Saddest Whedoning of a character in his works? *Spoilers*

[Johnny Sorrow]

Even if I had known for a 100% fact that he was going to take somebody out of the toy box for a while in that book, I never, ever would have guessed it would be Kitty. 

Seriously? Who else would it have been? The minute I read the first page of Astonishing it was obvious that Kitty was going to be the main character and that meant she'll be tortured/ killed. 

[Brian Fowler]

Honestly, I thought Joss loved the character too much to do that.  The same way he would never, ever kill off Willow.

[Stennick]

Does Wesley die? That sucks I could have sworn I remember him meeting up with the others at the end of Angel but I suppose note. Wesley is a top five character of mine. I loved his transition as a character. Fred sucked as well but it wasn't as much heart wrenching as it was just stupid. She comes back as Illyria and everytime I see him I'm just like "just fucking bring back Fred". 

[Ryan]

He dies in the finale.

[piranesi]

It was a pretty good death.  Fireballs and shit.

[Ryan]

Then Illyria destroyed his killer.

[Brian Fowler]

His death is kind of touching and sweet, really.

[Stennick]

I went back and watched it since I judge every show based off of the Buffy/Angel shows. Even if I felt like Angel wasted two fucking seasons on the stupid storyline with his son and wasted one of the biggest bad ass monsters in the history of that shows universe as an avatar for evil Cordelia. Anyway I would say Fred for me is the worst. Its not even close for me. 

[Big Fresh]

This thread made me go watch the episode of Buffy where Joyce died and now I'm depressed. So fuck you guys.

[Ryan]

Yeah, that will do that.

[Spritenaut 32]

I don't really get the hand-wringing.  A lot of the character deaths referenced in the poll occured in the series finales.  It's fairly typical for dramas to kill at least a character or two nowdays as they wrap up the show.  A few of the other "deaths" were clearly fakeouts (Buffy deaths 1 & 2; the show had already been renewed, so there was no real reason to think the character was actually dead).  And several deaths were necessiatated by circumstances beyond the producers' control (Kristine Sutherland asked to be let out of her contract; Glenn Quinn was fired for personal problems, Charisma Carpenter was fired over personal issues and getting pregnant, Julie Benz wanted to move on to a bigger role and told the producers she wasn't going to be as available, etc.).  I don't even count Jenny Calendar in there.   She was such a minor character that her death served more purpose than keeping her around probably would have.

 

I don't think Joss kills regular characters any more than any other creator.  Besides, a lot of the demises were well done (Joyce and Fred, especially.  And Amy Acker got to keep collecting paychecks) and/or moved the plot forward (Darla esp.)

 

Seriously, fans get way more attached to characters than the actors and writers do. 

[odessasteps]

Jenny Calender was a refrigerator death.

[Ryan]

Not including films, three of these were in series finales, so yeah.

[Brian Fowler]

Kristine Sutherland told Joss before season 4 she was going to do a play, and his instant response was "You'll be back for season 5, right?  Because I'm planning to have Joyce die" (not an exact quote.)  She wasn't killed off because she asked out of her contract, Joss was already planning it before she decided to leave.

 

I think it's less "Joss kills characters more often" and more "Joss makes character deaths hurt more" than most other creators.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

You guys need to watch real tv. Hector Williams dying on The Unit was far more poignant than some barely featured extra. The Body is only memorable for the long cuts.

[offspring515]

Jenny Calender was a refrigerator death.

Her sister Marie was a freezer death.

In all honesty what does refrigerator death mean? Google is just giving me literal deaths by being stuck in a fridge.

[EVA]

I think it's less "Joss kills characters more often" and more "Joss makes character deaths hurt more" than most other creators.

And that's not even really true. David Simon, David Milch, Vince Gilligan, to name a few...All of these guys are experts at suckerpunching you with death in ways that will fuck up your whole week.

"Whedoning" is a thing because Joss has a very vocal online fanbase that wants to give him credit for everything like he invented all that was good about TV in 1998.

[Brian Fowler]

A "fridge death" is when a female character is killed solely for the purpose of advancing a male character's story/giving him motivation/etc.

 

Gail Simone's old blog, Women in Refrigerators, made it a "thing" online, and it's based originally on an early 90's Green Lantern comic, where two or three issues after introducing the new GL, Kyle Rayner, and his girlfriend Alex, he came home to find her literally stuffed in his fridge, dead.

[Ryan]

 

Jenny Calender was a refrigerator death.

Her sister Marie was a freezer death.

In all honesty what does refrigerator death mean? Google is just giving me literal deaths by being stuck in a fridge.

 

It's a comic book thing. Green Lantern Kyle Rayner's girlfriend was killed and stuffed in a refrigerator. It's meant to point out how often writers kill off females in comic books for pathos and without really caring about it. I think Gail Simone came up with it.

 

Edit: What the Fowl one said.

 

Her site about it: http://lby3.com/wir/

 

Edited June 8, 2014 by Ryan

[offspring515]

Thanks guys.

[Ryan]

*nods along with Bigfoot*

[LooseCannon]

Some people whine so much about fridging that I want to see some characters killed off just to troll those people.  I have vivid fantasies of getting a two-fer of fucking with those people and Geoff Johns by giving Stargirl the Mary Marvel treatment before killing her off.

[Brian Fowler]

If you want to specifically troll Johns, you should probably have her dismembered on the way to death...

 

Generally speaking, I think killing a character in order to motivate another character is a perfectly fine storytelling technique, but I do think it is a way too overused cliche in superhero comics to specifically kill off a girlfriend in that manner.

 

I also don't think Jenny Calendar counts.  Yes, her death did motivate Giles, but she was also killed by Angelus for a specific purpose that had nothing to do with Giles, and everything to do with her own actions and attempts to re-ensoul Angel.

[Matt D]

I actually think that the GL issue that created it all was a sort of bad example. It was very effective in context, built to, paid off well, and it was early enough in the run that Alex was pretty much there solely for that one reason. I don't necessarily agree with the exact manner of death, but i think that it was a lot more effective, than, let's say the mandatory death that every big event has to have. 

[muhammedboehm]

So under this definition would Tara's death be the biggest example of that type of death with only a slight twist in Willow turning evil cause if it.