IpponDropkick Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Watching the mental breakdowns some of you are having is making this pretty fun. Anyway: Cesaro. I liked Bryan a LOT this year and it's super close, but the Cesaro stuff was the most compelling stuff of the year for me. Bryan's matches were solid but there's been so many starts and stops in his momentum, so many irritating little things about the way he talks and yes, a few matches that didn't do much for me. Cesaro on the other hand, for about half the grading period has had this very slow burn face turn going. First earning our respect by putting on fantastic matches, then the waters being tested by beating guys we hate. It's "organic" just as the "yes movement" became manufactured. Seeing what Antonio Cesaro becomes is honestly far more exciting to me than even Bryan getting his long overdue wrestlemania moment. There was no match this year that got to me on the emotional level that Regal/Cesaro did. Absolutely nothing. Regal's prematch promo was great and Cesaro's growling out the words "Far better man." made me wish more than anything that Regal would pull it out even though there was no chance of it happening. In NXT this year, Cesaro's been booked as an unstoppable force. He's the guy that no matter how good you are, he will eventually say "This. Is. OVER!" and uppercut your face off. Kruger, Zayn, Regal were all matches where going in I KNEW who the winner would be. And it didn't matter. They were compelling for reasons entirely other than who's going to win. It's close, but it's Cesaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 IMO you can see a clear dividing line between Cesaro fans and Bryan fans. Which side will you stand on? Matt Dumb as he is apparently known and DylanWaco, who doesn't follow people back in Twitter...or FSDub and the Fun Gang? Look guy I will follow you back. I swear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I will notify the board when it happens. I am nothing but fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Dylan followed me back on Twitter, FSW, maybe you've become toxic? Maybe he just likes horse jokes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Cesaro's matwork in the Cena match carried the entire opening portion of the match and ruled. The matwork at the beginning of Cena-Bryan was mediocre at best. Great, Bryan's kicks connect. There's a clear degradation in his kicking that started somewhere around the match he had vs Cena on Raw but he'd work around it then and it didn't matter. Now he's got his shtick and his shtick is inferior to Cesaro Uppercuting people's jaws off. Bryan wasn't presented as a throwaway midcard act booked in semi-comedy matches. I hate Randy Orton but at least he's proven to be carriable. Meanwhile Cesaro has been expected to make something from nothing and he has produced great stuff while doing so against completely lackluster opponents. Yes, Bryan's hot right now. Good for him he's earned it. But hotness doesn't beat deadlifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Bryan wasn't presented as a throwaway midcard act booked in semi-comedy matches. Meanwhile Cesaro has been expected to make something from nothing and he has produced great stuff while doing so against completely lackluster opponents. You just described the last few years of Bryan's career leading up to his breakout. Most of that stuff happened before the voting period, sure, but it's foolish to try and earn points for Cesaro with these talking points when Bryan has already been through all that. He came out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 "Five Moves of Doom" "Coasting" I've almost got BINGO. Fuck. I still need a "boys in the back" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND THE BEAT GOES ON! Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think it's worth pointing out that if you watch any old danielson it's obvious that he can mat wrestle and sell in complex and consistent fashion. The simplification of his style is intended. So in some way a vote against bryan is a referendum on wwe main event style... That said, I'm completely on the fence at the moment, cena/bryan was my moty on an emotional level, and cesaro/regal catered more or less perfectly to my tastes on a mechanical level. I tend to weigh heavily towards high points so I'm going to watch both of those again at least before I vote. I'll say this though - the finishing run of cena/bryan was the essence of why I watch wrestling as a grown ass man, a totally transcendent moment where I just wanted him to fucking win. They're both great and I really think whichever way you vote will tell you more about yourself as a fan of the prowres and what you value than about either guy per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'm strongly leaning towards Cesaro because while he and Bryan both had an amazing year I felt some of Bryan's matches (and this is a very minor criticism) were formulaic. There's nothing wrong with that but I feel Cesaro is more MUST-WATCH because he's always breaking out something new..there's more variation in his big matches like "what the hell is this monster going to do next?!" Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red is Dead Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Y'all are taking his incredibly seriously. Like unbelievably so. Take a step back, for chrissakes. That being said, davey richards to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 I don't think Daniel Bryan's matches on a whole are formulaic. He just has sequences he likes to pepper in for da pops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think they largely are formulaic, but I see that as a strength and not a weakness in a way that is impossible for me to explain right now. The exception are those rare matches where formula is used with little deviation, particularly that one Ambrose match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 That's ludicrous! Every other wrestler changes their move-set with each and every match! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Even if I know what's coming, I'm still genuinely excited when he makes his comebacks, which is really an attribute to his overal knack for timing. Hell if anything, if his matches are formulaic and they're still crazy exciting, that's an even bigger positive for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think they largely are formulaic, but I see that as a strength and not a weakness in a way that is impossible for me to explain right now. The exception are those rare matches where formula is used with little deviation, particularly that one Ambrose match. Because it conditions the fans and then plays off of their expectations, almost Flairishly? I tend to admit that the fact Bryan takes a lot more of the match recently isn't necessarily a bad decision. It's not something i'd hold against him much except for when he was up against someone like Goldust or Cesaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 So what we're saying here is Daniel Bryan should win, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 That's ludicrous! Every other wrestler changes their move-set with each and every match! We're debating only Cesaro and Bryan. When I watch Bryan for the most part I know what I'm going to see and when it's going to happen. I don't think there's anything wrong with that but when it's Cesaro... I don't know what's coming next.. In a razor close match-up like this it is that preference which is the deciding factor.. I voted Bryan over everyone last year and probably the two years before that. I voted Bryan over everyone he's faced up to this point. I enjoy the fuck out of his matches. But this year.. it's Cesaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 So what we're saying here is Daniel Bryan should win, right? We're saying that you're the Mike Ademle of March Madness Commissioners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 So what we're saying here is Daniel Bryan should win, right? We're saying that you're the Mike Ademle of March Madness Commissioners Look buddy. If I ban Waiter, I have to ban every doofus that continues to respond to him like he's serious, because they're equally disruptive. And that list is so long this place would be a ghost town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damn Yeti Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Some of these arguments are fundamentally circumstantial, and apples-to-oranges. Cesaro gets points for not wrestling against stale main event guys/wrestling against other board favorites on NXT, and now he's getting points for what essentially amounts to a lack of exposure. We've watched Bryan wrestle every week for a year, usually in the main event slot because he's the best, and therefore are completely aware of what he brings to the table. But Cesaro is still developing in the main event singles match roll and thus his matches have more capacity for surprise. Do we think that this time next year we'll still be saying things like that, or do we think that Cesaro will have laid out his arsenal by that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piston Honda Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Match-quality wise, I don’t think one truly outshines the other, they use their strengths well and build awesome matches. However, I buy Cesaro as a smug prick, I don’t buy Daniel Bryan as the anti-authority guy, when he goes out in one of the most compelling programs going, to get in the face of the people holding him down, who have been beating him down at every chance they get, and he’s got the biggest smile on his face, I feel like he deserves every ass-kicking he gets. He should be mauling fools left and right to get what he wants, but I feel like he’s five seconds away from telling the guy who beat him down, took his belt, ruined his huge moment and kicked his puppy that they are going to have a fantastic match at the next PPV, Yes, Yes, Yes, followed by getting beat down. Even if they won’t let him go on a rampage, he should be angry, Kane needed to teach the guy how to embrace the hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 IMO you can see a clear dividing line between Cesaro fans and Bryan fans. Which side will you stand on? Matt Dumb as he is apparently known and DylanWaco, who doesn't follow people back in Twitter...or FSDub and the Fun Gang? Dylan followed me back on twitter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offspring515 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Bryan should NOT be mauling guys left and right. He is not Stone Cold. He defies the Authority by overcoming the odds set before him and never giving up. Has anyone making the "Bryan is formulaic in big matches while Cesaro isn't" argument considered that might be because Cesaro has only had about 5 "big" matches all year? Of course we are more used to Bryan's formula he's been main eventing most of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 In a bubble, where you isolate each and every match, Cesaro is the better wrestler. But wrestling isn't a bubble even though I feel like a lot of people view it as one. Bryan has kept me glued to the tv screen all year and made me care more about wrestling than what many would consider healthy. Bryan has climbed the mountain and hit his ceiling. Cesaro still has room to grow. With Cesaro, the best is yet to come. His work is there and the company knows it and the smarks know it, but he hasn't succeeded in connecting with the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Bryan hit his ceiling? No way punk. (RE-SPECT-WALK) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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