Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

DVDVRMM: THE FINALS~! BRYAN vs. CESARO


DANIEL BRYAN vs. CESARO  

169 members have voted

  1. 1. WHOSE CUISINE REIGNS SUPREME?



Recommended Posts

But it does make it easier to fail.  I argued this point last year against Bryan and I will argue it this year for him.  10 minutes of mic time every week is a little bit fucking harder than a couple pre-taped NXT promos and smiling behind Zeb.

 

Degree of difficulty counts for something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe Emma would have had a shot to beat either of these guys, but jae had to be pro-Jap and anti-vagina.

 

Um, dude...

 

Anyway, I honestly had no idea which way I was going to vote coming in. But as I went through this thread, I found Jrag's arguments highly cogent and irrefutable. Beyond that, the following thought occurred to me: when I watch Raw, I'm usually on my computer and half paying attention. But when Daniel Bryan is involved in something, be it a match, promo, or anything else, he almost always has my undivided attention. So there you go.

 

Daniel Bryan. Now more than ever. For your future. For your children's future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me rephrase: Can someone direct me to an effective Cesaro promo that wasn't in WWE's developmental system?

 

It's comparing apples to oranges. Bryan is getting 15,000 people into a frenzy, Cesaro is doing backstage promos on a show a few hundred people watch.

 

While Bryan has gained a well-deserved reputation for making anything work,  Cesaro is on his third gimmick and will likely soon to get another. Yodeling Antonio anyone?

 

I don't know how you can ignore that the crowd has no connection to the guy. He doesn't even get a Ziggler pop. And this is someone who has been wrestling non-stop and semi-protected on the WWE A and B shows for two years straight. Each time out he has to prove to the audience that they like watching him. And he usually does. Then has to start from scratch the next night.

 

It just seems like because Cesaro is coming into his own but has yet to get that big push and fully break through he gets adopted like a puppy. The fact that he wrestles on C-Shows and in developmental on shows nobody actually watches only adds to this because people can find matches others haven't been exposed to. It gives them indi cred.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me rephrase: Can someone direct me to an effective Cesaro promo that wasn't in WWE's developmental system?

 

It's comparing apples to oranges. Bryan is getting 15,000 people into a frenzy, Cesaro is doing backstage promos on a show a few hundred people watch.

 

While Bryan has gained a well-deserved reputation for making anything work,  Cesaro is on his third gimmick and will likely soon to get another. Yodeling Antonio anyone?

 

I don't know how you can ignore that the crowd has no connection to the guy. He doesn't even get a Ziggler pop. And this is someone who has been wrestling non-stop and semi-protected on the WWE A and B shows for two years straight. Each time out he has to prove to the audience that they like watching him. And he usually does. Then has to start from scratch the next night.

 

It just seems like because Cesaro is coming into his own but has yet to get that big push and fully break through he gets adopted like a puppy. The fact that he wrestles on C-Shows and in developmental on shows nobody actually watches only adds to this because people can find matches others haven't been exposed to. It gives them indi cred.

 

I'm confused by your 'how many people it was in front of' logic. Was Daniel Bryan then a shittier wrestler than the Miz when Bryan was in PWG and Miz was carrying gold on Raw? 

 

As for Cesaro not getting pops or getting over...I...what?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone knows that a promo backstage in NXT is way easier than a promo backstage on RAW.  Duh.

 

I'm confused.  Are the non-Cesaro voters not voting for him because he only got over because of the Cesaro Swing or because he's not over at all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe Emma would have had a shot to beat either of these guys, but jae had to be pro-Jap and anti-vagina.

I'm gonna have to ask you to cut that the fuck out.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Not to a bunch of butthurt CM Punk fans, it doesn't.

 

The fuck? I'm trying to help you out here, bro.   

 

 

This is one of those moments where the board can't see the goofy, shit-eating grin I have on my face the whole time I'm posting and reading this thread.

 

Wait, what I really meant to say was KICKWHAMSTUNNER.  D.T.A.

 

And in googling to find an image to accompany that sentence, this is the #1 "kick wham stunner" result:

 

28vQp3l.jpg

 

I think the universe is pretty clear on this everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're not comparing someone who wrestles in front of hundreds of people to someone who wrestles in front of thousands.  Cesaro is not in PWG. He's in the WWE. He wrestles on the same shows before tens of thousands of people like Bryan does and often is given a decent amount of time.

 

So when the top promos people can show are backstage segments on a companies developmental show.

 

When the top matches are from a companies developmental or C-shows, I have to wonder why this isn't routinely happening on the big stage he is given each and every week.

 

Cesaro is a fantastic wrestler, but this is the final for the best wrestler in the world.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think both guys deserve to win. So either going over here is fine. But I voted for Daniel Bryan and honestly believe he had the best year in professional wrestling if only through an argument of uniqueness.

 

Cesaro had an amazing year with consistently good work with a variety of opponents in a variety of roles. His year, however, is non-unique. Given his place on the card and the undue lack of focus from creative, he could have this exact same amazing year next year. Cesaro is one of the best in the world, but he is getting better and working toward bigger years in the future. As it stands, this was a year of getting noticed and building momentum, but I do not think it was his breakout year or a particularly important year in his career despite the high quality of his matches.

 

Bryan, on the other hand, has been the focus of the company for months. He has risen above inconsistent booking and adhered himself so fully to the WWE Universe that the company was essentially forced to put in his current position heading into Wrestlemania. Not only has he had high quality matches, but he has had them on a weekly featured basis for almost the entirety of the voting period. Bryan might have had better in-ring years, but his character development, emotional responses, and ability to carry a crowd is unparalleled. This year is unique for Bryan and, as such, I believe he deserves to win here.

 

Pro wrestling is a lot of things. It's not just who can make the most sense in the established, but always inconsistent, logic of the medium. Ring work isn't everything. And when it comes to being a complete professional wrestler, I simply think that Daniel Bryan was a better professional wrestler than Antonio Cesaro this past year.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're not comparing someone who wrestles in front of hundreds of people to someone who wrestles in front of thousands.  Cesaro is not in PWG. He's in the WWE. He wrestles on the same shows before tens of thousands of people like Bryan does and often is given a decent amount of time.

 

So when the top promos people can show are backstage segments on a companies developmental show.

 

When the top matches are from a companies developmental or C-shows, I have to wonder why this isn't routinely happening on the big stage he is given each and every week.

 

Cesaro is a fantastic wrestler, but this is the final for the best wrestler in the world.

I don't know how this is hard to follow. A good promo is a good promo. Regardless of it is backstage or in front of a crowd, in front of ten people and a dog in Bumfuck, Idaho or on the Raw before Wrestlemania. And please, where are these opportunities to perform promos on the "big stage he is given each and every week." I get that everyone has decided they wish they were FSW for the duration of March Madness, but unless you are actually him I don't think you get a pass for saying really stupid things. One FSW gimmick is plenty, all his copycats are just godawful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're not comparing someone who wrestles in front of hundreds of people to someone who wrestles in front of thousands.  Cesaro is not in PWG. He's in the WWE. He wrestles on the same shows before tens of thousands of people like Bryan does and often is given a decent amount of time.

 

So when the top promos people can show are backstage segments on a companies developmental show.

 

When the top matches are from a companies developmental or C-shows, I have to wonder why this isn't routinely happening on the big stage he is given each and every week.

 

Cesaro is a fantastic wrestler, but this is the final for the best wrestler in the world.

 

Which he is. Glad we all can agree!

 

EDIT: I'll put it this way. You know why Eddie Guerrero is my favorite wrestler of all time? He was versatile beyond belief. You could put them in against anyone and expect something entertaining

 

I don't think there is a wrestler in the world that is true about more then Cesaro right now. I'd say it's more true then it is for Bryan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bryan has improved by leaps and bounds as a promo, but let's not pretend he is Dusty Rhodes telling us about hard times every week. I don't want to come across as accusatory, but I feel like some people are muddling together having the most over catch phrase with being a good promo. 

 

I voted for Cesaro. I feel like anything I say in his defense will just be parroting back someone else, and there are plenty of people on here that are more eloquent than I. Bryan has spent the entire year in programs that I am going to watch anyway because I like the Shield, I like the Wyatts, I like Randy Orton and I like HHH. I'm not denying that he brought more than his share to these programs, and that Bryan has an uncanny ability to make others around him strive to be better. Cesaro comes out every week to have a tag match with Jack Swagger or a singles match against someone like Kofi Kingston. Every week, I roll my eyes, but Cesaro works in something that makes me go "Oh, shit!" like the tiger uppercut, or his insane double stomps. I think Cesaro has not only shined in his tag team, but he has found really subtle and interesting ways to get his partner over, which is a really hard task (made exponentially harder by Swagger being terrible). The Money in the Bank match has a few really great spots with Cesaro that establish the really well. It's like watching Lebron James pass to Larry Hughes just to keep him in rhythm. Much of Bryan's work is like watching Lebron James pass to Dwyane Wade just to keep him in rhythm. 

 

I would also say that while I would not go so far as to say that Bryan is formulaic, I would say that Cesaro is the best person on the roster at hitting his signature spots from interesting and unique situations and angles. It really gives his ring work a great aspect of making his character seem like a studied and talented wrestler, who puts in as much time studying tape as he does on his own in ring work. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I concede on his fucking shiny head. Jesus Christ, I never noticed how blinding that shit is.

 

 

What, you want his dome to be leaden?

 

One should have a beaming noggin if bald. Women are also attracted to it. They'll rub it and say how smooth it is and this sentence can totally be misconstrued

 

So is Bryan v. Antonio is a referendum on hair and shaving products?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point for Cesaro: Everything Matt D and Dylan said. They broke it down way better than I could. Cesaro is like Scottie Pippen -- he has a lot of roles he has to fill right not and does all of them incredibly well.

 

Point against Cesaro: I'm trying to think of a Real Americans tag team match during the time period off the top of my head and I can't. And it's not a Shield argument where "everyone is so good." They had to have some great stuff against The Rhodes Brothers and The Usos... only I can't remember one at all.

Hmm... this is TOUGH.

 

I'm going with Cesaro. Just by a nudge. But I'm largely doing this because I can identify with being turned heel for liking something a lot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Voted for bryan in the end. He's truly on the cusp of greatness, he's 5'8" and a not great promo so you'd have to conclude that this is mainly to do with his ring work. He connects with everyone, and even the most careful attention to detail digs up a few nitpicks. I see the point when people say cesaro is less formulaic etc. but wrestling is best viewed live - people see bryan do the run the ropes -> duck clothesline -> tope sequence on tv, then when wwe is in town they see it live and pop in recognition. All of them.

Bryan is this generation's guy as long as they don't fuck it up. Cesaro probably edges bryan as a mechanic, but Bryan is lightyears ahead as a star. Bryan would have to have some massive, massive flaws as a worker for cesaro to overcome that, and no one is arguing that he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...