Luchadore life expectancy

[Big E Lashley]

In my short time watching lucha libre (2-3 months of mostly CMLL and a bit of AAA), it appears that luchadores punish their bodies less than wrestlers in the U.S. and Japan. Maybe I'm wrong, and please correct me if so, but considering:

 

* The high amount of trios matches, meaning an individual isn't in the ring as long as a wrestler who works primarily 1-on-1 matches;

 

* An overall looser style of wrestling;

 

* Fewer weapons, chair shots, tables, fire, barbed-wire, etc.;

 

* I read somewhere that the ring surfaces in Mexico aren't as soft as in the U.S., so therefore luchadores don't take as many high-impact bumps on the mat;

 

Now I can't speak for how many days luchadores work -- if it's more or less often than your average U.S./Japan wrestler -- but from what I've seen so far it seems that a luchadore's job isn't as taxing on the body as it is for wrestlers in other parts of the world.

 

Which brings me to the question: Do luchadores have a longer careers, longer life expectancy and a lower rate of drug-related deaths and illnesses than other wrestlers? If I'm right and wrestlers in Mexico don't put their bodies through as much punishment as others, is there a noticeable correlation between that and their future quality of life?

[ohtani's jacket]

Luchadores generally have longer careers, but they wind up injured and in poor health the same as other wrestlers. The majority of them have to keep working to support their families and wrestle until they're no longer able-bodied. They quite often require surgery which they can't afford, and it's not uncommon to hear about benefit shows for the older workers. 

[jstout]

What about all those crazy-ass dives some of them do? Those can't go perfectly every time.

[Big E Lashley]

Like a basketball player of triple-jumper, I think years and years of jumping and landing will lead to knee and ankle problems down the road. That is the one element of lucha that seems more problematic long-term than your WWE-style wrestlers. And of course if a dive goes wrong there's always the potential for bad injuries. But as far as night-after-night, high-impact pounding of the entire body even if everything does "go right," it still seems like somebody like Randy Orton is more likely to develop a painkiller dependency than somebody like La Sombra.

[odessasteps]

Traditionally, lucha rings were harder than american rings.

[Robert]

Every time this topic comes up I think back to Larry Zybysko constantly burying all the Mexicans in WCW as being idiots and how their careers will be shortened with their style. Zybysko was inactive after the age of 45-ish. Meanwhile there's a laundry list of Mexican wrestlers who still wrestle in their 50's.

[Matt D]

He was happy playing golf though.

[RIPPA]

I was happy with him playing golf too

[Matt D]

Fine, be that way. 

 

I, on the other hand, think that a Fuerza Guerrera and Larry Zybysko tag team in 1986 or so would be the most awesome thing ever. 

[thecubsfan]

But as far as night-after-night, high-impact pounding of the entire body even if everything does "go right," it still seems like somebody like Randy Orton is more likely to develop a painkiller dependency than somebody like La Sombra.

 

I'm not sure about this. Orton might be taking more punishment based on the style, but Sombra's taking more punishment because the enviroment. If you're wrestling in WWE, there's a certain level of ring and arena and treatment no matter where they're working. There's a lot more variety in lucha libre, there's a bigger drop off from the TV product. Orton's working in the same ring every night, Sombra has no idea what the ring is going to look like when he gets sent to spot shows. (Kris' reoccuring series of disaster rings is pretty good for this.) Orton has quick access to the same doctors and massage thearpists at every show if he gets hurt and needs to be worked on; a local promoter might not have a doctor at the show, and Sombra's probably on his own getting help if he needs it. Sombra is probably working more times a week and more often works multiple times per day. Both know to work easier on lesser shows, but easier for a lucahdor still means doing a dive to the floor, and those add up. And when they turn it all the way up, Sombra is doing moves and taking bumps which wouldn't be allowed in WWE today (though Orton is definitely taking more weapon/chair spots.)

 

(There used to be a lot of talk that luchadors didn't have medicinal pain killer issues because they drank instead. I don't know if that was ever true, but it's not true now.)

[Spritenaut 32]

My feeling is that luchadores might be more likely to live longer, but a guy like Orton is more likely to still be walking when he's 60.

[Hector]

Some of it has to do with the fact that luchadores are much smaller than the six footers in the U.S. and Japan. It results in less wear and tear on the body. If Virus and Casas were nearing 6'0 they would be wrestling like mummies by now. 

[Matt D]

What's the verdict on Steroid use?

[odessasteps]

What's the verdict on Steroid use?

Gronda.

[thecubsfan]

Definitely present? Quite obviously?

[ohtani's jacket]

Some of it has to do with the fact that luchadores are much smaller than the six footers in the U.S. and Japan. It results in less wear and tear on the body. If Virus and Casas were nearing 6'0 they would be wrestling like mummies by now. 

 

Maybe, but look what happened to the big bumpers from the 80s like Pirata Morgan, Emilio Charles Jr., and La Fiera.

 

A lot of that generation have died young -- Bestia, Texano, Azteca, Emilio.

[Cobra Commander]

would it be reasonable or accurate to think that working trios matches is a little better for the long-term outlooks than if they were working singles matches with so many big spots? i'm guessing some sad person with too much time could do a count for "ring time" for each of the 3 guys in a trio and see if that ring time goes down much as the guy gets older.

[Robert]

 

Some of it has to do with the fact that luchadores are much smaller than the six footers in the U.S. and Japan. It results in less wear and tear on the body. If Virus and Casas were nearing 6'0 they would be wrestling like mummies by now. 

 

Maybe, but look what happened to the big bumpers from the 80s like Pirata Morgan, Emilio Charles Jr., and La Fiera.

 

A lot of that generation have died young -- Bestia, Texano, Azteca, Emilio.

 

 

 

Liver disease, pneumonia, heart attack, kidney failure. Also, La Fiera was stabbed to death.

 

Not seeing the connection you are making here with big bumpers and dying young.

 

You can certainly make the case the bigger bumpers from the 80's end up shells of themselves later in life but I don't see any connection that leads to death via crazy bumps unless you take some detours on the way. (i.e. bumps = pain = heavy drinking = health issues)

 

For what it's worth El Dandy, Jerry Estrada, Mocho Cota, Talisman, Sangre Chicana... all big bumpers from the 80's who are still alive. Couple of them even still wrestle occasionally unfortunately.

[ohtani's jacket]

My point was that there are guys in lucha who wind up as physical wrecks. I don't know if wrestling or the wrestling lifestyle contributed to Emilio or Bestia's health problems, but they weren't in fantastic shape before they got sick. A lot of retired luchadores aren't in fantastic shape either, and there are plenty of broken down guys still working in Mexico. The deaths may be coincidental, but the physical effects are noticeable. 

[Cristobal]

For what it's worth El Dandy, Jerry Estrada, Mocho Cota, Talisman, Sangre Chicana... all big bumpers from the 80's who are still alive. Couple of them even still wrestle occasionally unfortunately.

Who are...nope, not gonna say it. Not gonna have that be my first post in the lucha forum be that.

[Spritenaut 32]

Who are we to.... um.... question... El Dandy?

[Cobra Commander]

would it be inaccurate to note that there really aren't a lot of wrestlers in any country regularly working past 50 that aren't close to physical wrecks? although maybe the regular old guys in Lucha get more work than in Japan or US Indies

[OSJ]

Most of you haven't experienced this yet and some of you won't believe it or at least won't believe that it applies to you. I don't care if you are a luchadore, a WWE wrestler, or a part-timer that wrestles for shits and giggles at the local flea market every weekend, or a mailman or a cubicle worker. Once you hit a certain age, things start breaking down. It's safe to say that 50 is going to be the average for a lot of folks. Sure, there are genetic freaks like Lou Thesz, Nolan Ryan, who are seemingly ageless, but the bottom line is that the body starts breaking down. My knees and ankles started to go in my forties, but being a jackass I kept playing fast pitch and modified softball every weekend as a shortstop until I got tired of spending every Sunday evening soaking my legs in an ice bath. I made it to 53 playing with guys twenty or more years younger and if I had to do it again, I wouldn't change a thing. But the fact remains, I couldn't do the stuff at 50 that I could at 35. Not as much range, little bit slower, injuries took a little longer to heal... That's what awaits us all regardless of occupation.

 

As for who has it rougher the WWE guys or the typical luchadore; the WWE may have the higher impact spots but they also have access to state of the art medical care and therapy. The lucha guys often work three shows a day on the weekend and are completely left to their own devices when it comes to medical care. Most can't afford to miss bookings as there are far too many guys waiting in the wings to take a spot away so they'll just gobble some painkillers and wash it down with tequila.