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2014 WORLD CUP THREAD


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So what's going on right now?  Are the "top tier" teams not as good as they used to be?  The "mid tier" teams suddenly better, or better coached?  Is it injuries?  Is it a fluke?  Like, I know every now and then a top tier country shit's the bed (France, Italy have both doe it in recent tournaments).  But to have, really the majority of those teams unable to easily dispatch of, well anyone really all at the same time is weird, no?

 

 

Has their ever been another phase or moment in WC football where the difference between great and good teams was so little that you could hardly predict anything?

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Didn't the Americans set up camp on the other end of the country and therefore knew they had, for instance, a 3000 mile round trip for this match? They knew what they were getting into.

Well I think it was more the point that in terms of pure mileage - the US will travel the most of any team in the group stage.

Plus there was the point that the US and Portugal only have 3 days rest coming out of the Amazon while Germany and Ghana have 4.

Not saying that matters - but I think that is what he was speaking of

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So what's going on right now?  Are the "top tier" teams not as good as they used to be?  The "mid tier" teams suddenly better, or better coached?  Is it injuries?  Is it a fluke?  Like, I know every now and then a top tier country shit's the bed (France, Italy have both doe it in recent tournaments).  But to have, really the majority of those teams unable to easily dispatch of, well anyone really all at the same time is weird, no?

 

 

Has their ever been another phase or moment in WC football where the difference between great and good teams was so little that you could hardly predict anything?

I would not be surprised if part of it was teams from top leagues feeling results from playing a full league schedule + club competition. For example, Ronaldo played full La Liga season + Champions League + Copa Del Rey. And so on ...

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I mean they won't literally tank but if late in the game it is tied, they have no incentive whatsoever to go balls-out.  I am just hoping it stays close in the first half.  If would also be nice if Portugal opens with an early lead to make it easier.

 

Course, it will probably be 3-0 Ghana and 3-0 Germany at halftime, just to make sure I have a heart attack.

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So, no more DVR-ing every game if you can't watch live, I guess.  There's little chance of getting through one broadcast of one simul-game-pair without some ticker/popup/announcer spoiling the other one.

For DVR-ers, tomorrow at least seems easy.  No reason to focus on Spain/Australia unless it ends up being entertaining in itself.  And you can't not watch Mexico on Univision if you have a beating heart.

Tuesday, Italy-Uruguay is the more "important" in terms of the tournament otucome of the two, right?  along with Ivory Coast/Greece?
 

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For Piranesi

 

 

Cameroon, Spain, Australia, England, and Bosnia are all mathematically eliminated.  Japan remains mathematically alive but they have to beat Colombia and and by a big margin and/or while scoring a lot of goals to do so... so yeah.  Honduras is also theoretically alive but they're 4 behind Ecuador in goal differential and they're not scoring 4 on SWI unless they murder the goalie beforehand.  Which they might try.  But actually not even then because they're that bad at scoring.  Brazil is not mathematically in and could actually lose a tiebreaker to Croatia if they somehow lost to Cameroon and Croatia tied but LOOLJSDLDKHJL:DSKLDSGJDKSLG:SHFKLDFJ:DS so just assume they're the group A winner

 

A:  MEX vs CRO is basically an elimination game while BRA wins the group by curbstomping Cameroon (BRA v CAM is good if you like a Squash Match)

B:  NED vs CHI is for knockout phase positioning i.e. Avoiding Brazil

C:  CIV vs GRE is for 2nd place in that group (again, Japan could have a shot but don't bet on it)

D:  ITA vs URG is effectively an elimination game.  And for second place unless ENG rises from the grave to beat CRC

E:  FRA vs ECU is probably more fun unless the idea of Swiss people getting mugged appeals to you, as HON can hurt people but can't score.  SWI and ECU are both in with a win.

F:  ARG clinched, BOS out.  So it's whether you want to watch ARG scrimmage with Nigeria or Iran fight for life against Bosnia

G: GHA vs POR is a fight for a chance to live that won't even matter if/when USA and GER fingerpoke of doom each other

H:  ALG vs RUS is basically an elimination game.  KOR has a chance of backing in if they run up the score on an indifferent, already clinched BEL.

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I'm hoping instead of a fingerpoke of doom we get an angle where Germany pretends to lay down then hits an inside cradle for the win.

 

But yeah that could easily be the game at this world cup that hurts my brain as much as that terrible 0-0 Brazil/Porgutal game at the last one.

 

I was out all day and just got the highlight version of the games now. Looks like two out of three were entertaining anyway.

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Remember when Klinsmann said you lot had no chance of winning the thing? These results are why he says that. Playing with no pressure and fear makes a boring team of middling players like the US twice the team an individually gifted group of players carrying the weight of a nation of shithouses on their back like England.

Also Roy Hodgson haha.

But no seriously, next time Klinsmann does something that makes no sense to you, assume he knows a bit more about football than you do. And a shit ton more about winning in international tournaments.

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When you compare talent levels with Ghana and Portugal (other than CR7 who is injured) US is not as far of as you would think. Guys like Jones, Johnson, Cameron, Bradley, and Dempsey might start/play significant minutes for both teams. 

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No. Probably not. There is no subtlety or craft in US soccer. Dempsey etc are products of fantastic natural athleticism and coaching from people years behind the curve. Your success comes from superior fitness levels and coaching at their level not above or beneath. Klinsmann was the right choice. Hodgson would be a bad choice. As would Gusrdiola. For opposite reasons.

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Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnson our two best players this tournament are not US soccer products they are Bundesliga products that had almost no US soccer influence. Bradley developed in Seria A not MLS, Dempsey in Premier League. All four of these players have pretty good technique, especially Johnson and Jones. I highly disagree with the notion that Klinnsmans comments motivated these guys to compete at higher levels than their usual level of play. Only Jermaine Jones has played significantly better than usual and Bradley has played some of his worst games in recent memory. Klinnsman was the right choice but I highly doubt his comments have had any effect. The non technical natural athleticism was more true in the past than it is now. Jermaine Jones goal took a hell of a lot of technique and you should watch the Michael Bradley/Fabian Johnson goal versus Nigeria to see some of the technique the US can deliver nowadays. 

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I was out all day and just got the highlight version of the games now. Looks like two out of three were entertaining anyway.

 

Algeria and Korea either can't play defense or refused to and it was great fun.  Screw psychology, lets just take turns hitting all our flippy highspots until we run out of time.

 

Whereas Belgium and Russia exchanged side headlocks for 80 minutes until Belgium remembered it was supposed to DDT somebody.

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Michael Bradley grew up in America and cut his teeth in Holland and was a key member of Moenchengladbach's team not that long ago. Not to mention his dad is a coach/manager. Jermaine Jones grew up in the States before playing Germany. FSW's point, I gather, is that youth coaching in America isn't very good in regards to sawker. You have American football coaches coaching the kids. They know how to push them physically, but ball skills and tactics? It's not so much profesionall coaches, though that's an issue too, but youth coaches. Every time England gets eliminated from a tournament, there's an inquiry into WHAT'S WRONG WITH INGERLUND'S GAME?! And the answer is always the youth system and over-reliance on foreign stars in the premiership. The youth coaches there, it's deemed, have an old school, hoof it up the field approach. When that's juxtaposed with the skills being taught in Spain and Germany, it doesn't look great for the English. Now take that and multiply it by a hundred and you get FSW's point (I think).

 

If you watch MLS, it's not a particularly skillful league. Most of the best attacking players are all pace. There are exceptions, of course, and things are improving but they are light years behind England which is light years behind many of the continental super powers. It's going to be a very long time before the US can be a true contender for the World Cup.

 

And, then... there's Canada. :(

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There has been progress at club level in England although it hasn't translated to the national sides because of worthless shite like Stuart Pearce and Roy Hodgson. I can't see it occurring in the US for a long time because your sports and your mindset is all based on faster stronger bigger. It'll take a long time before you develop players that would get "significant minutes" for Portugal because they'd be square pegs. They're extremely physically conditioned cloggers. Guys who would do well in mid table Premier League sides but nowhere else. Klinsmann is perfect because he's smart enough to set up the team to play how they are best suited. Hodgson would turn you into a two banks of four defensive team that would draw every game 0-0 or lose by a goal. Guardiola would collapse trying to explain to Michael Bradley how to receive and release the ball under pressure.

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Youth coaching in America is  very bad but it's slowly improving especially with the new academy system in the MLS (I think Yedlin who contributed heavily to the 2nd goal is the first to play on the World Cup from this system). Separate of that the point I was trying to make is that he may be underrating this specific US team by comparing them to US teams of the past and in turn overstating the impact of Klinnsman's comments. While Kinnsman should be commended for recruiting some of the more skilled German Americans and trying to change US soccer philosophy, I think his comments had very little impact. It's not like this US team is vastly overperfoming expectations. Technical ability wise this team is much more improved than past US teams in part thanks to the German Americans and players improving by playing in European leagues. In regards to England I don't really follow them to much so I can't comment on them.  

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They are close to qualifying ahead of Portugal, exceeding expectations quite spectacularly. Part of that is because they play without fear.

Maybe you're inexperienced in the world of international football (not supposed to be patronising) but playing without fear was a huge issue for Spain until 2008, the Dutch and the English.

Klinsmann won the thing in 1990. He's astute, intelligent and has lived in the US for years. He knows the sport better than most and knows what works and what doesn't. Taking the pressure off the players is pretty much all Mourinho's mystique in a nutshell. Klinsmann did it and you're reaping the rewards.

You certainly shouldn't be seconds away from beating a team containing Ronaldo, Moutinho etc with your talent level.

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There has been progress at club level in England although it hasn't translated to the national sides because of worthless shite like Stuart Pearce and Roy Hodgson. I can't see it occurring in the US for a long time because your sports and your mindset is all based on faster stronger bigger. It'll take a long time before you develop players that would get "significant minutes" for Portugal because they'd be square pegs. They're extremely physically conditioned cloggers. Guys who would do well in mid table Premier League sides but nowhere else. Klinsmann is perfect because he's smart enough to set up the team to play how they are best suited. Hodgson would turn you into a two banks of four defensive team that would draw every game 0-0 or lose by a goal. Guardiola would collapse trying to explain to Michael Bradley how to receive and release the ball under pressure.

The thing is Bradley is very good at that sort of stuff, he was great at it in Seria A he is just having a really bad tournament. It will take a long time to develop players like that but this US team took a shortcut by importing and developing players outside of the US soccer system. Jones, Johnson, Green, Brooks, Diskerud, Jóhannsson, and Chandler all have 0 (or almost 0) US youth soccer experience. Then you combine that with guys like Bradley, Dempsey, Howard, and Altidore that significantly improved by going abroad. It leaves you with a team that does not rely on the US soccer system that heavily. In the future it would be great to have a team of US developed players, but this team can be pretty successful without it. Klinsmann was specifically brought in to change the mindset of the US from extremely physically conditioned cloggers to a team that relies more on technique and possession (For the Ghana game they did revert back to the old ways which got Klinsmann some criticism in some circles). If we wanted a team of physically conditioned cloggers we would have kept Bob Bradley. 

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