MAY WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[piranesi]

A big problem they haven't really solved with the Wyatt's gimmick is how to end feuds.  There is nothing about them that would be satisfied with merely winning a match (although they've done a hell of a job trying to make the analogy with Cena between winning/losing a match and winning/losing faith).

 

But there's always this problem.  If they lose the blowoff...there is no reason for them to go away.  And if they win, then what?  They made Kane disappear but then he turned up as a corporate shill, totally unrelated to them.  It's so hard to know what is exactly at stake.  They sort of lucked into being able to tie the half/half reactions Cena gets to them and that is something.  But they've never really been able to "do" something terrible to someone they've targeted.  And when they've been beaten (as by Bryan) they just immediately jump to another feud (which is what a wrestler does, not what an apocalyptic madman does).

 

If there is a way they could continue to target babyfaces and suck their heat away, that could be something.  Like, you don't want Bray targeting you because he will turn you heel and drain your merch sales!  Like maybe send them after babyfaces with weaker support, and each time the Wyatt's get more popular and the person they've targeted loses their fans and slinks off now being booed instead of cheered...Then when they are getting huge face pops, have them try to do that against Bryan. 

 

It would be a pretty abstract idea for a feud but could lead to some epic crowd moments between Bray and Bryan.

[ebbie]

Didn't they already lose to DB?

 

 

And people are proclaiming Wyatt can kept the shtick up for years like Taker.

[Niners Fan in CT]

If there is a way they could continue to target babyfaces and suck their heat away

 

I'm waiting for the Hunter joke.....

[Greggulator]

 

Here's an article I wrote about the meanings, mysteries, wonders and juxtapositions of Bray Wyatt!

Talk about an oversell. He's not even close to the Mike Trout of wrestling. I like most of what he's done but I wonder if the Wyatt family really has legs. What's Bray Wyatt in 3 years? Barring injury I'm fairly certain Trout will be one of the top 3 players in baseball. I cannot say the same thing about Bray and the WWE.

Plus he better not run this dumb singing into the ground.

 

Bray Wyatt in three years is likely headlining WrestleMania. Maybe even before then.

[Reed]

David Benoit claimed in an interview yesterday that when he was visiting backstage at a WWE event, one writer took him aside and told him that WWE would almost certainly use the Benoit name in some way or other in the future. David seems to be taking this as encourage that they'll sign him one day.

 

I wonder just what this writer was on. And can I have some?

[Greggulator]

Didn't they already lose to DB?

 

 

And people are proclaiming Wyatt can kept the shtick up for years like Taker.

Bray beat DB. And he did so by catching him during his dive and throwing his head against a railing in the best spot of the year, in what would have been the best match of the year if the Elimination Chamber match against The Shield didn't happen.

[cool arrow]

David Benoit claimed in an interview yesterday that when he was visiting backstage at a WWE event, one writer took him aside and told him that WWE would almost certainly use the Benoit name in some way or other in the future. David seems to be taking this as encourage that they'll sign him one day.

 

That's some quality trolling.  I wonder if that writer was the person who told Meltzer that Punk was going to be at Raw in Chicago.

[ebbie]

 

Didn't they already lose to DB?

 

 

And people are proclaiming Wyatt can kept the shtick up for years like Taker.

Bray beat DB. And he did so by catching him during his dive and throwing his head against a railing in the best spot of the year, in what would have been the best match of the year if the Elimination Chamber match against The Shield didn't happen.

 

 

 

Yeah, but both parties moved on like nothing happened?

[Greggulator]

 

 

Didn't they already lose to DB?

 

 

And people are proclaiming Wyatt can kept the shtick up for years like Taker.

Bray beat DB. And he did so by catching him during his dive and throwing his head against a railing in the best spot of the year, in what would have been the best match of the year if the Elimination Chamber match against The Shield didn't happen.

 

 

 

Yeah, but both parties moved on like nothing happened?

 

 

That's every feud, though. They're not unique in that.

[LooseCannon]

A big problem they haven't really solved with the Wyatt's gimmick is how to end feuds.  There is nothing about them that would be satisfied with merely winning a match (although they've done a hell of a job trying to make the analogy with Cena between winning/losing a match and winning/losing faith).

 

But there's always this problem.  If they lose the blowoff...there is no reason for them to go away.  And if they win, then what?  They made Kane disappear but then he turned up as a corporate shill, totally unrelated to them.  It's so hard to know what is exactly at stake.  They sort of lucked into being able to tie the half/half reactions Cena gets to them and that is something.  But they've never really been able to "do" something terrible to someone they've targeted.  And when they've been beaten (as by Bryan) they just immediately jump to another feud (which is what a wrestler does, not what an apocalyptic madman does).

 

If there is a way they could continue to target babyfaces and suck their heat away, that could be something.  Like, you don't want Bray targeting you because he will turn you heel and drain your merch sales!  Like maybe send them after babyfaces with weaker support, and each time the Wyatt's get more popular and the person they've targeted loses their fans and slinks off now being booed instead of cheered...Then when they are getting huge face pops, have them try to do that against Bryan. 

 

It would be a pretty abstract idea for a feud but could lead to some epic crowd moments between Bray and Bryan.

 

I like how you assume the Wyatts will always stay together and that they will remain as heels.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I wouldn't worry about nothing coming from this Cena/Bray feud, nothing ever comes from a Cena feud. Whether he wins or loses he'll be cutting the same exact promo the following night.

[piranesi]

 

A big problem they haven't really solved with the Wyatt's gimmick is how to end feuds.  There is nothing about them that would be satisfied with merely winning a match (although they've done a hell of a job trying to make the analogy with Cena between winning/losing a match and winning/losing faith).

 

But there's always this problem.  If they lose the blowoff...there is no reason for them to go away.  And if they win, then what?  They made Kane disappear but then he turned up as a corporate shill, totally unrelated to them.  It's so hard to know what is exactly at stake.  They sort of lucked into being able to tie the half/half reactions Cena gets to them and that is something.  But they've never really been able to "do" something terrible to someone they've targeted.  And when they've been beaten (as by Bryan) they just immediately jump to another feud (which is what a wrestler does, not what an apocalyptic madman does).

 

If there is a way they could continue to target babyfaces and suck their heat away, that could be something.  Like, you don't want Bray targeting you because he will turn you heel and drain your merch sales!  Like maybe send them after babyfaces with weaker support, and each time the Wyatt's get more popular and the person they've targeted loses their fans and slinks off now being booed instead of cheered...Then when they are getting huge face pops, have them try to do that against Bryan. 

 

It would be a pretty abstract idea for a feud but could lead to some epic crowd moments between Bray and Bryan.

 

I like how you assume the Wyatts will always stay together and that they will remain as heels.

 

 

I think it would be nice to stay that way at least long enough to win a big feud.  But that thing I'm describing doesn't have them exactly  as heels.  They are heels, in the mind of the babyface they attack...and they would totally present themselves as such.  But it relies on the audience pretty much backing them as faces.

 

In other words, the audience is turning them now, and they take and use that energy for evil, to hurt other babyfaces rather than going after heels.  Since what they are fighting over is fan support, it would have to be that way.

 

Then when they go after Bryan again, they would likely fail because the fans won't turn on him.

[odessasteps]

If jim ross wants to see people acting like villains, he should have seen some of the tecnicos tonight in arena mexico. Three different babyfaces heeling it up fierce.

[GoOnAndWalkItOut]

 

I went to the FIP show in Orlando tonight. Not a very good show when the best match was a Bravado match. Lots of bad finishes including the main with Rodrick Strong getting Dq'd for hitting Trent? with a title belt. That match was just so lifeless. I also really liked the Mia Yim vs ivelisse match till the bad finish with the Savages getting involved and beating up both women. I'm really surprised neither woman is in the two big leagues these days. Both are better than most of the knockouts at least. Trevor Lee for CWF Mid Atlantic and Tim Donst were also on the show.  Trevor is a really good heel and has potential.  Donst looked way bigger than I thought he would. Too bad they were booked in a clusterufck 4 way elimination tag match. Highlight of the night was Maxwell Chicago though. He's not for everyone but he's easily my favorite indie guy these days along with Mike Cruz.

This might sound weird, but I used to download videos of Trevor Lee when he was a backyarder and he would do the most ridiculous running shooting star press where he'd get this insane height and distance. It's stuck with me for the last 11 years, it was like an olympic long jumper doing an SSP.

 

Co-sign this. On the old BYWL dudes know who MindBender(I think?) TL, Trevor Lee...with that fucking nasty yet beautiful and poetic running shooting star press. I've brought him up with a few of the other guys I still talk to from that time, but none of them mentioned still being in contact. That running shoot star though...ugh. 

[Cobra Commander]

If jim ross wants to see people acting like villains, he should have seen some of the tecnicos tonight in arena mexico. Three different babyfaces heeling it up fierce.

there's a 100% chance that Jim Ross is confused by lucha psychology.

 

Although he might appreciate it if the refs called DQs for ball shots and mask removal.

[Big Fresh]

I've always assumed anyone who claims to get Lucha psychology was lying.

[bucky]

 

 

I went to the FIP show in Orlando tonight. Not a very good show when the best match was a Bravado match. Lots of bad finishes including the main with Rodrick Strong getting Dq'd for hitting Trent? with a title belt. That match was just so lifeless. I also really liked the Mia Yim vs ivelisse match till the bad finish with the Savages getting involved and beating up both women. I'm really surprised neither woman is in the two big leagues these days. Both are better than most of the knockouts at least. Trevor Lee for CWF Mid Atlantic and Tim Donst were also on the show.  Trevor is a really good heel and has potential.  Donst looked way bigger than I thought he would. Too bad they were booked in a clusterufck 4 way elimination tag match. Highlight of the night was Maxwell Chicago though. He's not for everyone but he's easily my favorite indie guy these days along with Mike Cruz.

This might sound weird, but I used to download videos of Trevor Lee when he was a backyarder and he would do the most ridiculous running shooting star press where he'd get this insane height and distance. It's stuck with me for the last 11 years, it was like an olympic long jumper doing an SSP.

 

Co-sign this. On the old BYWL dudes know who MindBender(I think?) TL, Trevor Lee...with that fucking nasty yet beautiful and poetic running shooting star press. I've brought him up with a few of the other guys I still talk to from that time, but none of them mentioned still being in contact. That running shoot star though...ugh. 

 

Awesome, someone else knows what I'm talking about. I always wonder what happened to those guys. I know a lot of the Rhode Island guys went on to create Beyond Wrestling and some of the Vancouver guys went pro. I know Scott Henson still posts here, at least in the puro folder.

[GoOnAndWalkItOut]

.

[GoOnAndWalkItOut]

 

 

 

I went to the FIP show in Orlando tonight. Not a very good show when the best match was a Bravado match. Lots of bad finishes including the main with Rodrick Strong getting Dq'd for hitting Trent? with a title belt. That match was just so lifeless. I also really liked the Mia Yim vs ivelisse match till the bad finish with the Savages getting involved and beating up both women. I'm really surprised neither woman is in the two big leagues these days. Both are better than most of the knockouts at least. Trevor Lee for CWF Mid Atlantic and Tim Donst were also on the show.  Trevor is a really good heel and has potential.  Donst looked way bigger than I thought he would. Too bad they were booked in a clusterufck 4 way elimination tag match. Highlight of the night was Maxwell Chicago though. He's not for everyone but he's easily my favorite indie guy these days along with Mike Cruz.

This might sound weird, but I used to download videos of Trevor Lee when he was a backyarder and he would do the most ridiculous running shooting star press where he'd get this insane height and distance. It's stuck with me for the last 11 years, it was like an olympic long jumper doing an SSP.

 

Co-sign this. On the old BYWL dudes know who MindBender(I think?) TL, Trevor Lee...with that fucking nasty yet beautiful and poetic running shooting star press. I've brought him up with a few of the other guys I still talk to from that time, but none of them mentioned still being in contact. That running shoot star though...ugh. 

 

Awesome, someone else knows what I'm talking about. I always wonder what happened to those guys. I know a lot of the Rhode Island guys went on to create Beyond Wrestling and some of the Vancouver guys went pro. I know Scott Henson still posts here, at least in the puro folder.

 

Yeah, I still talk to a few of those gentlemen on Facebook. That running shooting star though...I'd love to see a clip of it now to see if it's as dope as I remember it being.

[RandomAct]

I've always assumed anyone who claims to get Lucha psychology was lying.

 

You and me both.  I never understand what I'm even supposed to be watching.

 

 

 

 

 

I went to the FIP show in Orlando tonight. Not a very good show when the best match was a Bravado match. Lots of bad finishes including the main with Rodrick Strong getting Dq'd for hitting Trent? with a title belt. That match was just so lifeless. I also really liked the Mia Yim vs ivelisse match till the bad finish with the Savages getting involved and beating up both women. I'm really surprised neither woman is in the two big leagues these days. Both are better than most of the knockouts at least. Trevor Lee for CWF Mid Atlantic and Tim Donst were also on the show.  Trevor is a really good heel and has potential.  Donst looked way bigger than I thought he would. Too bad they were booked in a clusterufck 4 way elimination tag match. Highlight of the night was Maxwell Chicago though. He's not for everyone but he's easily my favorite indie guy these days along with Mike Cruz.

This might sound weird, but I used to download videos of Trevor Lee when he was a backyarder and he would do the most ridiculous running shooting star press where he'd get this insane height and distance. It's stuck with me for the last 11 years, it was like an olympic long jumper doing an SSP.

 

Co-sign this. On the old BYWL dudes know who MindBender(I think?) TL, Trevor Lee...with that fucking nasty yet beautiful and poetic running shooting star press. I've brought him up with a few of the other guys I still talk to from that time, but none of them mentioned still being in contact. That running shoot star though...ugh. 

 

Awesome, someone else knows what I'm talking about. I always wonder what happened to those guys. I know a lot of the Rhode Island guys went on to create Beyond Wrestling and some of the Vancouver guys went pro. I know Scott Henson still posts here, at least in the puro folder.

 

Yeah, I still talk to a few of those gentlemen on Facebook. That running shooting star though...I'd love to see a clip of it now to see if it's as dope as I remember it being.

 

Funny thing about Trevor, is that at 20-21, he was already smart enough to completely eliminate the flippy shit from his offense.  He stuff is super credible and works great for him.

[RIPPA]

Y 'all realize you can respond with quoting like 15 fucking posts right?

[AND THE BEAT GOES ON!]

Surely someone somewhere has written a primer on lucha psychology. I'd read that. I think it was Rush or someone else super pimped during March Madness where I watched about 3 minutes of a sample match and turned it off in the same kind of disgusted reaction a total non-fan would have. But I didn't really like that in myself and I'm open to trying again

[odessasteps]

Matt should write it since

1. He has immersed himself in it lately.

2. He has jury duty and needs something to do.

[Matt D]

I would have to do it on my phone and anyway my rushed (pun!) Segunda Caida post today was half about how I did not understand CMLL's revenue sources, so i am not yet ready.

[odessasteps]

Paco owns all the buildings.