JRGoldman Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Some performers are just limited. No matter how hard they work to reach their ceiling, that ceiling is still lower than others, for any number of reasons. We can debate the semantics of "fair shake" and the like, but it's a fact that Ryder got to be featured in major segments with main event stars, and in all of those segments, whether it be the Kane/Cena stuff or opening the show with Punk and Bryan, he looked lost and like a second rate performer. For whatever reason, the charisma he showed on his youtube show did not translate when he was on Raw. To me, that says he has a clear understanding of who his character is, and he worked hard to write material that would work within the confines of that character. When it came time for others to write his character on to TV in a more major way (and thereby have to change and grow organically, because no TV writer is ever going to understand your intellectual property as well as you), he faltered. He was unable to figure out how to speak to a larger audience using someone else's words. Regardless of other performers' shortcomings, basically everyone who has found themselves getting sustained success in wrestling have been able to change their character over the course of time to fit other people's ideas and input. I also don't think Ryder helped his case by being a brat publicly when things didn't go his way. It's one thing to complain behind closed doors and reach out to management about what you can do to improve and get what you want out of your job. It's another entirely to bitch and moan constantly over social media in the most passive aggressive way humanly possible. That would get you a bad reputation in any office job, let alone a business founded on secrecy and guarding your persona closely. In my mind, Ryder is really not different than Colt Cabana, who is constantly talking about how the people who don't book him don't understand the Colt Cabana character. If that is the case with so many different people in your chosen profession, then the problem lies not with them, but with the character that you have created. After a while, they both changed their characters from what made them approachable in the first place and in to an extension of their own frustration and bitterness at their own perceived lack of success. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acecomics Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I might by mis-remembering, but I could have sworn Ryder got some heat for changing his hair color without office consent just as a ton of merchandise with his likeness was being released... including a visor with fake spiked hair. I thought that had something to do with his depush, though I may be off on the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Not like mediocre in-ring ability has stopped them from pushing people before. They just protect some people more than others. I have yet to see a Roman Reigns singles match that was particularly strong, for instance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Fixit Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Reigns has had singles matches with Kane and short matches with Mark Henry. I see no reason to think that he wouldn't have strong singles matches with Bryan, Cesaro, Cena, Sheamus, Ambrose or Rollins. Consistently good performances in tag matches have to count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Smarkie Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 His singles match with Punk was pretty boss and that was at least six months ago. I have no doubts about him performing at a higher level when the time comes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 getting back to this conversation: I like when the storyline is simple enough because it boils down to good vs evil and the matches are two to x many people fighting each other because they fucking hate each other. Which is why when people post gifs of indy wrestling, I can't roll my eyes enough. Wrestling isn't suppose to be pretty to look at, it's suppose to keep your attention. IMO what's missing from the current wrestling stuffing is twofold. At least these are the reasons i don't follow Raw anymore. 1) emotion. when was the last time there was a feud where two people "fucking hated each other"? to me it just feels more of a "i'm the bad guy, you're the good guy, let's fight" deal than real hatred. 2) variety. during the heydey of the Attitude Era, on any episode of WCW Nitro you'd have a plethora of things happening. technical wrestling (regal, malenko). brawling (benoit/sullivan, nWo vs WCW), high-flying (whichever random mexicans they had on hand). Plus random shit like Mortis vs Glacier or Steiner Bros suplexing fools. i just don't see that stuff when i turn on current wrestling. Maybe i'm wrong, and if so, please point out to me some examples. I would say that the current Ambrose/Rollins feud is being booked as a traditional 'blood feud'. It's classic, one guy turns on the other and now they're gonna kill each other. Whether or not they keep it up for the whole feud is yet to be determined, but it's had a good beginning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Apparently WWE has doubts. He was booked for a singles match with Del Rio on SD a few weeks ago(as announced on Raw), but between Monday and Tuesday it was changed to the four-on-three handicap match that we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 He had a singles with Bray Wyatt on Raw this year that totally sucked a dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontaneous Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 He isn't going to just morph into a great singles wrestler. Their current house show line ups should help him grow into that role. Even if he still is mediocre a year from now in ring wise but is over with the crowd then he is fine. Watch Cena's, Batista's or any of their other big names early reigns, it is mostly garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Not like mediocre in-ring ability has stopped them from pushing people before. They just protect some people more than others. I have yet to see a Roman Reigns singles match that was particularly strong, for instance. So let me get this straight now you wanna compare Ryder with Roman Reigns? Wow. Ryder was and is terrible is any wrestling situation. That's why his pushed was stopped and utterly destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Him being shitty shouldn't matter if he was getting a reaction and moving merch. Kevin Nash was champ for a year, lost money for the company, AND had shitty matches. Ryder is held to a higher standard? Hey, Nash had that one match in which he hit Shawn with a prosthetic leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Nash was Super Shredder so all arguments against him are invalid thanks 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Nash was tall, dark and handsome. He also had long, flowing locks that moved with a gentle breeze. Who cares if he only had three moves? He killed people and that arm thing was kinda cool like his theme music. People are loving Reigns and I see more "Next Kevin Nash" in him than "Next Big Star" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 After seeing his Paul Bearer impression I'm behind Reigns and everything he does That should be his gimmick Possessed by Paul's ghost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 There's no reason right now to think that Reigns isn't going to become a good singles wrestler. He just hasn't had enough experience in singles matches lately. Most of his work over the past two years has been in tag matches, and he's been damn good in them. He's proved he can learn quickly--just compare his work in FCW to his work now, or even just a few months into his Shield run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 His shit looks like it hurts so he already has one up on John Cena half the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I only brought up Nash for his 1995 run, where he was pushed as THE top guy for a year, despite the company bleeding money, the houses being down, and his matches being buttcheeks. Just kinda proving the point of "if they want you to have a push, they'll push you". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 A few things Riegns just had the look similar to Kevin Nash he just has the cool vibe about him he's gonna be a star. And also Miz is the absolute worse Ryder is a thousand times better than him and I'm not that fond of Ryder either. But all that build the US title win then BOOM the depush of all depushes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I think they've raised their standards since then. It's not enough to look impressive, or get over with the crowds, you also have to be a good worker. Someone like 1995 Nash wouldn't get nearly as far in 2014 WWE. Mason Ryan looked like Vince's wet dreams, but sucked in the ring and eventually got shitcanned. If Reigns doesn't prove he's capable of competently working in the main events as a singles wrestler, he'll get pushed down the card and they'll move on to the next hoss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Didn't they start to push Santino as the guy who shouldn't but almost did as soon as Ryder's 15 min were up? Santino was bloody awesome those few months in early '12 as the fired up, yells-"fuck you, you son of a bitch"-right-before-he-finally-dies babyface. Ugh. All this talk about Ryder beind wasted, Santino could work a fucking crowd and they should've gave him the SD belt for a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I dunno about giving him the belt, but putting Santino in a title match in the main event of a Raw could've made for a hell of a memorsble evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Oh Santino was over as hell they should've ran with it. Shot if they pushed him now he could get that over again the crowd lives him that much. He is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm still not sure where all these definitive conclusions about Ryder's in-ring ability are coming from. He may very well be shitty, but we haven't seen enough of him to make that determination. The last I'll say about it is that I think he's the kind of guy who just needs to keep his profile low until Vince isn't as involved. I think HHH would better understand how to use and showcase a guy like Ryder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 He's been on the main roster since 2007. I don't care how short his matches are, that's more than enough time to prove whether or not you belong in the big leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I dunno about giving him the belt, but putting Santino in a title match in the main event of a Raw could've made for a hell of a memorsble evening. He was the last eliminated in one of the 2012 Chamber matches. Bryan did a nice underestimate->kill sequence with him and the crowd was super hot for it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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