the Brotherhood didn't really fare much better and I'm still sketchy on Amara being there, but I'm still giving the first arc a shot. This book needs a better artist, though. The whole issue was so bland-looking that it made what should've been a fun panel come off incredibly blah. Blue had some real nice character moments with Angel giving Bobby his space and Teen Beast being a dick and then accepting Tyke's apology. Danger Room sequence wasn't bad, though Jean seems to be an even worse leader than she was in the first volume of All-New. The way Mags recruited the O5 to work with him made so much sense and his letting Jean into his head and see his past was really well done. The reveal at the end of the issue was interesting and I'm kinda wondering if Bunn would have the go-ahead to do it for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 I don't remember the 2011 Fraction Defenders comic at all. Not even a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 I remember it mostly for having "clever" lettering for a couple characters that made it physically unreadable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 It was just referenced in Ultimates 2 which would have resonated more if I actually remembered it. Also, I'd kind of like someone like @J.H. to engage me on my Secret Empire stuff in the last page or so. this is a discussion I'd like to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 The Fraction Defenders was the one where Banner was all snarky and calling Namor "Nemo", right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Matt D said: I don't remember the 2011 Fraction Defenders comic at all. Not even a little. It started out really fun and got maybe too ambitious? I just remember it ended with the Celestials killing everyone until a deus ex machina undid everything and ultimately the Defenders acted as much as observers as anything. They fail to stop Nul (and not enough is done with the idea of Nul as the Hulk's Hulk), they fail to stop the world from ending, then they don't have a super active role in undoing that. The whole thing just ended up feeling like a cosmic mystery tour of sorts. I liked Fraction's Dr. Strange though, and tbh bought it mostly to see him write Iron Fist some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Matt D said: It was just referenced in Ultimates 2 which would have resonated more if I actually remembered it. Also, I'd kind of like someone like @J.H. to engage me on my Secret Empire stuff in the last page or so. this is a discussion I'd like to have. Oh no, I'm trying my best to not engage on the board regarding this whole Cap thing... I'll express my outrage on FB like a respectable comic reading psycho I'm not a fan of thisand have tried to keep an open mind but it just feels worse than my crappy City Hunter fanfic I will never mention again... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, J.H. said: Oh no, I'm trying my best to not engage on the board regarding this whole Cap thing... I'll express my outrage on FB like a respectable comic reading psycho I'm not a fan of thisand have tried to keep an open mind but it just feels worse than my crappy City Hunter fanfic I will never mention again... James You let me read the fanfic and I'll let this slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I feel like the attention on the Steve stuff really distracted from what a blast the Sam Wilson run has been. The first arc gave us corporate villains and the return of Capwolf, but later on it really hit some interesting stuff. The Americops, militarized police who are literally faceless to avoid accountability, are a pretty brilliant concept for a book like this but just when things are getting too heavy there's a pro wrestling issue. The series has just been real good. Steve Rogers on the other hand...look, I dig the concept honestly. The flashbacks are good. But honestly the strong character stuff barely hides the fact that the series is 90% Evil Steve monologuing in his lair about how events in other books fit into his evil plans. Or sometimes how events portryed elsewhere in this book do. It's a lot of monologuing and not much else. I like it but...yeah. Secret Empire started strong. Looking forward to seeing how it pans out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 On 4/25/2017 at 0:22 AM, Brian Fowler said: Hell, throw Sam, Bucky John Walker, and 50's Cap in as well. All out Captain America Battle Royal!! Hell, how about the OTHER GUY that took the super-soldier formula? The Mighty Destroyer saves the universe! I can dig that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 23 hours ago, Matt D said: You let me read the fanfic and I'll let this slide. eh my Gatchaman one was better... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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