Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Recommended Posts

Disco Inferno might work here based on where some of the posts are going, but I always thought he was good on his own.

 

I honestly think CM Punk might qualify as all of his really high end stuff is against guys who get that level of work out of, or with, other people, specifically Joe and Cena.

 

But I'm not really sure if fans can even ask this question, though. It's really hard to tell who's responsible for what in a wrestling match, especially since the whole concept is built around cooperation. It's like trying to decide who's pulling more of the load while watching two people on a seesaw; yeah, sometimes it will be obvious who is doing more work, but if things are going smoothly only the people involved could ever really know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone in this thread knows the definition of "carry". 

 

There is a vast difference between a guy that can barely lace his boots being made to look like a believable and competant grappler, and a talented main event star having a good match with a less-talented star. 

 

Really, shouldn't this thread be about guys that got the farthest with the least amount of talent, with the fewest blatantly awful matches?  Shouldn't this be where we talk about the Lugers, Hogans, Warriors, Road Warriors, Goldbergs, etc...

 

Instead this thread seems to be about guys who didn't always give the same effort with different opponents. 

 

 

I'm thinking Kane is a good answer here. He often has solid-good matches with great wrestlers but whenever he is in there with someone on or below his level... it's a mess.

 

Kane... is a guy that they throw out there with the younger guys specifically because he can carry them. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Vince either he missed the boat on himself and he is just a natural at being in good matches or guys like Austin, HHH and Flair were able to carry him to some good stuff. Of course old retired Bret couldn't but that was more to do with the poor booking of that match.

 

I'll also throw out AJ Styles, it seems to me that any match I enjoy of his is when he's in there with someone as good or better than him. I can't think of anytime were I was like man that match was great and it was mostly due to Styles. Of course I haven't watched TNA regularly in some time so maybe things have changed but from what I have seen it seems like the dude has just gotten worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While I do think it's possible for one wrestler to carry another, it's too often used as a way to say "well I hate that wrestler, but I loved that match...so his opponent carried him to it".  Bringing up Triple H in this topic just reeks of someone who hates him for his backstage behavior (or supposed backstage behavior) but who likes a lot of matches he's been in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Give me an example of Kane carrying a young wrestler.

 

Well, in early '09, Kane was teaming regularly w/ Mike Knox against the Colons in Tag Title Matches.  This was right after Mania.  Before that he was alternatively working Michaels & Mysterio w/ Knox as his partner, while also challenging Punk for the IC title. 

 

In other words, the WWE paired him off with two young champions, to show them how to work WWE-style title bouts.  Oh, and he was being given the task of showing Knox how to work big-man style, while also giving him the rub. 

 

That took like five seconds to find w/ Google. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone in this thread knows the definition of "carry".  There is a vast difference between a guy that can barely lace his boots being made to look like a believable and competant grappler, and a talented main event star having a good match with a less-talented star.  Really, shouldn't this thread be about guys that got the farthest with the least amount of talent, with the fewest blatantly awful matches?  Shouldn't this be where we talk about the Lugers, Hogans, Warriors, Road Warriors, Goldbergs, etc... Instead this thread seems to be about guys who didn't always give the same effort with different opponents.

I think it should be about the guys who most likely to wrestle to the level of their opponents and have classic matches with all-time greats and huge stinkers with the worst of the worst.Maybe the answer is someone who has a few signature spots on offense that will excite a crowd but who needs an opponent who can sell to make an extended offensive sequence look interesting, combined with the ability to take well-executed offense from his opponent the way it is supposed to, but an inability to make bad offense look less shitty.
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

That took like five seconds to find w/ Google. 

 

I think what you saw as them putting Kane with people to "show them how to work" was actually them having nothing else for Kane at the time. I don't believe there was anything else behind it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought of Mark Mero as Johnny B Badd in WCW. Not a very good worker on his own but against guys like Page, Pillman, Austin, etc he had excellent matches.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Being carryable does not mean you're incapable of carrying.

 

To me, what this means is that when you're in the ring with the better guy, that the match is a top match for the better guy, despite the better guy doing a clear majority of the work.

 

Guys who are carryable usually don't dog it in the ring except on very rare occasions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what you saw as them putting Kane with people to "show them how to work" was actually them having nothing else for Kane at the time. I don't believe there was anything else behind it.

 

 

Nah.... They usually throw the young guys to Kane I think so they can learn WWE style through him. MVP first feud was Kane. There are others I'm forgetting but he is a gatekeeper for the young guys to move up or down the card.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem (apart from not being in the ring ourselves to know exactly what is going on) is that there are a few different ways to define 'carry'. I imagine when someone talks about Kane carrying young talent, they mean that he is, in a sense, leading them through the match, thereby helping them to understand how to work the style asked of them. Generally, when I think of a wrestler carrying someone, I think of a guy being so good that he/she can take a wrestler lacking talent (or one whom, for some other reason, isn't capable of holding up his end in a match, a la Bulldog at Summerslam 92) and work a good/great match with them.

 

Most carriable wrestler is probably someone who wasn't in a deal of great matches, because when someone is, you have to start to think that maybe, just maybe, they have something to do with it. Nash seems like he might be a good answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I think of carryable wrestlers the first guy who comes to mind for me is RVD.  He isn't bad, but when he is in the ring with the wrong guys he seems to go from spot to spot with absolutely no transitions.  When he gets matched up with the right guys, who can reign in his tendency to stand around between spots, he can be a part of some really good matches.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, they have nothing else to do with Kane. All of the young guys work Kofi Kingston or Sin Cara as well.. Is it because Kofi and Sin Cara are "teaching" them or is it because they are midcard guys with nothing going on? Come on now.. Kane wasn't "teaching" Rollins or Ambrose anything. WWE had faith in them and more often than not they were working with Daniel Bryan as well. Kane was an afterthought in those matches.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add Orton to the list, at least for the last few years. Unless he's in there with a talent like Christian, Bryan or Punk, it's a total snooze fest. He doesn't seem to put much effort into it against lesser opponents.

 

 

First post btw, hi.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought about Orton, but he's had periods where he's the company's best worker.  I think his problem is just not giving a shit.

 

 

Yeah, we know the talent it's there but he doesn't try at all if not motivated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add Orton to the list, at least for the last few years. Unless he's in there with a talent like Christian, Bryan or Punk, it's a total snooze fest. He doesn't seem to put much effort into it against lesser opponents.

 

 

No way. Orton may have motivational issues from time to time, but he's a damn good wrestler when he wants to be. He definitely carried his weight in the Christian and Bryan matches, as well as the underrated Cena series in 09. He's also really good working with lower-ranked guys. He's had good tv matches with Cody, Ted Jr, Kofi, Ziggler, Swagger, and Otunga, who are all varying degrees of less-talented than Orton.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...