DVDVRBC THE LONG GOODBYE by Raymond Chandler Chapters 1-24

[jaedmc]

I've split the book roughly in half. Discuss the events in the first 24 chapters here. Discuss how you're enjoying it so far, where you think it's headed, if you're frustrated and think it's shitty and won't finish. All that HERE.

 

If you want to wait to discuss the whole book, the "Finished" thread will go up in a week.

 

 

[Shane]

I'll have to pick up a print copy. I have been listening to it, but chapter breaks don't mean much in that case, since I sorta have to pay some amount of attention to driving! Heh.

[odessasteps]

Im halfway or so thru the book but not sure off the top of my head what chapter i have read through.

I have not read this in decades and havent seen the asltman movie in a while, so i dont remember the plot.

Oh, are we free to discuss the plot?

My first question: how do people envision Marlowe? As Bogart? A generic film noir private ete?

[Liam]

I was waiting to read this further until the threads popped up. Will go back to it - literally one chapter into it or so.

[Matt D]

I'm about 20% on my reread since I had to get through the new Harry Dresden book first and then had to wait for my wife to finish it first and etc. 

 

It's been a while since i did read it and at some point soon I'm just going to assemble passages because some of the turns of phrase are so great. Chandler, throughout his career, would jot down anytime he had a good one or some interesting thought and then he just kept a journal of them to use when they made sense in his books. It showed. 

 

I'll apologize a LITTLE bit for the length because it was longer than I thought but at the same time, it's such a quick read, page by page, I don't feel too bad. 

[Swift]

It's interesting you say that, not only about you wanting to keep a note of some of the phrases, but also that Chandler did. I'm only one chapter in, and twice, a phrase popped out at me, and I thought I should write that down for this thread, because this language is fantastic.

 

"Sold it, darling? How do you mean?" She slid away from him along the seat but her voice slid away a lot farther than that.

 

and a couple lines after that...

 

The attendant had the white-haired boy right where he could reach him - in a low income bracket

 

And yes, the narrator of my book is Humphrey Bogart.

[username]

I actually read the book over the prior weekend as... well I ended up with too much free time, but I returned it to the library so can someone please perhaps spoiler tag exactly where chapter 24 is in the story?

 

My narrator is a more generic dick as I never saw the movie adaption.

[Matt D]

My narrator is a more generic dick as I never saw the movie adaption.

 

Wait, a dick is in a jerk or a dick as in a shamus?

[odessasteps]

"it was a rainy day when she walked into my office, fella."

[S.K.o.S.]

Yeah, "shamus" is the only 50s lingo so far where I didn't know what it meant (as opposed to, let's say, "dish" to refer to a woman), and it's been used by like three separate guys.

 

I'm about a third of the way through.  It was pretty impressive how quickly I stopped thinking "this is a book from 60 years ago, things were different back then" and just straight up got into it and started enjoying the narrative.

[odessasteps]

Chapter 24 ends right before Marlowe is called to the Wade house after Roger hurts himself.

[username]

 

My narrator is a more generic dick as I never saw the movie adaption.

 

Wait, a dick is in a jerk or a dick as in a shamus?

 

 

Dick as in detective.  He's also a bit of a regular dick as well, but a likable enough one.

 

Chapter 24 ends right before Marlowe is called to the Wade house after Roger hurts himself.

 

Gracias.

[Jingus]

Amazing that neither one of the two libraries I subscribe to have either this book or the movie.  And I used to have my own copy, before I pawned the vast majority of my media collection in these tough times.  I'll either have to download it, or finally figure out how that Inter-Library Loan gimmick works.  

 

And Marlowe: yeah, I pretty much just see and hear Bogart.  

[Matt D]

I'm probably at 60% through the book now. It really feels like the thing people should have to read instead of Gatsby to me, if that makes any sense. That's not a feeling I had ten years ago.

 

Obviously, it's heavily dialogue based, but every character really stands out with an individual voice. Eileen Wade doesn't sound like Linda Loring. Roger Wade doesn't sound like Terry Lennox. The Muscle and the men-with-power all sort of sound alike, whether they're a cop or a goon, a DA or a crooked doctor, but that's part of the point. 

 

I think maybe the Marlowe-in-hock scene runs a little long but there are narrative reasons for that. It has to feel long to justify the expanse of time before he's released. It has to feel exacting compared to how the rest of the book moves and you need enough time for things to play out in Mexico. Also, it's, in many ways, the lens that all other characters in the book are first introduced to him from then on. "Oh, you did this for Terry Lennox." is their starting point for knowing who Marlowe is, even if he tries to deny or deflect it (though never fully explain). 

 

To me, the most important thing about Marlowe is something that isn't entirely clear if you haven't read other, relative books of the era. I like to compare him to Sam Spade the most, because you have Bogart playing both and Chandler's often spoken of in the same breath as Hammett. The big difference to me is cynicism. Spade has it in (well) spades. With Marlowe, it's there, but characters have to earn it. It's not that he has some sort of inherent humanism or hopefulness, but to him, people are human, and there are flaws in there, but they're not out to get anyone. They're mainly just out to make it through their day and their lives however they can. 

 

This is more a 50%-60% thing, but I think the book is incredibly self aware. Characters end up voicing what the readers are themselves expecting and it's a bit offputting, because you're not always used to that in these sort of mysteries. There's nothing that throws you as a reader more than having a character come out and voice your theory 60% through the book when you're hardly expecting the characters to be aware of it at all. 

 

I don't regret picking this one bit. Hopefully, people are enjoying it. 

[S.K.o.S.]

I'm slightly over halfway through, so this will probably be my last post in this particular thread.  The biggest problem I have with the book right now is that I don't see how what's going on is helping Marlowe figure out how Terry Lennox and his wife were killed.  I'm actually not even sure if he IS trying to figure it out.  He's not doing any overt detective work as relates to Lennox, and it's not clear what Roger Wade has to do with anything (I know there's a connection via his wife being, um, Lennox's wife's sister, I think).

 

I'm assuming everything is going to tie together by the end.

[Matt D]

For the most part, he's not. There's an element that even if he wants out of this, he can't get out, whether it be due to the $5000 or the reputation he gained for not talking to the cops, even if he had his own reasons for doing that, or just due to fate. There's an almost hitchcockian element of a man getting drawn into a situation he doesn't want to be in here. The flip side is that Marlowe can't help but be who he is and that's one part curiosity and two parts talking back to people and not being able to not call it like he sees it for the most part. His mouth and ethos gets him in plenty of trouble and then he has to sort of yank at the strings around the edges of that trouble. 

[Beast]

So I picked up the Library of America collection that has everything from The Lady In The Lake on from my local library and decided to start from the beginning with "Lake", then "The Little Sister", and then "The Long Goodbye". I'm halfway done with "Lake" and it's so, so, so great.

 

So it may be a few more weeks until I finish "Goodbye", but I am definitely looking forward to reading more.

[Liam]

Will pass comment when I have a bit more time, but just to say that I am at the end of this point of the story. Enjoying it so far. I like crime thriller books, but stylistically this is very different due to the twist on the genre and the age of the book.

[odessasteps]

Finished the other day, so waiting for the other thread.

[Liam]

I've really enjoyed Marlowe's character, his dialogue specifically. He feels like he is always on the verge of spitting out some venomous rhetoric, even at times when it seems other characters in the story have verbally got one over on him.

 

The plot is intriguing me, as I also don't really see how it all links together. Each page is sucking me deeper and deeper into the mystery and making the time fly by when I read it.

 

Interestingly, I found the noir-ish dialogue and general storytelling style difficult to get a grip of at the start - not being used to the style and tiredness was probably to blame. I felt that it sounded somewhat stilted. However, I've grown into it a lot.

[Matt D]

I find that you really get drawn into the way the book is written, the actual syntax and diction, and you have to watch out in your work e-mails and conversations with people if you've been reading too much of it or else it'll start to bleed through. 

[JRGoldman]

So I am about 75 pages in or so, and I am liking this more than I expected. I didn't think I would dislike it per say, but detective stuff has never been something I have gravitated towards. I do think Chandler does a rather amazing job of creating Marlowe's voice. It's something that has been parodied over and over, and we identify this style as a representation of a specific time and place and story, but he manages to do such a great job at it that it never comes across as hackneyed, even though it probably could. 

 

I'm glad I had to read this and get outside my comfort zone a little bit. I'm interested to see where the rest of the story takes me. 

[Jingus]

Good lines.  GOOD LINES.  All a writer needs is good lines!  Well no, of course that's not strictly true.  But it's the FIRST thing a writer needs.  Fuck a buncha plot or story or setting or meaning or ANYTHING else.  If you want to write good stuff, you need to write good lines.  I pride myself on being better than average in doing this myself, but oh shit son I've got NOTHING on Raymond Chandler.  Here's a whopper right on the first page: "The girl gave him a look which ought to have stuck at least four inches out of his back."  GODDAMN, I will NEVER be able to write a line that fucking great in my entire stargazing life.  Chandler does it on EVERY FUCKING PAGE.  He makes it look EASY, which is the sign of the greatest professionals.  

 

Chandler, throughout his career, would jot down anytime he had a good one or some interesting thought and then he just kept a journal of them to use when they made sense in his books. 

I really need to start doing this myself.  I don't because my cerebral palsy makes handwriting into an awkward painful chore, I HATE writing longhand more than words can express, and I don't have any gizmos that let me record thoughts digitally.  But I've lost plenty of good ideas just because I had 'em and then forgot 'em.  

 

 

I'm probably at 60% through the book now. It really feels like the thing people should have to read instead of Gatsby to me, if that makes any sense. 

No, I totally understand.  It's so much easier to sell kids on genre fiction than High Art involving Deep Thoughts.  If something can meld both worlds, then, great!  Like, say, Ender's Game for one random example.  Or, indeed, the best words of Raymond Chandler.  I think Farewell, My Lovely was my favorite book of his, but it's been a long damn time since I've read these things.  

 

To me, the most important thing about Marlowe is something that isn't entirely clear if you haven't read other, relative books of the era. I like to compare him to Sam Spade the most, because you have Bogart playing both and Chandler's often spoken of in the same breath as Hammett. The big difference to me is cynicism. Spade has it in (well) spades. With Marlowe, it's there, but characters have to earn it. It's not that he has some sort of inherent humanism or hopefulness, but to him, people are human, and there are flaws in there, but they're not out to get anyone. They're mainly just out to make it through their day and their lives however they can. 

 

Absolutely.  At heart, Spade is a bit of a robot and an utter bastard.  He knows this, or at least suspects it, and occasionally it bothers him.  But not very often.  Marlowe is a much more feeling character, one who cares too damn much.  (Although having him be well-read on Flaubert was a bit of a stretch.)

 

This is more a 50%-60% thing, but I think the book is incredibly self aware. Characters end up voicing what the readers are themselves expecting and it's a bit offputting, because you're not always used to that in these sort of mysteries. There's nothing that throws you as a reader more than having a character come out and voice your theory 60% through the book when you're hardly expecting the characters to be aware of it at all. 

 

Yep.  When a character in a book wonders the same thing that I do, that's a joyful experience of bonding with another human brain.  It's like a freaking Vulcan Mind Meld in real life.  You SEE them in the Avatar sense.  

 

 

So I picked up the Library of America collection that has everything from The Lady In The Lake on from my local library

Weird, me too.  That's the version I finally found, they didn't have it in a standalone.  I wish I had enough time to read all the other content in here, but I know I won't since I've got SO much other shit I'm reading at the same time now.  

 

I did recently pick up a book from the college library which was a book of his letters and essays, and it was fascinating.  Chandler just bullshitting about his ideas on storytelling, mysteries, film adaptations, and everything is enthralling.  I can barely remember any of it, I'm in that English Major Avalanche part of my life where I'm speed-reading through a million different mindblowing things, but I highly recommend it if you can get your hands on it.  

 

[Jingus]

And oh yeah, a couple other things.  It's amazing how Chandler can keep track of such a dizzyingly complex plot, with so many threads that all come together.  James Ellroy is the only other guy I've seen in this genre who could keep so many plates spinning so well.  Although sometimes it can get TOO complex; think of the infamous moment when Humphrey Bogart asked Howard Hawks "Hey wait a minute, who killed the chauffeur?" while shooting The Big Sleep and the production screeched to a halt.  Many frantic phone calls were made to various writers in the middle of the night, and I'm not sure if the question was ever answered.  

 

To those who have seen the movie: in short, how would you describe the adaptation?  

[Beast]

Finally got to this point after reading The Lady In The Lake and The Little Sister first. Lake was good although the twist was obvious from the beginning and I did not like Sister much. GOODBYE though is killer. I agree with Marlowe expressing readers' thoughts. I have never been so in tune with a fictional character who is so unlike me like this. I enjoy that he seems like a thoroughly decent guy with a set of ethics who nonetheless performs a job that is looked upon  with disdain. I still do not know how he is able to turn down so much work and money in this and previous stories. It's like he is a reluctant P.I., and just does it to have interaction with the world. Almost comes across as Zen in many of his conversations with more emotional men like Wade.

 

I also dig that just like Chinatown, we only know what our POV character does. But unlike Chinatown, Marlowe has so much to say (or think) about everything and everyone that it just feels so complete.

 

I have seen the film and although I am picturing Lennox as Jim Bouton and Wade as Sterling Hayden, I still see Marlowe as Bogart. I am looking forward to researching the film eminently. I feel like I will have a greater grasp, or at least interest this time.

 

Also, has anyone read Inherent Vice by Pynchon? It's basically this 10 years later with Marlowe as a hippie. Not nearly as God though, but still a good read.