AUGUST WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Petey]

Cristobal the voice of reason.

[Vincey Greene]

Not trying to troll, but could someone please explain what they mean when they say "Southern style wrestling"? What traits make it discernibly different from current WWE, and why exactly would it work?

It just feels to me like a generic term for "I liked this thing when I was young, and other people will still like this thing now". You could paste any territory there, but it's always "Southern". Why not a "Portland style", or "Stampede style" fed? It certainly shouldn't be because of some imagined WCW fanbase that's just waiting around to be roped back in.

More heel driven. In WWE the heels are props for the mega face. The Hulk Hogan, even if it's Rock or SCSA or Cena. In southern wrestling it was generally the opposite, whether that heel was Flair or Vader or the nWo. Sting was a mega face but pretty much nobody else was. Additionally the presentation tended to be much more sport-ish and the violence tended to be portrayed as more harsh and realistic. I think it would work because it did before and because WWE has some obvious flaws.

[SirSmUgly]

Not trying to troll, but could someone please explain what they mean when they say "Southern style wrestling"? What traits make it discernibly different from current WWE, and why exactly would it work? 

 

No, this is a great question. I can only tell you what this means to me:

 

Some of the elements that worked in major Southern-based promotions that I can think of are these:

 

1. A renewed emphasis on the wrestling itself. If you watch WCW shows, those guys will cheer or boo good wrestlers even if they haven't been built up as characters. That's not to say that Southern wrestling fans don't care about story, but they are definitely open to seeing quality wrestling on the undercards of their shows. I think a Southern promotion that partnered with NJPW, for example, could do a lot of fun undercard stuff for those fans, whereas there is no way NJPW wrestlers coming to WWE would work.

 

2. Likewise, the focus on rankings/titles/title shots seems to go over really well with those fans, so more of a sports-build type of approach in that way would be a good way to develop a Southern-style federation.

 

3. Integrated into this is the emphasis of managers as businessmen; part of the "sports build" was the concept of managers that helped you make money and handled your business deals. This is a small thing, but it is kinda important. I feel like the managers in WWE tended to be less about business deals, etc., and more about just being complimentary to their charges and giving the wrestler's gimmick a certain mystique or emphasizing the gimmick. Paul Bearer wasn't about money, he was about creepy zombie shit. Oscar wasn't about money, he was about terrible freestyling. Virgil was about money, but more in the "I work for this guy even though he demans me" way, not the "cutting business deals" way, etc. WWE has a couple of guys like that - Heenan, Heyman, Jimmy Hart - but there are more Zeb Coulter types that are characters to enhance the gimmick.

 

4. Jerry Springer-like storylines (not Crash TV, but really personal stuff about relationships, etc.) seem to work well. Valets in NWA, for example, were there to be protected by their men. Southern shows tended to really emphasize chivalric values and codes of honor, as silly as that may sound. I think this is true to an extent in WWE, but their storylines play like a really broad good versus evil sort of thing, whereas Southern wrestling is more focused on the concepts of honor and this very old-fashioned concept of what it means to be a man. 

 

5. Studio shows. Watching Memphis, Florida, Georgia, or NWA in general in the mid-'80s, and that is really a signature type of show. You can hear the angry people in the front row shouting down heels; the whole thing feels intimate. I feel like most other territories relied more on arena shows than those small studio shows that Southern promotions had.

 

I could be mistaken about some of these ideas that I have about what feels uniquely Southern wrestling, but those are the things I see that seem to fit fairly specific characteristics of that type of wrestling and wrestling show. 

[cool arrow]

Another thing I associate with southern rasslin' is an emphasis on tag teams.

[Casey]

"southern wrestling" doesn't even exist in the South

[The Comedian]

Many years ago on DVDVR one of the lads wrote an excellent piece on how Southern wrestling was generally framed in the context of the Civil War from the Confederate point of view. Basically, it's gutsy babyfaces fighting valiantly in a (usually) losing cause against heels with superior numbers and firepower.

[E.J.]

Vince Russo will be on reddit tomorrow doing an AMA. This will be interesting.

[Web Conn]

Many years ago on DVDVR one of the lads wrote an excellent piece on how Southern wrestling was generally framed in the context of the Civil War from the Confederate point of view. Basically, it's gutsy babyfaces fighting valiantly in a (usually) losing cause against heels with superior numbers and firepower.

So like Dusty and the Horsemen. Shit they broke his arm and his leg. And it got him super over. The internet nowadays would be pissing and moaning saying that he was being buried if it happened today. But it worked he was the American Dream all it did was light a fire under his ass and he HAD to get them back for his pride and for the fans. I got off topic here but you get the idea.

[cool arrow]

Vince Russo will be on reddit tomorrow doing an AMA. This will be interesting.

 

I predict many instances of the word "bro" as well as the phrase "what people don't understand." What I do not expect: him accepting any blame for anything.

[Craig H]

 

Not trying to troll, but could someone please explain what they mean when they say "Southern style wrestling"? What traits make it discernibly different from current WWE, and why exactly would it work?

It just feels to me like a generic term for "I liked this thing when I was young, and other people will still like this thing now". You could paste any territory there, but it's always "Southern". Why not a "Portland style", or "Stampede style" fed? It certainly shouldn't be because of some imagined WCW fanbase that's just waiting around to be roped back in.

More heel driven. In WWE the heels are props for the mega face. The Hulk Hogan, even if it's Rock or SCSA or Cena. In southern wrestling it was generally the opposite, whether that heel was Flair or Vader or the nWo. Sting was a mega face but pretty much nobody else was. Additionally the presentation tended to be much more sport-ish and the violence tended to be portrayed as more harsh and realistic. I think it would work because it did before and because WWE has some obvious flaws.

 

 

Wow, if that's southern wrestling, I need to start watching more of it. 

[Matt D]

Dusty may beat Tully and win Baby Doll for a month, but she's just going to ride off on that damn horse and cost Magnum the US title for Tully.

[Dre013]

Many years ago on DVDVR one of the lads wrote an excellent piece on how Southern wrestling was generally framed in the context of the Civil War from the Confederate point of view. Basically, it's gutsy babyfaces fighting valiantly in a (usually) losing cause against heels with superior numbers and firepower.

That's an excellent explanation...I would've thrown in the believability factor (2nd/3rd generation stars, former professional/collegiate athletes) but that's nonsense. Thanks.

[Skelemania]

Why the hell is Vince Russo everywhere right now? Trying to cash in on his "fame" from being outed from TNA? Just looking for money so trying to keep his name out there? He's on Twitter, he has a webpage, he has a podcast, apparently doing an AMA on Reddit now? What the fuck? Why won't this guy go away?

[Petey]

 

Many years ago on DVDVR one of the lads wrote an excellent piece on how Southern wrestling was generally framed in the context of the Civil War from the Confederate point of view. Basically, it's gutsy babyfaces fighting valiantly in a (usually) losing cause against heels with superior numbers and firepower.

So like Dusty and the Horsemen. Shit they broke his arm and his leg. And it got him super over. The internet nowadays would be pissing and moaning saying that he was being buried if it happened today. But it worked he was the American Dream all it did was light a fire under his ass and he HAD to get them back for his pride and for the fans. I got off topic here but you get the idea.

 

I think if the company was well booked and had loyal/non-jaded fans, they would be more willing to let angles and storylines play out before jumping to conclusions. I didn't watch ECW first hand but it didn't seem like the fans were ever all that concerned about Guy X getting buried or Wrestler Z not getting pushed quick enough. I did watch a lot of Gabe Sapolsky-era ROH and while there was definitely stuff that fans didn't like, for the most part, things were always given time to develop and play out before people started criticizing.

[Big Fresh]

Is something going on with Undertaker, health-wise? Or is everyone on Facebook just a moron?

[Rev Ray]

Dusty may beat Tully and win Baby Doll for a month, but she's just going to ride off on that damn horse and cost Magnum the US title for Tully.

 

Dusty had to put that poor ol' horse down!

[THEmanWITHnoNAME]

Vince McMahon was responsible for how strong John Cena was portrayed on this week's WWE RAW. Vince wrote and put together all material for Cena this week.

Vince reportedly felt that with Brock Lesnar dominating their match at SummerSlam, some of Cena's fans may lose faith in him unless he made an immediate, strong statement on RAW.

 

 

Oh fuck you, Vince. You short sighted old fuck.

[Rehabilitated Rick]

 

Vince McMahon was responsible for how strong John Cena was portrayed on this week's WWE RAW. Vince wrote and put together all material for Cena this week.

Vince reportedly felt that with Brock Lesnar dominating their match at SummerSlam, some of Cena's fans may lose faith in him unless he made an immediate, strong statement on RAW.

 

 

Oh fuck you, Vince. You short sighted old fuck.

 

[mattdangerously]

Vince McMahon was responsible for how strong John Cena was portrayed on this week's WWE RAW. Vince wrote and put together all material for Cena this week.

Vince reportedly felt that with Brock Lesnar dominating their match at SummerSlam, some of Cena's fans may lose faith in him unless he made an immediate, strong statement on RAW.

Oh fuck you, Vince. You short sighted old fuck.

There's nothing wrong with protecting the company gravy train. If Wyatt can't bounce back from that then he doesn't deserve a top spot.

[rzombie1988]

Not trying to troll, but could someone please explain what they mean when they say "Southern style wrestling"? What traits make it discernibly different from current WWE, and why exactly would it work? 

 

It just feels to me like a generic term for "I liked this thing when I was young, and other people will still like this thing now". You could paste any territory there, but it's always "Southern". Why not a "Portland style", or "Stampede style" fed? It certainly shouldn't be because of some imagined WCW fanbase that's just waiting around to be roped back in.

I think the big things are:

- The wrestlers actually look like and behave like people you'd see walking down the street. I can see myself running into a Dusty at the bar or a Lawler at an autoparts store. I don't see myself running into a Hogan, Andre or Ultimate Warrior.

- Taped from a studio. Continental made that switch around 84/85 and you can easily see the differences.

- More focus on hometown stuff with local charities, businesses and people involved, especially with Memphis. I'm pretty sure you could find Lawler or Dundee without much of a problem in Memphis if you tried. Good luck trying to flag down Hogan.

- More focus on blood/violence - Southeastern and Memphis ran some pretty vicious angles for their time and had no problem spilling the blood. Same with the NWA.

- More focus on family/relationships - The southern promotions were ruled with families whether it be The Armstrong's, The Fuller's, The Anderson's or others. The WWF never really got that.

- More about honor and being a "man".

- More willing to cross the line and be un-PG.

- A lot more punches and basic moves for finishes as opposed to the "finishing move" like Hogan's legdrop, or Savage's elbow and so on.

 

You watch a Memphis show from 1986 and a WWF show from the same period and they are absolutely nothing alike.

[Jerry Hattrick]

 

 

The Kip Frey era was waaay better, imo.

What of note happened during the "Kip Frey era"? Being dead serious. I'm talking angles and matches wise.

 

 

The Dangerous Alliance. 

 

it was basically the equivalent of WWE last year, with the SHIELD having amazing TV matches ever week, usually twice a week.

 

I think The Dangerous Alliance was the first heel group that I enjoyed and supported.At that time, even before the Horsemen. I thought the 4H was big ol' meanies back in the mid '80s

[TerjeRUN]

Why the hell is Vince Russo everywhere right now? Trying to cash in on his "fame" from being outed from TNA? 

 

Basically. 

[BurningBeard]

The way I always figured WCW was there was a head guy in charge of hiring and firing and steering the ship (Herd, Frey, Bischoff) and a booker or booking committee who would try and make good shows based on what the head envisioned

[Phantom Lord]

 

Not trying to troll, but could someone please explain what they mean when they say "Southern style wrestling"? What traits make it discernibly different from current WWE, and why exactly would it work? 

 

It just feels to me like a generic term for "I liked this thing when I was young, and other people will still like this thing now". You could paste any territory there, but it's always "Southern". Why not a "Portland style", or "Stampede style" fed? It certainly shouldn't be because of some imagined WCW fanbase that's just waiting around to be roped back in.

I think the big things are:

- The wrestlers actually look like and behave like people you'd see walking down the street. I can see myself running into a Dusty at the bar or a Lawler at an autoparts store. I don't see myself running into a Hogan, Andre or Ultimate Warrior.

- Taped from a studio. Continental made that switch around 84/85 and you can easily see the differences.

- More focus on hometown stuff with local charities, businesses and people involved, especially with Memphis. I'm pretty sure you could find Lawler or Dundee without much of a problem in Memphis if you tried. Good luck trying to flag down Hogan.

- More focus on blood/violence - Southeastern and Memphis ran some pretty vicious angles for their time and had no problem spilling the blood. Same with the NWA.

- More focus on family/relationships - The southern promotions were ruled with families whether it be The Armstrong's, The Fuller's, The Anderson's or others. The WWF never really got that.

- More about honor and being a "man".

- More willing to cross the line and be un-PG.

- A lot more punches and basic moves for finishes as opposed to the "finishing move" like Hogan's legdrop, or Savage's elbow and so on.

 

You watch a Memphis show from 1986 and a WWF show from the same period and they are absolutely nothing alike.

 

 

You would never see Macho Man put Miss Elizabeth's hair up in a match, but Bill Dundee sure as hell would put his wife's up.

 

Heyman explained it perfectly on the newest Stone Cold Podcast. The WWE is all about the face being the be all end all. Everything revolves around them. You know if something happens they'll get their revenge. In the NWA, it was about the journey of the face trying to get that revenge.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

Dusty may beat Tully and win Baby Doll for a month, but she's just going to ride off on that damn horse and cost Magnum the US title for Tully.

 

When you fall off the horse, you have to get back on the horse!

 

BOlieve!