Craig H Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'm surprised so many want him to save Jesse when Jesse just wants to die, and the last person he'll want to save him is the dick who coldly admitted to watching Jane choke on her vomit and die when he could have tried to save her. Jesse owns some of the responsibility for the life he has, but Walt is just as responsible for ruining Jesse's life. Walt was always the one to keep pushing things further and further, put Jesse's life in danger multiple times, killed Mike, let Jane die, and nearly poisoned Brock to death. Then you think about how many times Jesse practically spared Walt's life or saved his life, and Walt is put in the same position to save Jesse, he doesn't and stares lasers right through Jesse as he's about to get capped. If Walt saves Jesse, then Jesse needs to turnaround and kill Walt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Well, that's very likely what will happen. There's really no evidence that Jesse wants to die, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Maybe one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen. Blown away. My only complaint is that Skyler, Flynn, and Marie are around, yet Hank had to bite the dust. Hoping the Aryans take Marie out, to tie up loose ends. Could see Walter hearing about that, begin to worry for Skyler and Flynn, which brings him back out of hiding. Walt can't save Jesse, the Jane comment pretty much solidified that. My guess would be with Walt wounded from taking out the Aryans, Jesse ends up with the opportunity to save him, but decides not to. I agree with whoever said the gang HAD to be Nazis, as that would be the only way to elicit "sympathy" for Walt, in justifying his retaliation against them. Had just a bunch of Hells Angels did what the Aryans did, most people would probably be cheering them. But Nazi cheers? NEVER~! Really, Walt offering the Aryans ALL of his money for Hank showed there was still good left in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 So take out the flash forward stuff. Would last night have been a good series finale? Sure felt like a way the show could have ended... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Gilligan always planned it to run just 5 seasons. He thought that if it went longer than that it would just get ridiculous. It would just be implausible to have this guy running around for 7 or 8 seasons without getting caught or killed or coming to some kind of end. "Ozymandias" set a new ratings record, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yeah, they begged Gilligan to extend it even to a longer 5th. I'll never understand the sympathy for Jane. She was a sick manipulative fuck, and Walt letting her die saved Jesse's life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 She was in her mid-20's with a major drug problem. Jesse was partially the blame for why she began using again. She was doing well until he moved in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 She was in her mid-20's with a major drug problem. Jesse was partially the blame for why she began using again. She was doing well until he moved in. Yep. When I see Jane's death mention now the majority people seem to have this idea that she was the one who was all bad for Jesse (usually in defense of Walt letting her die), but Jesse fucked up her life too. Moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Jesse was certainly mostly responsible there, but with Walt, come on. She was about to kill Jesse. He was going off to die with her. The two of them were 100% guaranteed to OD and/or get arrested. Letting her die was the only way Jesse, who Walt loved like a son, was going to live. There were no easy answers in that situation. This wasn't Walt poisoning Brock or murdering Mike. It wasn't even that bad of a decision. I'm kind of amazed that maybe my favorite scene in the entire series--that Walt phone exchange with Skyler where he gives her complete legal duress and saves his family by cutting himself apart from it-is getting so little attention. I've barely read a review that's really honing in on how that was his final move to save his family, and the most insane "I love you" ever. Anna Gunn was completely fucking brilliant there as the gravity of what Walt was doing sank in. The regret on both of them was just so thick, and you could tell that yeah, these two people still really love each other and they were both horrified that it had come to this. The idea that Skyler knows that Walt just gave her every last thing he could to give her as normal a life as possible and protect her, but that she'll have to hide this from her son and sister, is just so amazingly painful. It's really all I've been able to think about with this episode. I take back any drunken, post football predictions from last night. I kind of think that Walt is going back to save his family, if Lydia/Nazis decide that they know too much. Then maybe Jesse finds him and kills him? I'd love to see Jesse kill him. But then, well, you know Jesse won't get any satisfaction out of it. This show is going to end miserably. Which is as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Execproducer Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Jane made a clear, conscious decision to join her boyfriend in his self-pity party. Her major crime is convincing Jesse he should get all of his money so they could keep the party going. Of all the characters on this show that have deserved to die, she is pretty low on the list. #1 is always going to be Walt. And yeah, the Walt-Skyler phone-call was pretty amazing. We'll have to wait and see how far it goes towards absolving Skyler because the previews for next week suggest otherwise. And Marie knows better anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I don't think Marie does know better. She's been very black and white through all of this. Of course Jane was more sympathetic than Walt--even Gus was--but watching her die wasn't even as bad as Crazy 8. Jesse can romanticize that shit all he wants, but while it was his fault that she got back on drugs, she's the one that had them on a heroin-induced death spiral. EDIT: To clarify, Marie of course knows that Skyler was complicit, but I don't think she has any idea of what's actually going on with that phone call, and I wouldn't be surprised if the phone call was convincing enough to make her have more sympathy for Sky than she did before. And as for the preview, that seemed to me to be a bit more about the Aryans, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Jones Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 One of those amazing moments that got lost in the shuffle for me on first watch but I just remembered as I was reading more about the episode: Hank acknowledging that Walt is the smartest person he's ever met. A certain part of Walt has always been looking for that respect from his family. To hear Hank say that, and watch his reaction when he hears just how much money Walt has buried, was so bittersweet with Hank knowing full well that he's a dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Marty Robbins El Pasohttp://youtu.be/BIRL_iu3eQM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Jane made a clear, conscious decision to join her boyfriend in his self-pity party. Her major crime is convincing Jesse he should get all of his money so they could keep the party going. Of all the characters on this show that have deserved to die, she is pretty low on the list. #1 is always going to be Walt. If you have ever met a parasitic, self-destructing drug couple in real life, you will never ever ever have sympathy for Jane. I am so completely pissed that I fell asleep before the replay last night, do not have a DVR, and have to pray I'm not working or busy with band practice when this episode airs again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yeah, they begged Gilligan to extend it even to a longer 5th.Unfortunately, that's not really true. When Gilligan said he wanted to end the show in season 5, AMC only offered him a budget for 6 to 8 episodes TOTAL. Not even the 8-and-8 deal that they settled on. 8 episodes and done. It took Gilligan and Sony shopping the show to other networks for AMC to finally agree to the 8-and-8 split.I sincerely hope somebody at AMC remembers that every time this season sets a new all-time high.I don't know if there was a change at the top of the network, or if they just got lucky with MAD MEN and BREAKING BAD, but they have been doing their best to fuck up ever since. And it must have finally dawned on somebody there just how far up Shit Creek they were going to be after 2014, because they just announced the last season of MAD MEN has been split into a similar 7-and-7 deal. You know, so they can keep milking that teat for every last drop of critical acclaim before they're left with...THE WALKING DEAD...and...HELL ON WHEELS? Lol.Oh, and the just-announced WALKING DEAD SPIN-OFF. They are just grasping at every straw they have left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Oh shit, I thought Gilligan wanted a regular season and they wanted it split. The Walking Dead is pretty shitty, but it's a ratings monstrosity. But that's just awful about a spin-off. Hopefully Better Call Saul does well, speaking of spin-offs. They totally struck lighting with Mad Men/Breaking Bad, but those two shows came about at a really solid window for experimental television. I mean, the only other shows really of that caliber are Sopranos, The Wire, and *just maybe* Game of Thrones. It's not like anyone has a track record doing this consistently, though at least with a network like FX or even HBO, they've mastered consistency if not greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hey, AMC's got "Low Winter Sun," they'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 It's just amazing that they went from having spectacular taste to having absolute dogshit taste. I mean, even with THE WALKING DEAD, though they ultimately squandered it's creative potential and it's become a mostly-bad show, you have to give them a lot of credit for at least recognizing the potential of that property. And the pilot is still fucking fantastic. But ever since, it's been one misstep after another. And judging by LOW WINTER SUN, they haven't regained their footing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Yeah, they begged Gilligan to extend it even to a longer 5th.Unfortunately, that's not really true. When Gilligan said he wanted to end the show in season 5, AMC only offered him a budget for 6 to 8 episodes TOTAL. Not even the 8-and-8 deal that they settled on. 8 episodes and done. It took Gilligan and Sony shopping the show to other networks for AMC to finally agree to the 8-and-8 split.I sincerely hope somebody at AMC remembers that every time this season sets a new all-time high. I don't know if there was a change at the top of the network, or if they just got lucky with MAD MEN and BREAKING BAD, but they have been doing their best to fuck up ever since. And it must have finally dawned on somebody there just how far up Shit Creek they were going to be after 2014, because they just announced the last season of MAD MEN has been split into a similar 7-and-7 deal. You know, so they can keep milking that teat for every last drop of critical acclaim before they're left with...THE WALKING DEAD...and...HELL ON WHEELS? Lol. Oh, and the just-announced WALKING DEAD SPIN-OFF. They are just grasping at every straw they have left. I have a friend who still watches Hell on Wheels. He's the only one I know who watches it and he told me that it's probably gonna die soon since it just got moved to either Friday or Saturday night. They're basically only going to have The Walking Dead and despite the show's popularity, it's a pretty terrible show. Sunday nights is the big hangout night for my core group of friends and I and while we always watch TWD, it's usually filled with groans and snarky comments. I really only watch it just because everyone else does and I don't want to feel left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 I'm shocked at The Walking Dead hate here. Each season has gotten better and better, if anything, the first season is the one that fell way short. Because it's a ratings juggernaut, is it just the cool show to shit on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Eh, season 3 was an improvement over season 2, but I don't know if I'd say it keeps getting "better and better," because I thought the best parts of season 3 came in the first half and it ended kinda flat. At this point, I'd say it's more of a "disappointing" show than an offensively bad one. The amazing pilot episode seemed to promise a smarter, more lyrical, longform exploration of your typical zombie apolcalypse scenario, which was exciting; but what we've ended up with is just, like, a really long typical zombie movie that is ocassionally poigniant, but mostly silly or kinda boring or some combination thereof. (season 2...ugh). I mean, I still watch it, so it hasn't quite crossed the threshold into being so utterly stupid that I can't be bothered to waste my time with it (where SONS OF ANARCHY is waiting for company). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 My feelings towards TWD in a nutshell: they built up the death of a major character as a huge fucking deal, and instead of feeling sorrow or despair or whatever, we all got super fucking happy because that character was *THE WORST*. If something happened last week to Skyler or Marie, there wouldn't be an overwhelming feeling of joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 The majority of Walking Dead characters are at best, just there, and at worst... totally dreadful and completely unlikable. I know almost every show has one character which fits that mold but TWD had both Lori and Andrea, and they both played major roles! It's as though the writers have no idea that they're completely worthless and even when Lori died while giving birth, something that should have drawn the ultimate sympathy, I was fine with it because she was gone. Then there was Ghost Lori. This show isn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Because it's a ratings juggernaut, is it just the cool show to shit on now? No it's terrible. Everyone is hateful, everyone is an idiot, everybody does stupid unrealistic illogical things that endanger others. If anything the spin off will be better because they'll have the freedom to not do the same nonsensical gibberish that I guess is in the comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 They are all fucking morons. EVERY DAMN CHARACTER! They sent one of the only resourceful dudes down into a well with a zombie for no good reason at one point. He went along with it because he is a fucking moron. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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