WWE Battleground 2014

[Cristobal]

You'd miss PLAN C

[AxB]

Andre wasn't a "part-timer", he worked the territories. Glastonbury is not a territory.

 

Donington mate. Or Knebworth. Maybe even Reading/Leeds. But Fozzy haven't had a sniff of Glasto, and won't. There was a shitstorm about Metallica playing this year*, and they're an actual famous band that people like.

 

* There was a shitstorm about Jay Z playing a few years ago too. This was reported as a Race thing. It wasn't. It was a 'Who the fuck is this Jay Zed guy?' thing. His last hit song in Britain before he headlined Glasto was Hard Knock Life, ffs.

[SirSmUgly]

They should save one-on-one main event matches for PPV and do lots of tags, trios, and even eight-man tags that team up multiple guys from different feuds. Bring back the Survivor Series style of four-on-four elimination and just do those on RAW and Smackdown. 

 

That would be much better than running the same one-on-one match a billion times. 

[Big Z]

They should save one-on-one main event matches for PPV and do lots of tags, trios, and even eight-man tags that team up multiple guys from different feuds. Bring back the Survivor Series style of four-on-four elimination and just do those on RAW and Smackdown. 

 

That would be much better than running the same one-on-one match a billion times. 

 

This I can get on board with. Hell, I think there should be more random tag/six-man matches on PPV's. For SummerSlam, I would love a Jericho/Usos vs. Wyatt Family six man tag.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

 

Andre wasn't a "part-timer", he worked the territories. Glastonbury is not a territory.

 

Donington mate. Or Knebworth. Maybe even Reading/Leeds. But Fozzy haven't had a sniff of Glasto, and won't. There was a shitstorm about Metallica playing this year*, and they're an actual famous band that people like.

 

* There was a shitstorm about Jay Z playing a few years ago too. This was reported as a Race thing. It wasn't. It was a 'Who the fuck is this Jay Zed guy?' thing. His last hit song in Britain before he headlined Glasto was Hard Knock Life, ffs.

 

 

(Obv this is a tangent). You are forgetting Bonnie & Clyde was a number two hit in the UK. It wasn't a race thing, but it was a smug cultural hegemonic thing. People going to Glasto knew damn well who 'Jay Z' was, it's just that a few blowhards like Noel Gallagher didn't think he was the right fit for their idea of what should headline the main stage.

 

Metallica resistance seems to have been a similar thing ('That's what Donnington and Reading are for'), but with added animal rights protests and an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff. 

 

I doubt Fozzy will ever play Glastonbury, though I hope for Michael Eavis to troll the attendees by billing Devin Townsend as a headliner for the final Glastonbury.

[Cole Miner]

We've had this discussion a hundred times but a huge problem is also the amount of TV time. If you're going to have John Cena appear on both RAW and SD! and PPVs, that's a ton of fucking Cena over the course of a month and he's required to wrestle on most of those shows also..   Last night felt like a RAW because there was nothing on it that couldn't have been on RAW any other week. That's why fresh faces absolutely need to be pushed. So many of these guys whether it's Cena, Orton, Kane, etc. are so stale. If I didn't watch RAW tonight I wouldn't feel like I'd be missing much. When Bryan, Wyatts, Cesaro and The Shield were taking over most of the TV time I felt I needed to see it.

I've been suffering from some serious wrestling burnout for a while now. A part of it is how redundant it is like you say. Another part is how everything peaks at Mania and the post Mania RAW. Those crowds are great but it is an atmosphere that can't really be sustained or followed. So the stuff that follows looks worse by comparison. WWE production makes the crowd such a part of the show that show quality now seems like it in the hands of the fans not the performers. Especially since so few performers even know how to work a crowd now. It can be a frustrating experience as a viewer.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Does anyone remember No Way Out from I want to say 2004. I think Angle was the champion and he and Team Angle had a six man against like Brock, Benoit and someone else. Anyway, I remember it being a great match. I'm not saying that the title shouldn't be defended at every PPV BUT this was a great example of how to extend a main event feud without running the same match into the ground over and over..

[Ziggy]

I just went back and watched Wyatt/Jericho since the feed froze up.  I absolutely do think that Jericho should have won there in the fashion he did, with Harper/Rowan removed from the match and Bray clearly off his game because of it.  Y2J just got back, and everyone was assuming that he was just coming back to do a quick job like he always does.  This gives some credibility back to Jericho, who actually should be a credible opponent, and will allow Bray to go over-the-top and theatrical in the continuation of the feud.  It will probably build to SummerSlam with Jericho losing in a dramatic fashion and leaving again and the Wyatts will look awesome.

 

If Bray takes out Jericho at Battleground, then what next?  Either he moves on (to who?) or Jericho wants a "fair fight" with some stipulation or other.  Jericho would also lose that rematch and neither Bray nor Jericho would get any rub whatsoever.

I like Jericho but my only problem with him winning is the fact that he didn't go  into the match undefeated.  Enjoyed the match though and I hope Jericho stays strong. 

[Stevie Ray Von Erich]

 

 

The crowd wants Ziggler to have his day so bad. 

The thing is, he already has had his day. It's like when people were clamoring for Bryan to FINALLY win the title when he had already won both the World and even WWE titles. The people don't want Ziggler to have his day, they want him booked exactly the way they want, which is an entirely different drive than wanting to see the underdog finally triumph.

This isn't to say the way he's been booked has been good or interesting, but I think it's an important distinction to make.

 

 

I would like to understand this distinction. Outside of a few blips, the last of which was over a year ago Dolph have been consistently jobbed to anyone and everyone above the lower mid-card. He is given little to no mic time and has had little that would resemble an angle.

 

Right or wrong, this is much more than the audience not happy that their guy doesn't win every match or isn't in a prominent feud. It's more of a "Hello. We like this guy. We find him interesting. Wont someone please take notice." 

 

 

I guess my point is the blips. His run as MitB winner, the 2 (lackluster) World Title reins, his mini-push as Authority dissenter. He's had big moments, but it's clear he's not a guy that they want to push for whatever reason. It's like people still chanting for Ryder or Punk, it's great that they have heat but those people aren't chanting for someone like Titus O'Neil who has never really been given a shot, let alone a title.

Ryder and Ziggler aren't underdogs in that way. They've been used and pushed, just not consistently and not very well. It's likely their pushes were a result of their heat, but, regardless, they've had their shots and their main events. Wanting them pushed "correctly" feels a lot different to me than wanting to see them in general.

It's like trying to convince your friends to listen to a one hit wonder versus trying to get them to listen to an upcoming under-the-radar band.

[Big Fresh]

Does anyone remember No Way Out from I want to say 2004. I think Angle was the champion and he and Team Angle had a six man against like Brock, Benoit and someone else. Anyway, I remember it being a great match. I'm not saying that the title shouldn't be defended at every PPV BUT this was a great example of how to extend a main event feud without running the same match into the ground over and over..

It was just Benoit and Lesnar. The third man was supposed to be Edge, but he went out for his first neck surgery that week, so it was a 3 vs. 2 match.

[AxB]

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

Jay Z is more known for being Beyonce's husband and Kanya West's mentor/ collaborator than he is for anything he's done in his own right. He seems to have managed the jump from "Successful American Artist unknown in the UK" to "Legend in his field" better than Garth Brooks or Counting Crows ever did, I'll give him that.

 

But basically, he's the Black Billy Ray Cyrus*, in't'e?

 

* nb: Billy Ray Cyrus is only known in the UK for being Miley's Dad, and Achy Breaky Heart was a minor hit a very long time ago.

[TerjeRUN]

Jericho over bray = win. 

[bink_winkleman]

 

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

 

It was kind of the straw-breaks-camel moment where people said, "Okay, we tolerated this Load shit because you guys were so good in the 80s and the Black Album really wasn't all that bad, but no more."  It solidified them culturally as awful people who do awful things and make awful music.  There was some Mogwai quote where their drummer said Metallica were "shite" that I got a good laugh about.

 

When they played Bonnaroo, when 'Roo still had a personality, and I skipped out for similar reasons all the Glastonbury folks were complaining about.

 

Though Jay-Z coming out to Wonderwall and a prop guitar at Glasto was kind of awesome. 

 

Also, Fozzy is so awful.  I remember getting kind of sad when I first heard them all those years ago. 

[Ace]

So I'm assuming when the legends pop up and they beat up one of the current roster, that's all bad too? I heard nothing but praise in this board when Tatanka, Goldust and Mr. Perfect came back for their runs. This part timer stuff has only been prevalent since Punk first said it and now a bunch of y'all have glommed on to it. It's been part of the business since I've been watching wrestling. Time to get over it.

 

Tatanka/Goldust/Perfect weren't "part-timers".

[Brian Fowler]

 

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

Jay Z is more known for being Beyonce's husband and Kanya West's mentor/ collaborator than he is for anything he's done in his own right. He seems to have managed the jump from "Successful American Artist unknown in the UK" to "Legend in his field" better than Garth Brooks or Counting Crows ever did, I'll give him that.

 

But basically, he's the Black Billy Ray Cyrus*, in't'e?

 

* nb: Billy Ray Cyrus is only known in the UK for being Miley's Dad, and Achy Breaky Heart was a minor hit a very long time ago.

 

 

Was the Hova's Black Album really not a big deal in the U.K.?

[MMEK]

 

 

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

Jay Z is more known for being Beyonce's husband and Kanya West's mentor/ collaborator than he is for anything he's done in his own right. He seems to have managed the jump from "Successful American Artist unknown in the UK" to "Legend in his field" better than Garth Brooks or Counting Crows ever did, I'll give him that.

 

But basically, he's the Black Billy Ray Cyrus*, in't'e?

 

* nb: Billy Ray Cyrus is only known in the UK for being Miley's Dad, and Achy Breaky Heart was a minor hit a very long time ago.

 

 

Was the Hova's Black Album really not a big deal in the U.K.?

 

Yeah I also find this hard to believe. 99 Problems was one of the biggest songs of the decade, let alone Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Change Clothes, etc. and the fact that it was supposed to be his retirement album too.

[Brian Fowler]

I'm not so much finding it hard to believe as I am just really surprised.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think we can all agree that he definitely should have retired.

[offspring515]

I think we can all agree that he definitely should have retired.

I dunno, all these songs about how much he enjoys fucking Beyonce are pretty tight.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

AxB is mostly right, he was known in the UK but wasn't any kind of big deal. The constant linking of his name with that of Beyonce is what made him a star here. 99 Problems is probably the only track of his that I could name, and even then, I'd rather listen to the Barry Chuckle version.

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

I think we can all agree that he definitely should have retired.

I dunno, all these songs about how much he enjoys fucking Beyonce are pretty tight.

 

 

"Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her puss

What you think, you getting girls now 'cause of your looks?"

[Sky Blue Sam]

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

Jay Z is more known for being Beyonce's husband and Kanya West's mentor/ collaborator than he is for anything he's done in his own right. He seems to have managed the jump from "Successful American Artist unknown in the UK" to "Legend in his field" better than Garth Brooks or Counting Crows ever did, I'll give him that.

 

But basically, he's the Black Billy Ray Cyrus*, in't'e?

 

* nb: Billy Ray Cyrus is only known in the UK for being Miley's Dad, and Achy Breaky Heart was a minor hit a very long time ago.

 

Was the Hova's Black Album really not a big deal in the U.K.?

Yeah I also find this hard to believe. 99 Problems was one of the biggest songs of the decade, let alone Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Change Clothes, etc. and the fact that it was supposed to be his retirement album too.

Have to agree with my fellow Brits here. The only one of those songs I've heard of is 99 Problems, and that's mainly due to the remixed version.

[ivpvideos]

I think we can all agree that he definitely should have retired.

I dunno, all these songs about how much he enjoys fucking Beyonce are pretty tight.

"Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her puss

What you think, you getting girls now 'cause of your looks?"

Now going to spend the next hour listening to Nas and Jay Z diss tracks.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

 

 

... an extended bad taste in the mouth from the Napster stuff...

 

Wait, people STILL aren't over that? Really? 

 

 

It was kind of the straw-breaks-camel moment where people said, "Okay, we tolerated this Load shit because you guys were so good in the 80s and the Black Album really wasn't all that bad, but no more."  It solidified them culturally as awful people who do awful things and make awful music.  There was some Mogwai quote where their drummer said Metallica were "shite" that I got a good laugh about.

 

When they played Bonnaroo, when 'Roo still had a personality, and I skipped out for similar reasons all the Glastonbury folks were complaining about.

 

Though Jay-Z coming out to Wonderwall and a prop guitar at Glasto was kind of awesome. 

 

Also, Fozzy is so awful.  I remember getting kind of sad when I first heard them all those years ago. 

 

 

Jay-Z's black album smokes anything he's done since, and I'm not even really a hip hop guy.

 

And really, the guy from Mogwai talking shit about Metallica is like Chip Minton taking shots at Steve Austin