Saddest Whedoning of a character in his works? *Spoilers*

[Brian Fowler]

Tara probably does fit it, other than her lover being female, but even more so, she falls into "all lesbians are either evil or die" with Willow briefly taking the other half, as far as unfavorable tropes go.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I actually think that the GL issue that created it all was a sort of bad example. It was very effective in context, built to, paid off well, and it was early enough in the run that Alex was pretty much there solely for that one reason. I don't necessarily agree with the exact manner of death, but i think that it was a lot more effective, than, let's say the mandatory death that every big event has to have.

And it was ruined by the "very special gay bashing" issues.

[LooseCannon]

If you want to specifically troll Johns, you should probably have her dismembered on the way to death...

 

 

She's based on Johns' dead sister, so if I thought that Johns had ruined my favorite characters, I would troll him by creating a fan comic in which she is brutally gang-raped and then killed in some plane-related death.  And I'd try to use some Greg Land-style tracing using real photographs of his sister.

 

Generally speaking, I am in favor of occasionally creating audience surrogates who viewers are supposed to identify with, giving them a crowning moment of awesome, then treating them brutally and making the audience hurt.  You can't have nice things (at least, not for long) and you don't deserve to be happy.  You should only kill off main characters after getting fans to fall in love with them and identify with them.  Or if the actor is leaving the show.

 

This may just be me being a psychological sadist who gets off on causing pain, but only mental pain and not physical pain.

[eikerir]

I was fucking devastated when Wash died.

[Casey]

I'm going to just pop in and say Fred from Angel, and then quickly leave, because talking about that last season of Angel still gets me so fucking pissed off. It needed, at the very least, a few more episodes to flesh out the season/end of the series. GAHHHHHHHHH.

[Eivion]

Voted Anya because I always thought her death was pure bs.

 

That said if we are talking saddest deaths it would probably go to Joyce or Fred. Both were done well and actually hit hard which is kind of impressive considering Joyce was never particularly likable.

 

Jenny's death was a surprise at the time and hurt just a little as you couldn't help but feel for poor Giles. At the same time it served its purpose and she pretty much brought it on herself.

 

Wash's death was a definite sad and unexpected one. I would probably have him at number 3.

 

Keep in mind Coulson's death was more Feige than Whedon.

Tara.  "Your shirt..."  Just so fucking unfair, Joss.  They JUST got back together.  Just.

Honestly Tara was a pretty horrible character up until that season and even by then I wasn't particularly sad to see her go as I never liked her and Willow as an item. She really was just there because Joss wanted to do a homosexual relationship. He never did much to make Tara a real character until he decided she was dying. I do happen to love how it all goes down though along with the consequences.

[Ryan]

I liked her character for whatever reason. I can't explain it too well.

[piranesi]

Tara was like part of who Willow was in the early seasons, but split off from her so Willow herself could become all powerful.  Like, that innocent, sheepish Mary Sue-ish side of Willow that she started to lose as she got stronger. 

 

It's like they needed that out of her character but not out of the show, so they replaced it artificially by putting a distilled version of that right next to her.  Like a season 1 Willow-patch.

 

To me the result was that she was super likable, but also felt kind of contrived...more a character-development device than a character herself.

[Ryan]

That makes a lot more sense than anything I could ever come up with beyond she's kind and interesting in a dopey kind of way.

[Eivion]

Tara was like part of who Willow was in the early seasons, but split off from her so Willow herself could become all powerful.  Like, that innocent, sheepish Mary Sue-ish side of Willow that she started to lose as she got stronger. 

 

It's like they needed that out of her character but not out of the show, so they replaced it artificially by putting a distilled version of that right next to her.  Like a season 1 Willow-patch.

 

To me the result was that she was super likable, but also felt kind of contrived...more a character-development device than a character herself.

Interesting, this feels like a good explanation of Tara. That said instead of being super likable I ended up just finding her hollow, bland, and boring. Even during the early seasons I don't think Willow was ever quite as innocent or sheepish.

[Craig H]

Wash or get the fuck out. That really bummed me out and practically took me out of the movie. Just completely pointless it felt like. So much so that on repeat viewings I'm just annoyed at that part because it didn't need to happen. It would be like if Chewie were killed in Episodes 4, 5 or 6.

[J.T.]

I was visibly angry when Wash died.  I was kinda hoping that River would buy it instead.

 

One girl in the theater was so shaken that she walked out and didn't come back.

 

The thwacking of Agent Coulson simply didn't make sense in a meta perspective so I wasn't really upset about it.

[Red is Dead]

For me, Tara's was the most surprising. I suppose it equates to the outward-breath of everything's going to be alrig-OH GOD NO moment of Joss's writing.

 

Closely followed by Jenny.

 

Not surprising to see buffy hasnt had any votes.

[Craig H]

Wash >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buffy

[Brian Fowler]

I will say that the reactions from the rest of the cast to Buffy's second death is pretty devastating.

[Big Fresh]

I was visibly angry when Wash died. I was kinda hoping that River would buy it instead.

One girl in the theater was so shaken that she walked out and didn't come back.

The thwacking of Agent Coulson simply didn't make sense in a meta perspective so I wasn't really upset about it.

You wanted River to die, you heartless monster?!?!?

[J.T.]

 

I was visibly angry when Wash died. I was kinda hoping that River would buy it instead.

One girl in the theater was so shaken that she walked out and didn't come back.

The thwacking of Agent Coulson simply didn't make sense in a meta perspective so I wasn't really upset about it.

You wanted River to die, you heartless monster?!?!?

 

 

Meta hate projected on to Summer Glau.

[Jingus]

Well you got your fucking wish in Dollhouse, didn't you?  That was the only time that a Joss death flat-out made me angry.  So pointless, so arbitrary, so shock-value-for-its-own-sake.  I actually barked "Dammit, Joss!" aloud when that happened.  

 

I got spoilered with Wash before the movie, so that didn't bother me.  I understand his reasoning on that one, where he wanted to make the audience believe that anyone could die because THAT guy died.  It needed to hurt, to give us that feeling that it might just go super-dark with the entire cast getting wiped out.  

 

I loved Tara, so she was the one I voted for.  I loved piranesi's summation of her, too.  Doesn't hurt that I'm such a softie for lesbians, something about them just tugs at my heartstrings (AND yes other body parts).  I understand why he killed her off, but it still stings even all these years later.  

 

Agreed with whoever said Joyce's death was the best fictional representation of a real loved one dying.  And hey, Fat Spanish Waiter, how'sabout NOT spoiling non-Joss shows in this thread, okay?!  

 

EDIT: and oh yeah, I'm in the camp that was indeed heartbroken by the death of Fred, but found Illyria to be so freaking fascinating that it was a worthy consolation prize.  And having them perfectly cast in Much Ado About Nothing helps add a huge dollop of meta-balm on that wound.  

[J.T.]

Well you got your fucking wish in Dollhouse, didn't you?  That was the only time that a Joss death flat-out made me angry.  So pointless, so arbitrary, so shock-value-for-its-own-sake.  I actually barked "Dammit, Joss!" aloud when that happened.  

 

He did not snuff Sierra, so I was good.

[Goodear]

Joyce's death and The Body rips my guts out to this day.  I just think it taps into the characters in a way the rest of the body counts don't.  Anya's reaction especially is wrenching and when you throw in that she finds Willow's sweater during her break down just makes the whole thing come together. 

[Jingus]

Well you got your fucking wish in Dollhouse, didn't you?  That was the only time that a Joss death flat-out made me angry.  So pointless, so arbitrary, so shock-value-for-its-own-sake.  I actually barked "Dammit, Joss!" aloud when that happened.  

 

He did not snuff Sierra, so I was good.

I LOVED Sierra.  Why hasn't she been in more stuff?  Her and Victor both, they were amazing chameleons, so incredibly talented.  Mellie too.  

 

Back on topic: Anya's death kinda bugged me, but only kinda.  It did seem arbitrary and tossed-off, and it didn't help that it was directed in a half-assed, blink-and-you'll-miss-it manner which made it seem way less brutal or important.  "Oh, that happened?  (shrug)  Oh well."  But there was a reason behind it; same as Wash, to make the big finale more impactful and also give an anyone-can-die feeling to the proceedings.  Obviously Joss wasn't gonna kill off any of the core four Scoobies, Spike was already being shoved into the oven anyway, and almost certainly felt like he could still get more mileage out of Faith and Andrew at some point in other projects; so that pretty much just left Principal Wood and Anya as the last two characters who weren't a gaggle of annoying anonymous slayers.  Between the two of them, well, who gave a fuck about Wood?  Anya was the only one who was expendable enough to kill but important enough to matter.  But it's still infuriating that Joss NEVER lets any of his adorable couples have a happy ending, and it's almost always the woman being killed instead of the dude.  

 

Kitty Pryde doesn't even count as a Whedoning.  Come the fuck on, people.  She was never dead, we all KNEW she was never dead.  He obviously set up her situation so that she could easily be brought back one day.  And her epic sacrifice with the giant bullet was such a world-shaking Crowning Moment Of Awesome that it was more triumphant than sad.  

 

Penny was awfully sad, but I almost kind of expected it.  And ending Dr. Horrible on such a down note was really the right storytelling decision anyway.  So I'll let that one slide, especially since she's such a typical Felicia Day ray-of-awkward-sunshine character that you can just throw on an episode of The Guild and pretend that Penny survived, got amnesia, and turned into Codex anyway.  

 

It wasn't exactly "sad", but I think the most surprising and whoa-where-did-THAT-come-from one might have been Lindsay on Angel.  "I've heard you sing" and pa-POW and his stunned, hanging-all-the-lampshades-on-it last words.  Yet another heart-wrenching moment in that whole unbelievable conga-line of stunning scenes at the end of "Not Fade Away".  

[Spritenaut 32]

Along the lines of "She was never dead, we all KNEW she was never dead", Fred's death didn't bother me because I knew Amy Acker was staying with the show.  The network killed Fred, not Whedon.  I tend to think that, had Angel gone seven or eight seasons, Fred gets resurrected somehow. 

 

Honestly, I can't think of a fictional character I've ever been too upset to see go.  Usually, it's done with a purpose, to advance the plot or get a rise out of one of the other characters.  In TV, it's often as simple as "Actor A wants off show/was fired/has personal problem", etc. 

 

I just now remembered that Spike was killed on the Buffy finale, then brought back as a ghost on Angel.  Totally blanked on the why/how.  Didn't he eventually get his body back?  How does that even count.  Death in tv should only count if the actor stops receiving paychecks.  Otherwise, it's not sad, it's just a red herring.

[J.T.]

 

Well you got your fucking wish in Dollhouse, didn't you?  That was the only time that a Joss death flat-out made me angry.  So pointless, so arbitrary, so shock-value-for-its-own-sake.  I actually barked "Dammit, Joss!" aloud when that happened.  

 

He did not snuff Sierra, so I was good.

 

I LOVED Sierra.  Why hasn't she been in more stuff?  

 

Dichen Lachman had a small villanous role on an episode of Torchwood: Miracle Day and she's been on The Glades and an episode of CSI.

 

She currently has a recurring role as Anya on The CW's post-apolcalyptic thingie, The 100.

[Eivion]

Along the lines of "She was never dead, we all KNEW she was never dead", Fred's death didn't bother me because I knew Amy Acker was staying with the show.  The network killed Fred, not Whedon.  I tend to think that, had Angel gone seven or eight seasons, Fred gets resurrected somehow. 

 

Honestly, I can't think of a fictional character I've ever been too upset to see go.  Usually, it's done with a purpose, to advance the plot or get a rise out of one of the other characters.  In TV, it's often as simple as "Actor A wants off show/was fired/has personal problem", etc. 

 

I just now remembered that Spike was killed on the Buffy finale, then brought back as a ghost on Angel.  Totally blanked on the why/how.  Didn't he eventually get his body back?  How does that even count.  Death in tv should only count if the actor stops receiving paychecks.  Otherwise, it's not sad, it's just a red herring.

Considering how the follow up in the comics went I doubt it in terms of Fred returning.

 

And Spike did get his body back.

[Brian Fowler]

Ilyria kinda switchbladed back and forth between herself and "Fred" in After the Fall.

 

(God, Not Fade Away is a fucking perfect episode of television, btw.)

 

Lindsay mailed Spike a box, and he got his body back.  It almost destroyed the world, too. 

 

(God, season 5 of Angel is fucking awesome, btw.)