WWE Raw 6-30-14 - Return of McMahonDow!

[Victator]

People like women's wrestling. Not you, clearly, but other people. 

 

Do they?

It is rarely a ratings winner,people use the matches for bathroom breaks.

They only recently started selling merchandise for them, well since Lita and Trish left. 

I do not want to shit on them, because they are risking serious injury as much as the men and they work hard. But it is not essential to WWE beyond a small niche audience. 

[Cristobal]

People like women's wrestling. Not you, clearly, but other people. 

Do they?

Yes.

I do not want to shit on them, because they are risking serious injury as much as the men and they work hard. But it is not essential to WWE beyond a small niche audience.

This coming from someone who takes it as a mantra that pissing off "hardcore fans" (meaning himself) can do nothing but harm.

Maybe at some point you should evolve a bit and recognize that not everyone likes the same things you do, and that other peoples' opinions and preferences hold weight, too?

[Victator]

I guess, not like I am threatening to bomb the headquarters if they keep doing diva segments. It is something that is fairly benign. I just don't think it adds anything. 

And I don't think pissing me off can do nothing but harm. The parade has passed me by in a lot of ways and I get that. But that is the good thing about being a fan in this era, there is always something good to watch, whether it be current or something from the past. It is all a button click away.; 

The only stuff that really bothers me is blatant bait and switches and burying the workers. 

[Patrick B.]

The magnificent and recently discovered ability of Rusev to (at least temporarily) Babyface-turn anyone means that after he destroys Swagger and a few other hosses, Cesaro can break out by being the guy to break the clutch.  Since his strength is one of the few things they remember to mention about him, it should be him and it could be a nice upper midcard thing if they protect them both for awhile and let Rusev decisively beat a few bigger guys along the way.

 

I'll be shocked if Cena's not the guy to escape the Accolade.

[Cristobal]

I guess, not like I am threatening to bomb the headquarters if they keep doing diva segments. It is something that is fairly benign. I just don't think it adds anything.

And that's fine, but you could stand to recognize that "it adds nothing for me" does not necessarily equal "it adds nothing".

And I don't think pissing me off can do nothing but harm.

This has not been my experience with you in the past, but it's possible that the evolution I mentioned has in fact taken place. 

[ebbie]

Was anyone else really aware of the height differential between Swagger and Rusev?

Hey, I already said that Big E needs to be the tallest person Rusev faces. That short fucker.

I though Paige sounded weird in her promo. Either she was trying really hard to suppress her accent or she has some form of autism. She screams enough for the latter. I guess.

And Cesaro doesn't have any oomph to him. Good wrestlers are nice, but good workers who aren't boring the crowds are perferred.

[supremebve]

I guess, not like I am threatening to bomb the headquarters if they keep doing diva segments. It is something that is fairly benign. I just don't think it adds anything. 

And I don't think pissing me off can do nothing but harm. The parade has passed me by in a lot of ways and I get that. But that is the good thing about being a fan in this era, there is always something good to watch, whether it be current or something from the past. It is all a button click away.; 

The only stuff that really bothers me is blatant bait and switches and burying the workers. 

I think the point is that AJ and Paige are two Divas who have the ability to make the division less benign, and add something to the show other than sweet sweet T&A.  They are both good in the ring, decent characters(Paige was really good as the super serious, I'M A WRESTLER gimmick), attractive and potentially the future of a wrestling focused Divas division.  If you look at the NXT Divas they are clearly trying to bring in women who can work.  AJ and Paige are the vanguard of this, and I'm interested in seeing how it goes.

[Dog]

Is it Strikethrough Day on DVDVR?

[ebbie]

I hope not. My MLB team has been sucking ass this year.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Paige was the first divas-related thing I've been into in a while, so it kinda figures they'd take it in a direction I don't want to see it. I liked Kaitlyn too, but she was pretty much treated like shit after she won the title (common thread: AJ). Fox being crazy was fine the first time, but after that it just came off as horribly forced to me. I don't know if there's any point to this. I guess I'm just saying that I'm not opposed to divas stuff as a rule, but stuff I like is few and far between, and doesn't involve AJ. I don't really see a strong division developing while she's around, but then I didn't see a strong division developing without her either, so in that regard it probably doesn't really matter.

[The Z]

Pairing up Cesaro with Heyman after WrestleMania turned out pretty terrible for Cesaro.

It seems like the plan with Cesaro was to pair him up with Heyman and hopefully the rest will write itself. That was the entirety of the thought put into it.

Cesaro lacks a identifiable character. What exactly is his gimmick other than being a talented wrestler?

Cesaro lacks a decent entrance song. I cringe every time I hear his late 90s WCW theme.

Is Cesaro a face? If he's face why is he being managed by Heyman?

Is Cesaro a heel? If he's a heel why isn't he acting like one?

Here's what I think happened. I think the plan initially was to turn both Cesaro and Heyman face by pairing them together.

I think what hindered that was Lesnar beating the Undertaker, which as we now know was a decision that was made on the day of the show.

If Undertaker had beaten Lesnar, which probably was the plan before the day of the show, everyone would have been able to gloss over the fact that just one day before Heyman was managing Lesnar. Heyman probably wouldn't even have talked about Lesnar anymore and just focused on Cesaro from that point on, at least for the time being.

But since Lesnar beat the Undertaker, they obviously couldn't just gloss over the fact and Heyman had to revel in it, which of course meant he and Cesaro couldn't turn face.

Really?

According to Shawn Michaels on Jim Ross' podcast Vince made the decision four hours before the show.

[Cristobal]

Is it Strikethrough Day on DVDVR?

YesNo

[JonnyLaw]

 

Pairing up Cesaro with Heyman after WrestleMania turned out pretty terrible for Cesaro.

 

It seems like the plan with Cesaro was to pair him up with Heyman and hopefully the rest will write itself. That was the entirety of the thought put into it.

 

Cesaro lacks a identifiable character. What exactly is his gimmick other than being a talented wrestler?

Cesaro lacks a decent entrance song. I cringe every time I hear his late 90s WCW theme.

Is Cesaro a face? If he's face why is he being managed by Heyman?

Is Cesaro a heel? If he's a heel why isn't he acting like one?

 

 

It reminds me of Austin constantly talking about how Tom Pritchard asked "What's so stunning about Stunning Steve Austin?" and Austin didn't have an answer.  Except for Cesaro, we don't even have the question.

[Cristobal]

What's so Cesarean?

[JonnyLaw]

The brand-split was fine in theory, but after a few years, WWE completely lost interest in it and didn't really want to use it anymore.  The world heavyweight title became a midcard title.  They couldn't manage two sets of tag titles.

 

So it stands to reason the problem wasn't the brand split, but the fact they eventually lost interest in it.  Personally, I'm fine if they use it to liven up the shows and push some more talent for a while, and then merge everything again for a while.

[Greggulator]

A.J.'s heel character was a conceited little snot who thought she was better than everyone else. She's supposed to belittle her opponents and make them look like crap. She also had really clear motivations -- she hated that the Total Divas crew got all the attention she felt she deserved being the champion. And her story arc was pretty great. Her ego grew out-of-control as she kept on sneaking out victories (and using Tamina as muscle, to further her hypocrite credentials) and when she finally ran through everyone, Paige showed up and took the belt. And this happened because of AJ's hubris -- she wanted to put Paige in her place and it bit her in the ass.

I fail to see how a heel champion saying "I'm better than you and this title proves it and I've had this title longer than anyone ever" is bad or different by any stretch of the imagination.

[Cristobal]

I fail to see how a heel champion saying "I'm better than you and this title proves it and I've had this title longer than anyone ever" is bad or different by any stretch of the imagination.

We've already established that the person saying this doesn't like women's wrestling and wants it to go away. People will come up with all sorts of justifications for why things they want need to happen when they know that "I don't like it" doesn't cut it.

[Matt D]

The difference is that the huge majority of the fans hated Total Divas and thus agreed with her. There was too much truth in it.

Now if they were trying to tell a story about how the model was going to become a real wrestler like Tommy Dreamer proving himself in ECW or like, shoot: Piranisi could explain by using Pitch Perfect or something, then it works.

But it didn't pay off that way.

To me the issue wasn't the speech but the follow up. She got her comeuppance not from the real wrestler on the show in Nattie or one of the model girls or even from Tamina (who she could hypocritically hide behind) but from a second generation wrestler new to the roster.

She spent months proving all the other girls were worthless and then someone else took the belt and only had those other worthless girls to face.

[Greggulator]

This is a legitimately great promo. AJ comes out throwing fire. She sarcastically mocks the Total Divas show while holding the belt. She then insults all the ladies in the ring -- you're untalented at trying to become actresses and you aren't nearly as good as me in the ring. And then it becomes "I worked hard for all of this while you're here for 15 minutes of fame." And it ends with, "None of you can touch me, despite how great you think you are for being on that dumb TV show."

It's great. It certainly has shoot-ish stuff in there but that's not always a bad thing, especially when it's delivered as amazingly well as this.

The only thing truly awful about the promo are the reactions of the Total Divas crew. The Bellas just scream over AJ's lines ("SAYYYY IT TO OURR FAAAACE!") with a live mic right by them. The truly worthless Eva Marie just apes whatever they do. Cameron makes a "yawning" hand gesture like she's bored to death. So you have three girls trying to drown her out vocally. And then you have Cameron acting like she couldn't be bothered by what the woman's champion is saying.

The only one who has any reaction whatsoever to this in a way that could sell a wrestling match is Nattie. And, while Nattie has grown on me recently in NXT, her trying to sell angles via reactions isn't her strength.

AJ's not shitting on them. AJ's cutting a hell of a promo and these morons in the ring have no idea how to react. Did a road agent not tell them what to do or something?

[Matt D]

Presumably they didn't know it was coming?

[Greggulator]

The difference is that the huge majority of the fans hated Total Divas and thus agreed with her. There was too much truth in it.

Now if they were trying to tell a story about how the model was going to become a real wrestler like Tommy Dreamer proving himself in ECW or like, shoot: Piranisi could explain by using Pitch Perfect or something, then it works.

But it didn't pay off that way.

To me the issue wasn't the speech but the follow up. She got her comeuppance not from the real wrestler on the show in Nattie or one of the model girls or even from Tamina (who she could hypocritically hide behind) but from a second generation wrestler new to the roster.

She spent months proving all the other girls were worthless and then someone else took the belt and only had those other worthless girls to face.

 

They rebuilt up Alicia Fox and Naomi really well, though. Alicia stole a few episodes of TV with her insane person act and Naomi came off like an athletic force. Cameron showed herself as absolutely worthless.

Paige still went through anyone she went up against. And now AJ came back and hoodwinked her. They still have to have someone else make any sort of leap at some point, or have Charlotte or Sasha come up from NXT and get in the mix.

A.J. was sort of like Roger Federer. Paige is her Nadal. Now they need an Andy Murray and Novak.

[Greggulator]

Presumably they didn't know it was coming?

If they didn't know this was coming:

1) That's just bad to do on live television.

2) The Bellas have been around long enough (and date/are married to true professionals) to know that screaming to that length while someone's cutting a promo is really awful. Unless they went into business for themselves.

[mco543]

I'm looking forward to AJ turning heel on Bayley at some point in the future.

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

Got about half way through the promo and you are right. Those reactions are so bad I can't even watch the rest. They need to drop the whole division, except for a Cameron and Naomi. They need to dance in between matches like the Nitro Girls.

[Matt D]

You agree that there was a follow up issue, right?The promo could be a good heel promo but only if the babyfaces then step up to give the heel comeuppance and that didn't happen. Magnum TA didn't come into the ring and tear up Flair's suit.