The Unholy Dragon Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 That actually brings up a good question. Is the FC collection on there actually the entire trade, or just the actual issues of Final Crisis? Does it have the two Superman issues and Resist tossed in? Because without them, it's a significantly lesser experience. Full collection, though presumably not the forthcoming remastered collection with the Batman issues and the extra pages ala the Absolute Edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Today I read Batman #20, a monthly UK magazine collecting Batman #24, Batman Annual #2 and Nightwing #21 in this order. Batman #24 continues the story of Zero Year, Batman’s origin as Batman goes up against the Red Hood gang. This magazine split Batman #24 in two parts, the first part was in the last issue and this was the second, a great issue. Batman Annual #2 sees Batman testing out the new special wing of Arkham Asylum as a new orderly starts who gets introduced to the facility, the inmates including the first one, the Anchoress. I really liked this story though unfortunately it wasn’t printed in its entirety so I’ll have to read the rest of it next issue. Nightwing #21 continues Nightwing’s issues with the Prankster, it was a good issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I can understand splitting up Batman #24 as its actually two stories, but splitting up the Annual which was a one shot seems a bit much. Glad you enjoyed the stories. The annual is actually written by another Snyder named Marguerite Bennett. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I can understand splitting up Batman #24 as its actually two stories, but splitting up the Annual which was a one shot seems a bit much. Glad you enjoyed the stories. The annual is actually written by another Snyder named Marguerite Bennett. Cheers, Eivion. The first part of Batman #24 in the last issue ended with: Selected lights go out in Gotham City forming a Bat symbol as Bruce Wayne is with the Red Hood Gang at ACE Chemicals The second part ends with: The Riddler makes his appearance taunting Gotham City. I don't understand why they split up Batman Annual #2 either. In the past when an annual is printed (Batman and Robin Annual #1 which was terrific and Batman Annual #1 which I didn't like), it means there are two stories instead of the usual three. The is the first time it wasn't printed in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Interesting, that was a good place to stop for #24 though they also could have stopped with the actual end of that particular story as well. Do they print Detective Comics in this magazine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Interesting, that was a good place to stop for #24 though they also could have stopped with the actual end of that particular story as well. Do they print Detective Comics in this magazine? I think it was a good place to stop as well. The place they did meant the second half was more action packed. This magazine always prints Batman and usually Batman and Robin. The magazine has recently started printing Nightwing and ages ago Batwoman #1-5. It's also printed three annuals and some #0 issues. No Detective Comics but there's another magazine called Batman: The Dark Knight which prints Detective Comics and Batman: The Dark Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 There is a good story focused on a villain named Wrath in Detective Comics along with the Annual focused on Jane Doe. If you can you should check those stories out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 There is a good story focused on a villain named Wrath in Detective Comics along with the Annual focused on Jane Doe. If you can you should check those stories out. Thank you, I'll keep a check on them. Do you still read Batwoman? I wish Batman kept printing them. At some point I might wind up getting TPB for the books after Batwoman #5. I remember you giving a great review to Batwoman #0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I dropped Batwoman after DC handled Williams and Blackman leaving so poorly. The last issue I bought was their last issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I dropped Batwoman after DC handled Williams and Blackman leaving so poorly. The last issue I bought was their last issue. Understandable. How was it before you dropped it, same quality I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Batwoman was pretty consistently one of the top 10, usually top 5, DC comics I was reading up until I dropped it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Batwoman was pretty consistently one of the top 10, usually top 5, DC comics I was reading up until I dropped it. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Andreyko is still a fantastic writer. I'd give him a chance on it.Also, apparently they're now going to be wrapping their run in a special next year. Or so I remember reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Only thing I have read from Andreyko was the Black & Blue story from DC Universe Presents, and I wasn't a big fan of that one. The special you're thinking of isn't being written by Williams and Blackman. Its Andreyko finishing off the story they were cut off from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 Andreyko's Manhunter series is very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Never read it, plan to at some point, but that is likely a ways off. Batman: Hush. I was never sure what to expect from this one since many seem to love or hate it w/o going into much detail on why, but I came out of this enjoying this far more than I thought I would. I dug the pushing of the romance between Bruce and Selina. I also like where it ends with Bruce not really ready due to the betrayals he was a victim of. I liked the general plot and how it played it out. I particularly dug the false clues laid out and certain things Loeb does to screw with the obvious. His use of villains and various characters also felt more natural compared to his previous big stories in Long Halloween and Dark Victory. What I truly love though is the epilogue where the mastermind is revealed. It was a great push for said character that put him own another level. Its particularly nice considering how Loeb had written the character before. While this doesn't quite have the same strength Loeb's stories in Long Halloween and Dark Victory do, I actually think the writing itself is better from the technical aspect. Thought it was a pretty good read overall. Batman: Death of the Family. The writing was technically decent, and the art added something quite nice to the atmosphere. Unfortunately this had similar problems to Snyder's Annual on Mr. Freeze where it was a case of Snyder either not understanding the character or just not caring for the character as was, using the new continuity as an excuse to screw with things. Snyder screws up the Joker/Batman dynamic in several ways. He tried to make Joker a force of nature which was the completely wrong path to head down. The Joker while an enigma is supposed to still be human in fallibility. Snyder had Bruce being afraid of the Joker which was just complete bs. Bruce has never been afraid of the Joker, just what he might do to him one day when pushed too far. Snyder had Joker using the knowledge of Batman's identity which Joker would never do as it ruins the game by acknowledging the man behind the mask. What makes this worse is the final issue was obviously written under editorial mandate as it pretty much craps over Snyder's attempts to alter the dynamic to such a ridiculous amount. I like Snyder's Batman for the most part, but this is easily the worst thing I have seen him write within the New 52 so far. Its not even terrible per say. The problem is that it ignores the unspoken rules about the Joker/Batman dynamic to make somewhat arrogant changes that actually take way a bit of the uniqueness to the relationship between the two. I'm honestly not sure why Snyder's story was ever approved. The problems with it should have been obvious from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Batman: Hush strongly divides opinion. I like it. Batman: Death of the Family also has a backlash, that might be because of the acclaim it got on review sites which some think was overblown. I liked the book more than you did. Thinking about Scott Snyder's Batman stories, I'm not sure whether I prefer it to Court of the Owls/Night of the Owls. I'd have Gates of Gotham and the Clayface two part story over both. Batman: The Black Mirror is certainly Scott Snyder's best Batman work. My least favourite by far is Batman Annual #1 with Mr. Freeze's new origin which Snyder co-wrote with James Tynion IV. It's the worst story I've read by Scott Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Honestly if you can completely ignore Snyder's changes to the Joker/Batman dynamic its a fairly solid story up until the final issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Honestly if you can completely ignore Snyder's changes to the Joker/Batman dynamic its a fairly solid story up until the final issue I remember the ending coming for criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Territorial Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 As I said only a page or two back, I thought Death of the Family was quite good. I liked the Mr. Freeze story from the annual, though I'm not sure about the retcon. It didn't ruin the issue for me, though. Speaking of polarizing books, I started Identity Crisis last night. Haven't read it since the issues came out. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Meltzer's a strong writer, and I'm a fan of Morales' art. I kinda treat it like an Elseworlds book, though. I'm fine with everyone's actions and the treatment of the situation with a pragmatic, real-world ethos in the same way I'm fine with, say, All-Star Batman or Watchmen. Not sure about making super-powered rapists and mystical lobotomies part of canon, though, so it's probably best Identity Crisis gets largely ignored or retconned out of the New 52 DC. Taken on it's own merits, it's a decent read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Never read it, plan to at some point, but that is likely a ways off. Batman: Hush. I was never sure what to expect from this one since many seem to love or hate it w/o going into much detail on why, but I came out of this enjoying this far more than I thought I would. I dug the pushing of the romance between Bruce and Selina. I also like where it ends with Bruce not really ready due to the betrayals he was a victim of. I liked the general plot and how it played it out. I particularly dug the false clues laid out and certain things Loeb does to screw with the obvious. His use of villains and various characters also felt more natural compared to his previous big stories in Long Halloween and Dark Victory. What I truly love though is the epilogue where the mastermind is revealed. It was a great push for said character that put him own another level. Its particularly nice considering how Loeb had written the character before. While this doesn't quite have the same strength Loeb's stories in Long Halloween and Dark Victory do, I actually think the writing itself is better from the technical aspect. Thought it was a pretty good read overall. Batman: Death of the Family. The writing was technically decent, and the art added something quite nice to the atmosphere. Unfortunately this had similar problems to Snyder's Annual on Mr. Freeze where it was a case of Snyder either not understanding the character or just not caring for the character as was, using the new continuity as an excuse to screw with things. Snyder screws up the Joker/Batman dynamic in several ways. He tried to make Joker a force of nature which was the completely wrong path to head down. The Joker while an enigma is supposed to still be human in fallibility. Snyder had Bruce being afraid of the Joker which was just complete bs. Bruce has never been afraid of the Joker, just what he might do to him one day when pushed too far. Snyder had Joker using the knowledge of Batman's identity which Joker would never do as it ruins the game by acknowledging the man behind the mask. What makes this worse is the final issue was obviously written under editorial mandate as it pretty much craps over Snyder's attempts to alter the dynamic to such a ridiculous amount. I like Snyder's Batman for the most part, but this is easily the worst thing I have seen him write within the New 52 so far. Its not even terrible per say. The problem is that it ignores the unspoken rules about the Joker/Batman dynamic to make somewhat arrogant changes that actually take way a bit of the uniqueness to the relationship between the two. I'm honestly not sure why Snyder's story was ever approved. The problems with it should have been obvious from the get go. Regarding Hush... http://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-116-how-to-talk-to-your-kids-about-hush/ Basically, I think it's got solid character work and fun moments, but overall the story lacks coherence and just like every other Loeb Batman story...the mystery gives no real clues, and leads to a dumb reveal and horrible payoff...only this time, it was mostly as obvious as it was terrible. It's a solid enough book if you enjoy seeing Jim Lee draw the Bat-universe and the Catwoman stuff is a good emotional core to it. It's just...not a good story. As for Death of the Family...that IS a good story. I kind of feel like you've misread it a bit...or you've misread the Batman/Joker dynamic a bit. Joker is very much an equal, opposing reaction to Batman. Ergo the more human Joker reflects the more human Batman. The Bat-god take? Turns Joker into something even darker and scarier and deadlier. The Grayson Batman did something else entirely, as seen in Batman and Robin. So here we have a Batman at full power...giving us a Joker who is at his absolute deadliest. But Snyder's also been putting that humanity back into Batman...the Court of Owls showed him his limitations and made him feel more human and vulnerable than he has in some time. It puts him in touch with that fear...not of Joker himself, but of what he's capable of doing. Alfred's capture worsens that. It's what makes the ending work. The family overcomes by using that very humanity, something Joker can't consider. Batman beats him by taunting him with his own humanity...the promise of an identity long forgotten that would humanize him, something Joker refuses. The whole thing works based on both characters' standing as equal parts man and myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Hush was perfectly coherent. Its honestly a more coherent story than LH/DV. The clues are also very much there, they just happen to be false clues laid out to lead both Batman and the reader to the wrong conclusions. Hush himself isn't a great villain, but even that part of the story was a falsehood as he actually wasn't who Bruce's real opponent was. Sorry, but I liked it. I thought the reveal was great. I don't think I misread much with Death of the Family. Bruce was absolutely showing fear of the Joker himself and not just his capabilities. Bruce also wasn't at his strongest due to the Court which contradicts the idea of Joker being an equal opposing reaction and being at his deadliest. I do think you're right about to a degree about the ending. I still don't think it comes off as strong as Snyder wanted. Particularly I think Bruce believing in the Family would have come off better if he hadn't already shooed them away beforehand. All in all I just can't like it. I think its solid, but not much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Hush is exactly what it's meant to be: The comic book equivalent of a big, stupid, fun summer blockbuster. It's the tipping point on the Jeph Loeb scale, nowhere near as good as stuff like SFAS, LH, Yellow, or Blue, but so much fucking better than S/B and that abomination of a run on Hulk. Jim Lee is at his most Jim Leeness. Horrible costume design (good lord, that Huntress "costume"), solid but unspectacular story-telling, absolutely jaw-dropping splash pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 This is just an embarrassingly bad cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 seeing that right after the Hush discussion and Jim Lee's art, my immediate thought was "i sure don't remember an ugly cover like that" only then to see that it's the upcoming anniversary issue. yikes. maybe a throwback to TEC #27 from 1939 would be too obvious, but good lord. there had to have been something (ANYTHING) better than that mess. edit: just saw that this is only a variant. well, no harm done then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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