Interesting sports you follow but not enough interest for their own thread

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

 

On 6/21/2022 at 9:48 AM, Dolfan in NYC said:

I just get the horrible, sinking feeling that 20-30 years from now, the vast majority people are going to look back on this decision with the same horror and revulsion that people have when they said unfathomably stupid things like black people are better athletes because of the extra bone in their ankle, etc. etc.  

 

Well, the difference is that sports science has advanced quite a bit in the past 60 years.  How much do you really know about exercise physiology?  Or endurance sports at the professional level?  (endurance sports are running, sprinting, bicycling, swimming, triathlon, etc.).  If you follow endurance sports at all, you notice that men’s records are almost always faster across the board.  The reason for this isn’t misogyny or homophobia and it doesn’t have a lot to do with muscles and hormones.

Two of the biggest reasons are that, all other factors being equal, men usually have higher vo2 max values (the maximum amount of oxygen a person can take into their lungs and process at one time.  More oxygen you can take in and process, faster you run or swim) and higher lactic acid thresholds (lactic acid is what builds up in your system when you exercise hard.  The higher your lactic acid threshold, the longer you can run, swim, bike at top speed).  Basically, your max vo2 and lactic acid threshold are determined by a number of biological factors and aren’t going to change much just because you take hormones or testosterone or whatever.  So far, the people governing endurance sports haven’t figured out a way to level the playing field because top make swimmers and marathoners are going to have higher vo2 max values regardless of whether they transition or  not.  

(You can train yourself to increase vo2 max marginally just like you can train yourself to hold your breath longer.  But there are still limits.  The fastest female marathoner in the world is sill going to finish 15 minutes or so behind the fastest male marathoners).

There’s a lot more to it.  I’m simplifying a  fair bit but you get the gist.  If you want of know more, PM me.  I know quite a few exercise physiologists including a few pioneers in the field and I’ve been taking classes and trying to educate myself for about 30 years.  I ran track and cross-country in high school and college and have finished 57 marathons since college.  Wasn’t a great college runner, but my marathon career has been respectable.  Won age-group trophies at some major races.  I started studying sports science in the early 90’s figuring I would pick up some info that would help me train better.  I also have two physical therapists in the family, both with doctorates.  One of them works for a major D1 athletic program.

Anyway, there are of differences which are hard to overcome if you want a level playing field.  I don’t see this as an issue.  Seems like if you transition, you should expect to give up a few minor things.  I mean, I make decisions every day which affect my ability to hsve other things I want.  If I decide to leave my wife today, I probably can’t go to a thanksgiving dinner at her mother’s.  If I quit my job, I have to give back the company car.  If I become a Buddhist, I probably won’t be able to receive communion at church.  Etc.  As the wise man Jagger once said “You can’t always get what you want.”  Life is a series of choices and trade-offs.  My life, anyway.

Like I said, I know quite a few exercise physiologists, sports scientists, and physical therapists who have studied physiology at some length.  It’s cool If you want to cling to the extra bone theory to support your sociopolitical views, but I find it sort of insulting.  Most everyone I know in the field is a very smart person who studied long and hard.  Hard to believe, but they’re not misogynists or homophones just because they have a different opinion.  Actually, the more I think it, the more insulting the idea is.  Lol. Forget I offered to answer a pm if you wanted to know more.  I’d you want to educate yourself, Google!

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

2 hours ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

snipped

I'd strongly encourage you to learn what the human anatomy actually goes through in transition.

I'll give you a hint: in trans women VO2 max typically drops to the same ranges as a cis woman's within 4-6 months of starting HRT (sometimes even lower and sooner!). Most measurable metrics level out to within the same ranges as average cis women's within a year.

This is because most, if not all, scientific studies regarding trans health made literally no attempt to discern the differences between trans women and cisgender men until approximately a decade ago, and just made an assumption.

Enjoy a sourced thread.

The rest of your comment, I would suggest you find empathy for your fellow human. No, banishing an entire class of people from portions of society is not the same as you having to return a company car after you quit your job, and that comparison is both shocking and insulting.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

32 minutes ago, Stefanie Without Stefanie said:

I'd strongly encourage you to learn what the human anatomy actually goes through in transition.

I'll give you a hint: in trans women VO2 max typically drops to the same ranges as a cis woman's within 4-6 months of starting HRT (sometimes even lower and sooner!). Most measurable metrics level out to within the same ranges as average cis women's within a year.

This is because most, if not all, scientific studies regarding trans health made literally no attempt to discern the differences between trans women and cisgender men until approximately a decade ago, and just made an assumption.

Enjoy a sourced thread.

The rest of your comment, I would suggest you find empathy for your fellow human. No, banishing an entire class of people from portions of society is not the same as you having to return a company car after you quit your job, and that comparison is both shocking and insulting.

I forwarded your sourced thread to some experts.  I’ll see what they have to say.  If I’m wrong, I’ll say so.
 

I apologize for the car example.  Wasn’t meant or be offensive.  My point is the same: we all make hard choices every day and we all give up something to get something.  No choice is life has universally positive outcomes.  
 

oh, and you don’t know me well enough to know who I have empathy for or how much empathy I have.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

6 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

I forwarded your sourced thread to some experts.  I’ll see what they have to say.  
 

I apologize for the car example.  Wasn’t meant or be offensive.  My point is the same: we all make hard choices every day and we all give up something to get something.  No choice is life has universally positive outcomes.  
 

oh, snd you don’t know me well enough to know who I have empathy for or how much empathy I have.

The way you phrased your car example made it seem like you were in need to seek empathy. I'm pleased to read your apology (which I accept) and would be glad to be proven wrong. Please consider how much trans people sacrifice to be themselves as it stands, and that modern science is still very new in understanding what it means to be trans. I'd say any study that specifically does not reference being done on trans people is not an appropriate study, but unfortunately most people think that a study done on cis men is applicable to trans women. Cis men don't go through androgen deprivation in nearly all cases. Trans women undergoing a hormonal transition do, and that makes a significant difference.

I've been down this road many times.

[Robert C]

If you ever thought the team you root for is run by horrible human beings, at least it isn't run by these guys.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320

 

The headline itself is bad enough.  It somehow gets worse from there:

Hawthorn racism review to allege that former coaches separated First Nations players from families and demanded a pregnancy termination

[Dewar]

Holy shit, that is disgusting.

[Cleavy]

and what makes it worse (aside from them being my team) is that they pride themselves on being the "family club".  not to mention the current president of the club has a collection of "golliwog" stuffed toys and sees nothing wrong with that.

[Dewar]

Jeff Kennett always comes across as a dickhead when I hear him do interviews. 

Who you picking in the GF tonight? I'm hoping Buddy and the Swans can pull it off. 

[Cleavy]

6 hours ago, Dewar said:

Jeff Kennett always comes across as a dickhead when I hear him do interviews. 

Who you picking in the GF tonight? I'm hoping Buddy and the Swans can pull it off. 

former politicians always come off as dickheads

hopefully Swans (even though Buddy ditched us).  can't stand Geelong.

[Dewar]

Well Geelong laid a proper beatdown on the Swans last night. Made the decision to go to bed at halftime and watch the rest of the game in the morning an easy one.

[DEAN]

41 minutes ago, Dewar said:

Well Geelong laid a proper beatdown on the Swans last night. Made the decision to go to bed at halftime and watch the rest of the game in the morning an easy one.

What an assbeating.  I was telling my wife as we were watching it that the only guy in the league whose name I remember is Buddy Franklin.

[dogwelder]

Fishermen Team Accused of Cheating by Stuffing Fish With Weights

[odessasteps]

 

[Dolfan in NYC]

This is the most important sports post you'll see this year. 

 

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[Greggulator]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:01 PM, Dolfan in NYC said:

 

Just about to come on here to say I have been glued by the NCAA Women’s Volleyball Tournament. It is wild. All of the arenas are on the old small barn gyms at the big mega campuses and are packed. Electric atmosphere. And team volleyball is a fantastic sport. Cross-court bump sets and things like that are absolutely beautiful.

There is also a great Cinderella story brewing. I hope I do not jinx it but the University of San Diego Toereros are about to storm the gates. They lost only one match this season and should have been a one-seed but got hosed. They are playing at Stanford tonight and it should be nuts. 

[Pete]

I forget where I saw it, but someone said men's college volleyball is basically serve, set, spike while women's volleyball is all about the insane acrobatic rallies. Can't say I disagree with that based on all the clips out there.

[Greggulator]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

I forget where I saw it, but someone said men's college volleyball is basically serve, set, spike while women's volleyball is all about the insane acrobatic rallies. Can't say I disagree with that based on all the clips out there.

I will take arguments that the best female athletes in the world are volleyball players. The twitch muscles, explosiveness and agility combined with being really tall are pretty incredible. This one player on Stanford is 6’4” or so and I think she can fly. 

Team volleyball is way more fun than beach volleyball. It is also pretty east to pick up in terms of strategy and style of play. The passing is absolutely beautiful. It is also really fun when someone beats a block (which is usually two players trying to stuff the net) but one of the back defenders makes some wild save. Then there is just this insane scrambling and madness. 

[Mister TV]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

I forget where I saw it, but someone said men's college volleyball is basically serve, set, spike while women's volleyball is all about the insane acrobatic rallies. Can't say I disagree with that based on all the clips out there.

Totally, plus when it’s two evenly matched teams like Pitt and Wisconsin tonight it’s always exciting. 

[Pete]

10 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Just about to come on here to say I have been glued by the NCAA Women’s Volleyball Tournament. It is wild. All of the arenas are on the old small barn gyms at the big mega campuses and are packed. Electric atmosphere. And team volleyball is a fantastic sport. Cross-court bump sets and things like that are absolutely beautiful.

There is also a great Cinderella story brewing. I hope I do not jinx it but the University of San Diego Toereros are about to storm the gates. They lost only one match this season and should have been a one-seed but got hosed. They are playing at Stanford tonight and it should be nuts. 

You called it! USD stun Stanford for their 28th win in a row. Final Four semis next weekend are San Diego vs Texas and Louisville vs Pitt.

[Greggulator]

15 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Totally, plus when it’s two evenly matched teams like Pitt and Wisconsin tonight it’s always exciting. 

Three of the four Elite 8 matches went to five sets. Utter chaos. One of the announcers for Louisville versus Oregon said she thought it was one of the best matches she ever watched. Oregon actually had a match point that Louisville fought off. The game was also at the Yum Center and was as electric as any big hoops game they have had there over the years. I believe it was a sell-out, too. 

San Diego versus Stanford was a blast. The Toreros had to win the fourth set to survive and was a super close and wild affair before they pulled it out late. They cruised in the fifth (first to 15) but the fourth was a blast.

I caught some of the first round on the “Fifth Set” wraparound programming they had.  It was really funny watching one of the host one seeds playing someone like Fairleigh Dickinson. Texas had a wildly raucous crowd and you can tell the minnows from the small conferences probably had to wait for the co-Ed intramural quarterfinals to be over before they could set up the net. 

I am all in on college volleyball for next season. I will check out the men (they have a spring schedule) and they have some weirdo teams who are really good — did you know Loyola of Chicago won back-to-back titles within the past decade and some school named Lewis is a perennial contender? (I did not until I looked it up on Google.) But women’s volleyball is a great watch and I doubt the men’s will be as fun.

[Pete]

Crazy stat: this is the first time in the 42-year history of the tournament that neither a Big 10 or Pac 12 school will compete in the Final Four.

[The Natural]

Twat.

[The Natural]

Says it all.

[ChesterCopperpot]

JUST INCREDIBLE STUFF