Payback '14

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Bray is a short term gimmick and should be used to put over bigger stars.

[piranesi]

Bray is a short term gimmick and should be used to put over bigger stars.

 

This is scared old Meltzer thinking.  Breathe bigger.

 

HONESTLY.. I WANNA SEE YOU BE BRAVE!

[Spontaneous]

I just wish there was some progression to his character, he has seen little change since 2005 in his character. That length of time, without any change is toxic. If they are serious about Roman Reigns being the new guy then something has to give. I thought Bray would begin that shift but it looks to be back to status quo. A few weeks ago he was doubting if his fans still believed in him after being forced to go 3 on 1. But then nothing came of it.

[Niners Fan in CT]

People shit on Triple H when he did that "oh wow, I can't believe this guy beat me" shit with Jeff Hardy but Cena does it all the time and is far more blatant. Cena is the same guy who said since when do wins and losses matter. He said that on a RAW. I remember it clear as day.

 

I'm not asking for Cena to go on a losing streak. I'd like to see something different with his character. It's been long enough. Whatever happens, I'm someone who will never stop watching because there's plenty of people I do like to see. Unfortunately for WWE..  not everyone takes the bad with the good. $9.99 for the network is an absolute steal but they only have a 700k subscribers and a big part of that is because people don't feel like they are missing anything. They are fine with watching or DVRing RAW here and there and that's it.. They don't care about these PPV matches because they know it's going to be status quo.

[JohnnyJ]

I like Cena more than most. Cena makes a lot of guys by simply getting in the ring with them and letting them have a competitive match.

 

That being said, I've disliked a lot of the Cena v. Wyatt feud because it went on long enough that the core criticisms of John Cena snuck into it.

 

- Did Cena crap on his opponents gimmick? Check

- Did the Cena make it seem like he was all jokey and not taking the feud seriously? Check  

- Did Cena overcome the odds in the most ridiculous way imaginable? (3 on 1 at extreme rules anyone?) Check

- Did creative protect Cena by giving Wyatt all sorts of hokey mini victories? Check

 

Wyatt should have come out on top in this feud. He's already feuded with the two top babyfaces on the roster. While they gave him a victory over Bryan, what is remembered from that feud is Bryan victorious on top of the cage.  Where does he go from here?

[MORELOCK]

People shit on Triple H when he did that "oh wow, I can't believe this guy beat me" shit with Jeff Hardy but Cena does it all the time and is far more blatant.

 

Does he? You mentioned he did this to Bryan, but I remember it going down the opposite way.

[Cristobal]

I don't think Cena (or WWE) went out of their way to call it out, but they kinda had to admit that that football on Cena's elbow was a bit of a problem. You have to say it takes a bit away from the victory, though I don't believe the intent there was to protect Cena.

[ebbie]

Does anyone really go "Well, there goes his push." when Cena hits the AA like they do when HHH pedigrees someone?

 

 

...Then why are comparing them?

[Stevie Ray Von Erich]

John Cena is much better in video package form and then just watching the match. The WWE is a great wrestling company, but a terrible television show and I think someone like Cena is the perfect embodiment of those talents and limitations. I love to watch Cena wrestle because he is one of the best in the world and has been for around a decade. But his character work is best viewed in broad strokes because, up close, it just doesn't hold up.

 

I still remember a line he threw out after the TLC match with Punk. I can't remember if it was on the Raw with the tournament and main event with Rey or afterward, but he was speaking about Punk getting to be champion "Just because he beat me one time?" It was the most entitled, whinny thing to say. And it would be great for Cena's character to acknowledge and work past those interesting little issues his character has, but that never happens. It requires too much of a television show's grace and subtly for something like the wrestling spectacle that WWE is to pull off. And we probably shouldn't expect them to.

 

But it would be SO EASY to just address it in a few promos. But whatever. As long as they keep giving me great matches I'll be happy.

 

 

As far as Bray losing, I honestly think it's the more interesting option given they're not going to go a dark Cena sort of route. I think it provides more options match and story-wise in the long run, especially since Bryan's hurt.

[Niners Fan in CT]

People shit on Triple H when he did that "oh wow, I can't believe this guy beat me" shit with Jeff Hardy but Cena does it all the time and is far more blatant.

Does he? You mentioned he did this to Bryan, but I remember it going down the opposite way.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Cena no sells pretty much any loss..its been going on for a long time. I'm not sure who is telling him to do it or if he just smiles like an idiot on his own but its terrible.

[Patrick B.]

John Cena is much better in video package form and then just watching the match. The WWE is a great wrestling company, but a terrible television show and I think someone like Cena is the perfect embodiment of those talents and limitations. I love to watch Cena wrestle because he is one of the best in the world and has been for around a decade. But his character work is best viewed in broad strokes because, up close, it just doesn't hold up.

 

I still remember a line he threw out after the TLC match with Punk. I can't remember if it was on the Raw with the tournament and main event with Rey or afterward, but he was speaking about Punk getting to be champion "Just because he beat me one time?" It was the most entitled, whinny thing to say. And it would be great for Cena's character to acknowledge and work past those interesting little issues his character has, but that never happens. It requires too much of a television show's grace and subtly for something like the wrestling spectacle that WWE is to pull off. And we probably shouldn't expect them to.

 

But it would be SO EASY to just address it in a few promos. But whatever. As long as they keep giving me great matches I'll be happy.

 

 

As far as Bray losing, I honestly think it's the more interesting option given they're not going to go a dark Cena sort of route. I think it provides more options match and story-wise in the long run, especially since Bryan's hurt.

I also remember a promo against Punk leading up to a title shot where he said the title had been "irrelevant" during Punk's reign.

[The Z]

Never was I disgusted more by Cena than during the build-up for that awful Cena/Orton feud at the end of last year, when audiences everywhere were chanting for Daniel Bryan and Cena tried to spin it around as if they were actually chanting for him.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I was more disgusted when Punk said that Bryans entire angry little man angle was a gimmick to sell tshirts but yeah Cena is the worst and buries everyone.

[Brian Fowler]

That's the thing though, the night after Summerslam Cena DIDN'T dismiss Bryan's win. 

[Spontaneous]

I just really hated how Cena ran back to the ring after the LMS match, like he had just awoken from his afternoon nap. If he had limped over to the Usos and sold the war he had just been it would have been a slightly easier to accept ending. Instead it was Super Cena, look at my wristbands that are for sale! I still think Sandow should have gotten a short reign and then lost the belt back at Survivor Series if he had to last year. He could have gotten a reign similar to Edge's first, instead it was a joke.

I don't need him to lose all the time but he is a real drain despite not being in the title picture right now. I don't even know what he'll be doing at SummerSlam, where can he go from here?

[scraylo187]

I just really hated how Cena ran back to the ring after the LMS match, like he had just awoken from his afternoon nap. 

 

Oh man as soon as he was on stage I was like 'he's gonna start running isn't h- yup.'

[Bourdain]

I think most of the problem here is that people think that Cena's run is dying down and it's time to pass the torch, when the reality is that he's still firmly entrenched as the top guy, is still the best mic guy in the company when he doesn't have to read poop jokes, and is still putting on some of the best matches on the card.  And he's booked like pretty much any top guy - he gets beat up a lot by cheaters, then wins when the odds are evened out.  I mean, I'm not the John Cena target audience, but I completely get it.

 

And it's not like he needs to be losing high profile feuds.  Save those for his matches with rising faces like Bryan.  And beating young guys like Bray isn't a big deal, because they have a lot of wrestling ahead of them and it's hard to imagine that their careers are at their height.  Whereas HHH was burying guys at the peak of their popularity. 

Was gonna hit the like button til you dropped that last line. Shame on you

[MORELOCK]

People shit on Triple H when he did that "oh wow, I can't believe this guy beat me" shit with Jeff Hardy but Cena does it all the time and is far more blatant.

Does he? You mentioned he did this to Bryan, but I remember it going down the opposite way.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Cena no sells pretty much any loss..its been going on for a long time. I'm not sure who is telling him to do it or if he just smiles like an idiot on his own but its terrible.

I'm referring specifically to Bryan, who Cena put over huge and as recently as this week's Raw said he beat him fair and square, and you still haven't pointed out a single instance of him saying or doing anything otherwise about it.

[Brian Fowler]

Yeah, my recollection is a complete "the better man won" total putting Bryan over promo the night after the show, before he went to have surgery.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Wait.. I didn't say Cena did the smile and laugh bullshit with Bryan, I said the win was treated as a fluke.. which it was. The commentary treated it as if Bryan had no business winning that match and they made excuses for Cena.

[offspring515]

So they treated the perpetual underdog defeating the nearly invincible megastar as a perpetual underdog defeating the nearly invincible megastar?

[Niners Fan in CT]

So they treated the perpetual underdog defeating the nearly invincible megastar as a perpetual underdog defeating the nearly invincible megastar?

 

Is he a master submission and mat wrestler or is he Mikey Whipwreck? They've booked him as both so you tell me..

[JohnnyJ]

Cena put Bryan over huge in his post-summerslam promo. But at the same time joked around, no sold losing the title and explained that he was injured before the match started. This pretty much sums up the enigma that is Jawn Cena.

[Spontaneous]

Cena is akin to Hogan. Hogan was treated as a face yet constantly heeled it up. Cena is treated as a face but constantly seems to come across as an aloof almost comedic heel figure.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I dont get the "wins and losses matter" part. Sure they did back when it was presented as a sport, but at this point winning, losing, "looking strong" and all that stuff seem pretty irrelevant overall.