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Raw is Filler 6-2-14


MGFanJay

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I think of the Shield as being more a three man team like Demolition than a stable like the Horsemen or DX. 

After they beat Evolution on Sunday, I knew something had to happen. They had nowhere else to go, I though HHH was going to force them into a Triple Threat match for the title to force a break up. 

Rollins is clearly the best recruit from a story (and probably IRL) perspective. Ambrose is too much of a nut to trust and Reigns is a brainless thug. Both of them have proven to be selfish at various times. Rollins is the best wrestler and a team player. He ended up having a price, but it is doubtful anyone can make a better offer than Hunter. 

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I'm okay with the turn because a) main event guys never turn anymore. I mean, Orton/Hunter was the last turn and that was back in August B) From an in-ring perspective, it's easy for any of them to feel that they did all they could do as a unit and now it's time to look out for number 1. 

 

Now, I get the argument that Ambrose has more legs as a heel but, really, Rollins has been the star of the The Shield. Wouldn't it be natural that he feels the other two are holding him back from being the next WWE champion or whatever (which is where I imagine his promo will go)? Remember that Hunter turned on DX when he was the leader because The Corporation gave him a better path to the title. 

 

I mean, The Shield were great as heels. They kicked everyone's ass. They turned babyface and kicked more ass. At the PPV they kicked the ass of the top three of the biggest stars in the company history. I'm okay if this is the ending because I'd rather this than...I dunno...they start losing matches due to miscommunication and dissension. Everyone ends on a high note and now they get to run with a storyline that could run until 'Mania for these three guys. 

 

Now the issue is if it was done in the right way. I would have had Ambrose or Rollins win MITB, build to a Reigns title win and then do a turn but I guess they have other plans for the belt one way or another. 

 

If we can get past arguments about merch sales and WCW television ratings, do you guys think The Shield should replace the member and who would it be? I don't think an existing talent works. I think there'd be a stink of failure if like...Dolph came running down. Zayn is too lovable. It won't happen, but I'd roll out Devitt at MITB. Dude knows how to work a faction gimmick. 

 

Zayn is actually a good babyface replacement for Rollins, but I would rather have a Rollins/Orton vs. Ambrose/Reigns tag match (and have HHH step away before the inevitable Daniel Bryan rematch). I was not ready for the Shield to break up, and they will always be remembered for their awesome matches, but I begrudgingly agree that they were about out of fresh matches/ideas as a group.

 

Edit: All time, I would compare them to a combination of the Freebirds and Horseman. More like the Freebirds mentality wise, with Horseman quality of matches. I know that I will be much more likely to watch past Shield matches then ones from NWO or DX.

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Finally watched the turn just now and actually felt it was pretty well done. I'm assuming we eventually get a callback to Rollins leaving them vs the Wyatts as a way to say the seeds were planted for a while.

I think it's as simple as turning one of the Shield creates new matches. Who were the Shield going to go against next? What was Orton's next series? HHH? Just by changing up Rollins, there's extra juice and more shit to watch.

I hear the posts about Ambrose being the better heel, but fuck if that guy hasn't been out Ricky Mortoning Ricky Morton the past couple of months as a face. No bullshit at the live event in AC I attended Ambrose went from the guy you cared least about in a Shield-Wyatt match to the most over- babyface of the night so far while taking his beating. (At least until the Reigns finishing sequence followed by Bryan, in fairness). Maybe WWE wants to see if he can thrive in that role longer, figuring they can always turn him heel if need be or he loses steam.

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They had weekly good matches for a year+ straght, sometimes 2+ a week. There are very few wrestlers in WWE history that you can say that about. Rey, maybe Cena. Christian? You can't really compare DX well because for most of that run there were just a bunch of four minute matches on TV. That's not a knock against them. It just makes it hard to judge. The Dangerous Alliance is pretty much the only comparison I can think of since WCW was giving away so many free tv matches. 

 

Really, I think you should compare them to tag teams. not necessarily to a faction. What tag team had weekly televised good matches, singles or tag, over a year+ period in WWE? 

 

Then you get that we are just now in the 3 hour Raw post-brand split era which allows for this. It's just a really hard comparison in general.

 

That doesn't make what they accomplished any less special.

 

The Shield's run probably compares best with the WCW Cruiserweight division at its prime more than anything else. Any combination of Eddie/Dean/Rey/Psychosis/Juvi/etc. was a guaranteed good-to-great match. The Shield filled that role pretty great, but also did so by being near or at the top of the card for their entire run.

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Glad someone brought up the Freebirds, that's actually a pretty good comparison as both teams did heel and face very well. As a side by side comparison:

 

Gordy/Reigns - Look, I'm as big a Roman Reigns fan as there is, but Terry Gordy was one of those guys that comes along once in a lifetime. When you also factor in his Japan work either singly or with Doc the difference is huge (but ask me again in five years). Right now: Huge edge 'Birds

 

Ambrose/Hayes - If you want to swap Hayes for Roberts, then you get Rollins/Hayes which is a total blow-out. Edge Shield. Both guys are incredible on the stick, but there is absolutely no comparison when it comes to ring work. If only Hayes had been forced to just be a managerial mouthpiece, we'd have been spared hours and hours of crap. Even Flair at his peak couldn't get more than *** out of Hayes.

 

Rollins/Roberts - Neither could be said to be great promo men, but at least Rollins seems familiar with English as it is understood by most of the population. Roberts could make a total choad look great, but so can Rollins. I'd have to say that the edge here goes to the Shield.

 

When you get to match quality/quantity, that's where the Shield blows the 'Birds out of the water. Hayes was at his very best "passable" (though in fairness, he was great on the mic, but so is Dean Ambrose.) When Gordy or Roberts was in the ring, it was almost always great, when Hayes was in it was as exciting as watching a moron smash beetles. I don't know if they will go the route of bringing in a new third man, but by default whoever it is has to be better than an aging and lethargic Jimmy Garvin.

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Figured this was a show that would get shit on here, but I really enjoyed it. Lot of fun wrestling. Turn was cool. Bryan still has the title. Luke Harper is still the most pro wrestler pro wrestler in fifteen years. Job well done for a random June Raw.

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Well you have the original Horsemen run and the second incarnation (89/91), but not being as good as the Horsemen puts you in good company. 

If Tully and Arn had not bailed, I think we would have seen them and Barry turn on Flair and throw him out. 

My favorite group in WWE is 3MB, with Hornswoggle it is like they created a tribute group to the WCW Freebirds. 

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Oh also. NAO were horrible, but super popular because it was the 90s and a lot of fucking mutants were watching WWF. Road Dogg was just the lamest motherfucker and Billy Gunn was of course shit. DX was big because of Michaels and Chyna more than HHH. Way more than HHH, who was easily the least given a shit member of the whole crew.

But goddamnit, the Freebirds were so much more on than the Shield, but it's kinda unfair to compare because all us hicks thought that shit was real. What workrate meant was so much different then.

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It's also difficult to compare match quality. The Shield gets run out on television twice a week and once a month on PPV to have solid matches. Back in the day, the Freebirds, Horsemen, Stud Stable, Heenan Family, etc. generally worked squash matches on television to draw you to arena shows.

 

If we go straight up in-ring, I got the Flair/Tully/Arn/Barry Horsemen over the Shield every day of the week. I would probably take the Bockwinkel/Stevens era Heenan Family over them as well.

 

Really, we all have our own criteria for "best faction", so this argument is going to be a rotating set of goalposts at best.

 

Shit, I haven't even mentioned Buddy Rose's army from Portland. ;)

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I think, from a kayfabe standpoint, that the Shield are incredibly formidable. They've fucked up nearly everyone on the roster and rarely are they on the losing end of a fight. In two years (and they ended right where they started) they've dismantled the following:

  • The Rock
  • CM Punk
  • John Cena
  • The Undertaker
  • Randy Orton
  • Daniel Bryan
  • HHH
  • Batista
  • Kane

And that's just a small, small sampling of who they've demolished. The entire time they've really felt like they were above titles because even when they held some, they didn't exactly need them. When I try to think of another group who ran roughshod through the entire promotion in such a short period of time, the only group that comes to mind is the nWo, and the nWo was like an army of dudes who kept bringing in more and more guys. The Shield stayed as a three man group. That's pretty badass. What Goldberg did was more badass than that since he was just one guy and he would destroy GROUPS by himself.

 

Business wise, it's way too hard to tell and arguments regarding business give me such a headache. 

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Jesus at least OSJ finally brought it up. The Shield are the new Freebirds. Unfortunately I don't think that you can break up the original crew because I don't think whatever Jimmy Jam Garvin or Iceman King Parsons you try to use to fill that gap is gonna work. 

 

Please lay off the Attitude Era crap, none of that has anything to do with the discussion at hand and it's just Waiter Bait.

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Jesus at least OSJ finally brought it up. The Shield are the new Freebirds. Unfortunately I don't think that you can break up the original crew because I don't think whatever Jimmy Jam Garvin or Iceman King Parsons you try to use to fill that gap is gonna work.

Please lay off the Attitude Era crap, none of that has anything to do with the discussion at hand and it's just Waiter Bait.

Dont forget Little Richard Marley.

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I think, from a kayfabe standpoint, that the Shield are incredibly formidable. They've fucked up nearly everyone on the roster and rarely are they on the losing end of a fight. In two years (and they ended right where they started) they've dismantled the following:

  • The Rock
  • CM Punk
  • John Cena
  • The Undertaker
  • Randy Orton
  • Daniel Bryan
  • HHH
  • Batista
  • Kane

And that's just a small, small sampling of who they've demolished. The entire time they've really felt like they were above titles because even when they held some, they didn't exactly need them. When I try to think of another group who ran roughshod through the entire promotion in such a short period of time, the only group that comes to mind is the nWo, and the nWo was like an army of dudes who kept bringing in more and more guys. The Shield stayed as a three man group. That's pretty badass. What Goldberg did was more badass than that since he was just one guy and he would destroy GROUPS by himself.

 

Business wise, it's way too hard to tell and arguments regarding business give me such a headache. 

 

Don't forget Ryback. In a kayfabe view, they're the ones responsible for taking Ryback from Conqueror Of Worlds down a lot of pegs very quickly. He was their personal chew toy for their entire existence. They were triple powerbombing him just a few Raws ago. I can totally see The Shield talking up their big debut in the car and running down what a chump they knew Ryback was and couldn't believe no one else cracked that code yet.

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And that's just a small, small sampling of who they've demolished. The entire time they've really felt like they were above titles because even when they held some, they didn't exactly need them. 

Yeah, but they were never the Face of the WWE, Maggle.

 

The Shield were used to protect other people from losing the title(Punk/Orton). They were hired guns. As a faction there mission statement was practically: Wrestle good matches in the middle of the card and help out people more powerful than us. They were wildly successful at that. But if they were really smart they would have been angling to get Roman Reigns a title shot pronto and collect some of that World title cash. That kind of money could buy them all sorts of flack jackets and wolverine claws at Target.

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Jesus at least OSJ finally brought it up. The Shield are the new Freebirds. Unfortunately I don't think that you can break up the original crew because I don't think whatever Jimmy Jam Garvin or Iceman King Parsons you try to use to fill that gap is gonna work.

Please lay off the Attitude Era crap, none of that has anything to do with the discussion at hand and it's just Waiter Bait.

Dont forget Little Richard Marley.

 

 

He was their manager so that doesn't count. And honestly, does just PS Hayes make it the Freebirds? Can you see just Ambrose with (insert name here) and call it "the Shield"? Three men or no go.

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And that's just a small, small sampling of who they've demolished. The entire time they've really felt like they were above titles because even when they held some, they didn't exactly need them. 

Yeah, but they were never the Face of the WWE, Maggle.

 

The Shield were used to protect other people from losing the title(Punk/Orton). They were hired guns. As a faction there mission statement was practically: Wrestle good matches in the middle of the card and help out people more powerful than us. They were wildly successful at that. But if they were really smart they would have been angling to get Roman Reigns a title shot pronto and collect some of that World title cash. That kind of money could buy them all sorts of flack jackets and wolverine claws at Target.

 

 

I can see the Shield being too busy playing video games, smoking bud, and mastering titties to bother with titles that they can easily take and hold up the paperwork on.

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And that's just a small, small sampling of who they've demolished. The entire time they've really felt like they were above titles because even when they held some, they didn't exactly need them. 

Yeah, but they were never the Face of the WWE, Maggle.

 

The Shield were used to protect other people from losing the title(Punk/Orton). They were hired guns. As a faction there mission statement was practically: Wrestle good matches in the middle of the card and help out people more powerful than us. They were wildly successful at that. But if they were really smart they would have been angling to get Roman Reigns a title shot pronto and collect some of that World title cash. That kind of money could buy them all sorts of flack jackets and wolverine claws at Target.

 

 

They strike me as the type that would shop at army surplus stores or any of the doomsday prepper shops that have popped up as of late. I'm sure Ambrose has a sweet collection of gas masks. Reigns looks like he loves MREs.

 

You bring up a good point though, in that no one gives a shit about money. You never see a bounty anymore, not even heels want the World Hwy. Championship for all the money, fame, glory and women that come with it. That's sad.

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Jesus at least OSJ finally brought it up. The Shield are the new Freebirds. Unfortunately I don't think that you can break up the original crew because I don't think whatever Jimmy Jam Garvin or Iceman King Parsons you try to use to fill that gap is gonna work.

Please lay off the Attitude Era crap, none of that has anything to do with the discussion at hand and it's just Waiter Bait.

Dont forget Little Richard Marley.

He was their manager so that doesn't count. And honestly, does just PS Hayes make it the Freebirds? Can you see just Ambrose with (insert name here) and call it "the Shield"? Three men or no go.

I thought he was an occssional worker, unlike DDP and Big Daddy Dink, who were strictly managers.

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Anyone trying to pimp DX and nWo should be subjected to an evening of New Age Outlaw and Outsider matches.

 

I'd rather watch Suddenly Susan reruns.

I hate this revision history that NAO weren't one of the best things about the Attitude era. I know it doesn't fit the "smark" carbon footprint, but they were consistently good/very good during one of the best tag team eras in history. They also serve as the poster child for "let them go out there and see what happens." 

 

 

NAO were played out by Rumble '99. They were literally a catchphrase and nothing else. Nobody talks about great New Age Outlaws angles or matches beyond maybe Funk & Foley in '98.

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Jesus at least OSJ finally brought it up. The Shield are the new Freebirds. Unfortunately I don't think that you can break up the original crew because I don't think whatever Jimmy Jam Garvin or Iceman King Parsons you try to use to fill that gap is gonna work.

Please lay off the Attitude Era crap, none of that has anything to do with the discussion at hand and it's just Waiter Bait.

Dont forget Little Richard Marley.

He was their manager so that doesn't count. And honestly, does just PS Hayes make it the Freebirds? Can you see just Ambrose with (insert name here) and call it "the Shield"? Three men or no go.

I thought he was an occssional worker, unlike DDP and Big Daddy Dias nk, who were strictly managers.

 

 

Yeah, Marley was Rocky King repackaged as a non-jobber (sorta).  He wrestled at least a couple six-mans with the Freebirds.

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If we can get past arguments about merch sales and WCW television ratings, do you guys think The Shield should replace the member and who would it be? I don't think an existing talent works. I think there'd be a stink of failure if like...Dolph came running down. Zayn is too lovable. It won't happen, but I'd roll out Devitt at MITB. Dude knows how to work a faction gimmick. 

 

What about Neville?  It won't happen anytime soon because they'd have to get the NXT title off him, but if you come at it from a "we need someone to replace Rollins" point of view, I think he'd work out really well.

 

The only thing is that I'm not sure if he's quite tall enough.  Might look a little silly if he's way shorter than the other two guys.

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If we can get past arguments about merch sales and WCW television ratings, do you guys think The Shield should replace the member and who would it be? I don't think an existing talent works. I think there'd be a stink of failure if like...Dolph came running down. Zayn is too lovable. It won't happen, but I'd roll out Devitt at MITB. Dude knows how to work a faction gimmick. 

 

What about Neville?  It won't happen anytime soon because they'd have to get the NXT title off him, but if you come at it from a "we need someone to replace Rollins" point of view, I think he'd work out really well.

 

The only thing is that I'm not sure if he's quite tall enough.  Might look a little silly if he's way shorter than the other two guys.

 

 

The answer as always is Corey Graves.

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