20 YEARS AGO TODAY - Cobain RIP

[OSJ]

Yeah, I'm a little older than the guys in the band, but for those of us who were there, (particularly those of us lucky enough to live in the PNW), Nirvana was like the Beatles or Stones. Put me down as one of those that think's his bitch wife had something to do with it, (of course, if I dig enough drugs and woke up married to Courtney Love, I'd probably blow my head off , too.)

[Jenalysis]

This is one of the few days of my teenage years I remember clearly.

[BrianS81177]

It seems so weird to think that Nirvana had such a huge impact, yet only released 4 studio albums (Bleach, Nevermind, Incesticide, In Utero). I agree with the comparison to the Beatles and Stones. I was 14 when Nevermind came out, and I witnessed first hand how people went from listening to Motley Crue, Def Leppard, etc to Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. I wish that bitch would stop sitting on all the (supposed) unreleased material he recorded before his death.

[OSJ]

I actually wish she would eat a shotgun herself. I've met her several times and she is every bit the bitch that you would think she is. I don't wish death on many people, but she is more than deserving of an early demise.

[Ace]

Most overrated frontman of all time.

[OSJ]

Most overrated frontman of all time.

 

Well, he was no Lux Interior, but then who is?

[Ace]

I never understood the deification of Cobain when he was alive, and certainly not after he selfishly blew his head off. I find most glorification of him crass and sleazy. I especially dont get why people bag on Courtney yet think Kurt wasn't just as much an aggrandizing prick as she was. As far as dead junkies from the Seattle area go, give me Andrew Wood over Kurt Cobain any day.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Probably shouldn't be surprised given, well, you know who being involved, but there's nothing quite as jarring as people using a memorial thread to shit on someone else

[OSJ]

I never understood the deification of Cobain when he was alive, and certainly not after he selfishly blew his head off. I find most glorification of him crass and sleazy. I especially dont get why people bag on Courtney yet think Kurt wasn't just as much an aggrandizing prick as she was. As far as dead junkies from the Seattle area go, give me Andrew Wood over Kurt Cobain any day.

 

You really had to have been there. No, he's not even in my top ten frontmen, but you cannot deny just how huge Nirvana was. The only thing I can personally compare it to was the advent of the Ramones and Sex Pistols years earlier. Seattle grunge was a welcome antidote to head-banging and arena rock. Amusingly enough, I no longer see that ranting of FSW, Antacular, and their bastard child, offspring515, so this thread may continue with normal, polite discourse. Personally, I preferred Pearl Jam, but even though they were far better, I think Cobain's influence helped. Never underestimate the inherent charisma of the "tortured artist type".

[LooseCannon]

I actually wish she would eat a shotgun herself. I've met her several times and she is every bit the bitch that you would think she is. I don't wish death on many people, but she is more than deserving of an early demise.

So, you're saying if you had one complaint about Cobain, it's that if he was going to off himself, it's a shame he didn't go with the murder-suicide option? How would she be remembered if he had killed her before killing himself?

[caley]

I remember wondering what this guy Dave I knew would think when I first heard the news.  Dave had been in a class with me earlier in the year and despite not knowing me, decided it was a good time to regale me with all the Kurt Cobain facts he could muster and he completely idolized him.  I saw him later that day and he was just shaking his head in disbelief and figured he'd been murdered.  The death actually hit me a lot harder about a year later, because I suddenly got back into Nirvana while reading 'Come As You Are' and finding a lot in common with Cobain (Then again, I think most teenagers could identify with that story).  But it was about a year later, while listening to 'In Utero' that I suddenly went "Well, shit, no more Nirvana records!"

 

BTW,

01.Serve the Servants

02. Territorial Pissings

03. Lounge Act

04. Smells Like Teen Spirit

05. All Apologies

06. Rape Me

07. On A Plain

08. Aneurysm

09. Sliver

10. I Hate Myself and Want to Die

[OSJ]

 

I actually wish she would eat a shotgun herself. I've met her several times and she is every bit the bitch that you would think she is. I don't wish death on many people, but she is more than deserving of an early demise.

So, you're saying if you had one complaint about Cobain, it's that if he was going to off himself, it's a shame he didn't go with the murder-suicide option? How would she be remembered if he had killed her before killing himself?

 

No, I am really not that mean-spirited, that post was full of hyperbole; however, I DO think she had something to do with his death, whether it was just badgering him relentlessly when he was stoned, or a more active role, I couldn't say. Personally, I don't think she's going to be remembered at all other than as an unpleasant footnote in rock history.

[caley]

 

 

I actually wish she would eat a shotgun herself. I've met her several times and she is every bit the bitch that you would think she is. I don't wish death on many people, but she is more than deserving of an early demise.

So, you're saying if you had one complaint about Cobain, it's that if he was going to off himself, it's a shame he didn't go with the murder-suicide option? How would she be remembered if he had killed her before killing himself?

 

No, I am really not that mean-spirited, that post was full of hyperbole; however, I DO think she had something to do with his death, whether it was just badgering him relentlessly when he was stoned, or a more active role, I couldn't say. 

 

Eh, I tend to think this is something Cobain (All) Apologists came up with to try to justify a man they idolize doing a really selfish and shitty thing to his daughter, friends, family, wife.  I mean, if Love WAS badgering Cobain while he was stoned, could you blame her?  Dude reportedly was busy stealing morphine from a hospital the day his daughter was born and had OD'ed a couple times in the last year before killing himself.  He DESERVED to be relentlessly badgered in a "Seriously, you have a daughter, get your shit together" kind of way.  I'm not saying Love was any sort of mother-of-the-year, but at least she didn't shoot herself and let someone else deal with her daughter.

 

 

 

Personally, I don't think she's going to be remembered at all other than as an unpleasant footnote in rock history.

Albums sales of 1.4 and 1.6 million, respectively for the 2nd and 3rd Hole albums are pretty significant "footnotes".  It's actually  a pretty solid amount, especially for 'Celebrity Skin' considering rock was kinda starting to disappear into the abyss, sales-wise, with the arrival of Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys.

[OSJ]

 

 

 

I actually wish she would eat a shotgun herself. I've met her several times and she is every bit the bitch that you would think she is. I don't wish death on many people, but she is more than deserving of an early demise.

So, you're saying if you had one complaint about Cobain, it's that if he was going to off himself, it's a shame he didn't go with the murder-suicide option? How would she be remembered if he had killed her before killing himself?

 

No, I am really not that mean-spirited, that post was full of hyperbole; however, I DO think she had something to do with his death, whether it was just badgering him relentlessly when he was stoned, or a more active role, I couldn't say. 

 

Eh, I tend to think this is something Cobain (All) Apologists came up with to try to justify a man they idolize doing a really selfish and shitty thing to his daughter, friends, family, wife.  I mean, if Love WAS badgering Cobain while he was stoned, could you blame her?  Dude reportedly was busy stealing morphine from a hospital the day his daughter was born and had OD'ed a couple times in the last year before killing himself.  He DESERVED to be relentlessly badgered in a "Seriously, you have a daughter, get your shit together" kind of way.  I'm not saying Love was any sort of mother-of-the-year, but at least she didn't shoot herself and let someone else deal with her daughter.

 

 

 

Personally, I don't think she's going to be remembered at all other than as an unpleasant footnote in rock history.

Albums sales of 1.4 and 1.6 million, respectively for the 2nd and 3rd Hole albums are pretty significant "footnotes".  It's actually  a pretty solid amount, especially for 'Celebrity Skin' considering rock was kinda starting to disappear into the abyss, sales-wise, with the arrival of Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys.

 

 

Caley: In point of fact, she DID let someone else deal with her daughter, (which is likely why Frances Bean seems pretty much okay). Having seen Hole live a time or two, I can only attribute the album sales to overflow from Nirvana, not unlike the shitty restaurant that fills up because the good place next door is full.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Sociopath

[caley]

 

Caley: In point of fact, she DID let someone else deal with her daughter, (which is likely why Frances Bean seems pretty much okay). 

 

Not the same thing, really.  I'm not saying she's a good parent, nor am I disagreeing with the assertion that Frances Bean's seemingly being okay has to do with not being raised by her mother.  But Courtney didn't cop out on raising the kid, she had it taken away.  Whether or not it was right (and it almost certainly was right), at least Love didn't abandon Frances, unlike Kurt.

 

[OSJ]

 

 

Caley: In point of fact, she DID let someone else deal with her daughter, (which is likely why Frances Bean seems pretty much okay). 

 

Not the same thing, really.  I'm not saying she's a good parent, nor am I disagreeing with the assertion that Frances Bean's seemingly being okay has to do with not being raised by her mother.  But Courtney didn't cop out on raising the kid, she had it taken away.  Whether or not it was right (and it almost certainly was right), at least Love didn't abandon Frances, unlike Kurt.

 

 

You are of course, correct. Suicide is an incredibly shitty thing to do to others, particularly if you have little ones relying on you to protect and raise them. I can well recall being so depressed that I didn't want to get up in the morning, (years ago until I found a way to treat it), but even in the blackest depths of depression I couldn't imagine leaving my wife and my friends to deal with the aftermath.

[Ace]

Speaking of Seattle frontmen better than Cobain, Layne Staley died 12 years ago today as well.

[OSJ]

Speaking of Seattle frontmen better than Cobain, Layne Staley died 12 years ago today as well.

 

Dude died a slow, awful death. You'd think with that much money you could find a hook-up for pharmaceutical morphine instead of buying H on the street. (Not recommending either, of course.) Has it really been only twelve years? Seems like longer, but that's probably because he became too fucked up to perform with the band years before he died.

[LooseCannon]

Caley: In point of fact, she DID let someone else deal with her daughter, (which is likely why Frances Bean seems pretty much okay).

Not the same thing, really.  I'm not saying she's a good parent, nor am I disagreeing with the assertion that Frances Bean's seemingly being okay has to do with not being raised by her mother.  But Courtney didn't cop out on raising the kid, she had it taken away.  Whether or not it was right (and it almost certainly was right), at least Love didn't abandon Frances, unlike Kurt.

You are of course, correct. Suicide is an incredibly shitty thing to do to others, particularly if you have little ones relying on you to protect and raise them. I can well recall being so depressed that I didn't want to get up in the morning, (years ago until I found a way to treat it), but even in the blackest depths of depression I couldn't imagine leaving my wife and my friends to deal with the aftermath.

And that's why some people decide to not leave anyone close to them alive to deal with the aftermath. That's not snark, but an honest appraisal of how some people really do think. That's probably what would be crossing my mind if I were the sort to be in a deep suicidal depression.

[MORELOCK]

Some things:

 

1. Incesticide isn't a studio album, it's a B-Sides and Rarities type deal.

2. No real reason to degrade Hole as a band because Courtney is insufferable. Live Through This produced "Violet," "Doll Parts," and "Miss World," while Celebrity Skin produced its title track, "Malibu," and "Awful." These all did well because they are *good songs*, which irrational hatred of the singer could keep you from seeing.

3. OSJ with "Amusingly enough, I no longer see that ranting of FSW, Antacular, and their bastard child, offspring515, so this thread may continue with normal, polite discourse" IMMEDIATELY below FSW's post, which he allegedly cannot see.

 

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Kurt would have taken issue with the "polite discourse" of throwing the word "bitch" around like you're fucking Ice Cube or something

[OSJ]

Some things:

 

1. Incesticide isn't a studio album, it's a B-Sides and Rarities type deal.

2. No real reason to degrade Hole as a band because Courtney is insufferable. Live Through This produced "Violet," "Doll Parts," and "Miss World," while Celebrity Skin produced its title track, "Malibu," and "Awful." These all did well because they are *good songs*, which irrational hatred of the singer could keep you from seeing.

3. OSJ with "Amusingly enough, I no longer see that ranting of FSW, Antacular, and their bastard child, offspring515, so this thread may continue with normal, polite discourse" IMMEDIATELY below FSW's post, which he allegedly cannot see.

 

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Kurt would have taken issue with the "polite discourse" of throwing the word "bitch" around like you're fucking Ice Cube or something

 

No allegedly about it, Stephen; they are on ignore as you would be, but you occasionally have something worthwhile to say. I'm afraid that we must agree to disagree as to the merits of "Violet", "Miss World", & "Malibu", but I will give you "Doll Parts" and "Awful". Yes, they are good songs, but if I had a nickel for every band that produced two good songs and DIDN'T get to coast on someone else's coat-tails, I could have retired a long time ago. As for my use of "bitch", I calls 'em as I sees 'em. As for Ice Cube, I didn't think you were old enough to recall his heyday, glad to see I was wrong; you kids give me hope for the future sometimes. ;-)

[nofuture]

 

Being in high school when Kurt died, watching this makes me feel real old.

[Burgundy LaRue]

 As far as dead junkies from the Seattle area go, give me Andrew Wood over Kurt Cobain any day.

 

I'll raise you:

 

 

[OSJ]

Can't argue with that. The fact that many (if not most) of the folks weren't even born when Jimi died makes me feel very old. I was in junior high and losing Janis and Jimi in the same year was perhaps my first realization of mortality. Listening to Hendrix now after all the guitar greats that came after him one realizes just how amazingly good and influential he was. He was only 28 when he passed, can you imagine what he would have done with another forty years (musicians, like fine wine tend to improve with age)? The mind boggles at what he might have achieved, I think the only real comparison we may have is Jeff Beck. I don't like everything he does, but I cannot argue with the sheer virtuosity he brings to every performance. Thing is, Jimi was even more innovative than Beck.