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3 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

still on a Raw 1994/95 bend at the moment. 

No idea why they didn't go with Nash/Backlund and Bret/Owen, or Nash/Owen and Bret/Backlund.

Having Nash go up against Bret killed him straight out the gate.

The one issue with that is after having Nash squash Backlund at MSG how would he be viewed as a threat at the Rumble? Running Owen against him definitely would have fit though. 

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19 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

As an adult, I find the booking of that final survivors match fascinating.

I'm pretty sure by that point they knew they were moving back to Hogan and were going to use Slaughter for the transition.

So they couldn't have Sarge in the main event unless he won it, which they simply didn't do on ppv back then. But he had to look strong going into the Rumble. So he winds up down 4-1, and beats three of the four guys before falling in booking that really feels more like scrappy underdog Babyface stuff.

Then they gave to juggle the egos and positions of Hogan and Warrior. They need Warrior strong to sell as many tickets as they can for the next few months, but they also need to make sure everyone knows Hulk is still Hulk.

And I'm pretty sure that's why they never did it again. Just a logistical nightmare when they used to actually book long-term. 

Instead of Dibiase and Tito advancing they could have done Slaughter and Bret instead.  Then do some kind of schmoz in the middle of the match leading to Hogan, Warrior and Slaughter all getting DQed setting up both Warrior/Slaughter at the Rumble and Hogan/Slaughter at Mania.  Then give Bret the big underdog babyface push, have him down 3-1 and go over setting up his big singles push in a few months.

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9 hours ago, MavsFan77 said:

The one issue with that is after having Nash squash Backlund at MSG how would he be viewed as a threat at the Rumble? Running Owen against him definitely would have fit though. 

I suppose you could either:

a) not run the MSG title switch, and have Diesel go over at the Rumble instead

b) point out that it was a fluke 7 second win, and that the chicken-wing was still a legit threat

c) keep Owen in Backlund's corner, and the ongoing threat of another screwjob, or even Shawn interference. This could even be countered by Bret being in Diesel's corner.

For completeness though, I'd have preferred Owen vs Diesel, Bret costing Owen the title, running afoul of Diesel for getting involved in his business (essentially the Bulldog IYH match 9 months early), and then set up the blowoff to the Owen feud, maybe finish the Backlund program as it did, and then go to Bret/Nash in the summer instead of Mabel?

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2 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

I suppose you could either:

a) not run the MSG title switch, and have Diesel go over at the Rumble instead

b) point out that it was a fluke 7 second win, and that the chicken-wing was still a legit threat

c) keep Owen in Backlund's corner, and the ongoing threat of another screwjob, or even Shawn interference. This could even be countered by Bret being in Diesel's corner.

For completeness though, I'd have preferred Owen vs Diesel, Bret costing Owen the title, running afoul of Diesel for getting involved in his business (essentially the Bulldog IYH match 9 months early), and then set up the blowoff to the Owen feud, maybe finish the Backlund program as it did, and then go to Bret/Nash in the summer instead of Mabel?

I definitely like your idea for the Owen feud, and I’m overwhelmingly in favor of your proposed Bret/Nash feud replacing the god awful Mabel feud. Hell I would’ve preferred they turn either Hall or Nash bad, and run that instead of a Nash/Mabel too. The Mabel feud especially coming right after the feud with Sid definitely sunk Nash. 

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The 1997 Between the Sheets mentioning a Ricky Steamboat/WWF rumor around the time that Del Wilkes was going into the WWF makes me think of an alternate universe where they figure out that Wilkes was lying about his tricep before giving him the run and they end up having a short Bret Hart/Ricky Steamboat program for part of 1997 instead of Hart/Patriot.

Leaving aside the obvious health/ability issues with Steamboat 3 years post-injury... the idea of Steamboat/Hart matches in Canada where Steamboat is the de facto heel would be weird too

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Putting this here because I honestly never knew about it. I've seen WM3 a bunch of times, but I never realized that they had an angle to set up Beefcake's turn like this:

 

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^ It's weird that they inserted Adrian into that match, Dino Bravo was right there and was the third Dream Team member prior to the Beefcake turn.

(*It should be noted that in no way do I advocate Dino Bravo matches.)

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A friend and I are trying to figure this out since he wasn’t identified and we can’t find any info on the internet. Who was the guy who sang the National Anthem at Survivor Series 1993?

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9 hours ago, Matt D said:

Putting this here because I honestly never knew about it. I've seen WM3 a bunch of times, but I never realized that they had an angle to set up Beefcake's turn like this:

 

I will say, that's a big mistake they made about WMIII.  I didn't watch every WWF show and I missed that one and maybe the follow-up, and it literally took WWF magazine months later to explain to me why Beefcake and Adonis hated each other.  And by the time I knew, Adonis was gone.  But yeah, its obvious the crowd is just going along with whatever Beefcake is doing since he kinda got turned on earlier.

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I just saw Escape From New York for the first time, and here is my question: What is the best example of a Snake Plissken vs. Ox Baker match?

Scrappy, undersized guy, despised by the audience, trying to tackle a humongous monster, who is also a completely beloved hometown face(?), where by the end of the match, the guy who started out (ostensibly) as the heel, wins not only the match, but also wins over the live crowd, purely through his heroic dispatching of someone bigger than him.

Does this match exist outside of a John Carpenter movie? 

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18 hours ago, The Idiot King said:

Scrappy, undersized guy, despised by the audience, trying to tackle a humongous monster, who is also a completely beloved hometown face(?), where by the end of the match, the guy who started out (ostensibly) as the heel, wins not only the match, but also wins over the live crowd, purely through his heroic dispatching of someone bigger than him.

Does this match exist outside of a John Carpenter movie? 

 

Like... you have seen Rocky IV, right?

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Rocky IV is the answer but 1-2-3 Kid vs. Razor Ramon almost fits it too.  The crowd was absolutely snark, didn't give a shit about Waltman and was cheering Razor the whole way.  He even gets a "Razor" chant during it. Then Kid got the upset and they all entirely flipped and lost their minds.

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I would propose the whole early Mikey Whipwreck run to fit this scenario, especially that first E(astern)CW TV title vs. The Pitbull. I liked Mikey. 

I looked and I found it:

 Mind the odd volume swings.

- RAF

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On 7/31/2020 at 8:17 PM, username said:

 

Like... you have seen Rocky IV, right?

Riiiiiiight. That's maybe the better reference point then. A Rocky IV situation, but in pro wrestling.

On 7/31/2020 at 10:24 PM, RolandTHTG said:

Lio Rush vs Balor last year.

That's a great example! It's definitely an undersized heel who wins the crowd over against a face, though if I was being nitpicky, I'd say Lio would have had to win to fully qualify.

On 8/1/2020 at 3:15 PM, sydneybrown said:

Rocky IV is the answer but 1-2-3 Kid vs. Razor Ramon almost fits it too.  The crowd was absolutely snark, didn't give a shit about Waltman and was cheering Razor the whole way.  He even gets a "Razor" chant during it. Then Kid got the upset and they all entirely flipped and lost their minds.

1-2-3 Kid vs. Razor is really close! I think I had retroactively made Razor a more traditional heel in that match, but he was right at the cusp of being a major face and the crowd was definitely behind him. It's also a huge testament to Scott Hall that he could put Waltman over like that and not have it slow him down one bit on his ride to the (near) top.

Mikey too. I think the only missing ingredient in both those examples is that a) Neither Mikey nor Waltman were really hated, per se, just sort of blandly dismissed and expected to lose and b) The people they were up against weren't really beloved by the crowd, exactly. I feel like maybe when Mikey beat Sandman for the Heavyweight belt? But even then, he was a pretty well established underdog face at that point.

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Hi guys! After 18 years or so of lurking I finally got around to actually sign up. I was watching some '89 Prime Time on the Network and prior to Survivor Series'89 they were promoting a special with singles matches between the opposing teams. One of the promoted matches was to be Ultimate Warrior vs Tully Blanchard! Did this match ever actually take place? The special in question isn't on the Network, but that would pretty much be the most intriquing match they could possibly think up!

However, knowing WWF at the time (well, knowing WWE, period) the match would probably be sub 1-minute squash. But think, if you will, how good the match could actually be, if they gave it some 8 minutes and Warrior was willing to sell and bump for Tully like he did for Rude some 2-3 months prior? I'm talking taking a slingshot suplex for a close two followed by a comeback with the usual spots for the victory.

I guess the actual old school question is whether the match ever actually happened, since Tully got fired prior to the actual PPV, or was it replaced by something else? The what if (that would belong to another thread) is that how awesome could that particular match have been, if Warrior was willing and Tully was able?

I've been wondering about this one for a few weeks now, thanks for the info, if you have any!

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it happened. they get like 6 minutes.

 

 

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Wow! Thank you very much!

Yeah, aside from the no-selling of the sling-shot suplex not happening, this was about as good as it could have been! And as a side-note, the opening match must have been the biggest pinfall victory for Tito since like '86! The only other worthwhile stuff he got was the aforementioned SurSer'90 dq victory and the susequent pinfall of the Warlord in the finals! Good for him, I guess?

Edited by Shartnado
Watched the link

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2 hours ago, Shartnado said:

Hi guys! After 18 years or so of lurking I finally got around to actually sign up.

WELCOME!  Great username, by the way.

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Much appreciated! I'm known for very tasteful sense of humor (one of the very reasons I only lurked for some 18 odd years).

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Tully was fired after this match too.  Even though other matches aired later, this was Tully's last WWF match and aside from one shots, the end of his mainstream career.  The SNME where Heenan fires the Busters had been taped the day before.  No way was Warrior giving him much of anything.

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Before I fall asleep this passed through my mind. Watching that Kevin Nash stuff earlier today he said that Greg Gagne invented the concept of the NWO, including NWO Japan. Is that true in any way, shape or form? 

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Considering its generally accepted that Bischoff got the idea from watching or hearing about  NJPW, seems unlikely. 

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7 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Before I fall asleep this passed through my mind. Watching that Kevin Nash stuff earlier today he said that Greg Gagne invented the concept of the NWO, including NWO Japan. Is that true in any way, shape or form? 

Wasn't that just Kevin tearing the piss out of Greg Gagne taking credit for so many things that he had nothing to do with or was on the periphery? Gagne has the same reputation as Mike Graham when it comes to giving himself more importance within historical wrestling events and movements than he actually deserves (usually little to none) and I always saw Kevin's comment as being sarcastic ala "Didn't you know Greg Gagne invented the nWo?" (CUE KEVIN NASH ROLLING HIS EYES AND LAUGHING GIF).

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