Is Sting a Hall of Fame Wrestler?

[MGFanJay]

As a wrestler...it's tough. He was a part of some classic matches with Flair, but had long, LONG PERIODS OF TIME where he was just a **-*** match guy, a sub-par promo, and the lead face of WCW regardless of what title he held. He was demoted to Hogan Buddy status when Hogan came in and never really regained the top spot outside of the '97/'98 run that wasn't exactly highlighted by great matches. His character's best promos then were cut a by a kid over a PA system, and he was stuck in late '80s YEAH IT'S SHOWTIME FOLKS promo mode until like 2008 when the lightbulb turned on and he became a great promo.

 

His TNA run to me only adds to his HOF credibility because he didn't just half-ass it. Sure, during the one shot days, he did, but when he got on the roster, he gave a fuck and tried hard. He did way more than anyone would've expected and meshed really well doing hardcore and/or daring stuff like dives off the penalty box and taking bumps into tacks and shit that you'd never think in a million years he'd do. The initial MEM run helped him a lot and forced him to try something new - and he succeeded greatly at it. While he hasn't had many great matches since about 2010 on a regular basis, he did have a damn good match with Hulk Hogan and while a lot of the credit goes to Flair for bumping around for everyone, it still overdelivered and Sting's performance in it was fine. Sting-Roode was always a good match when given time, and they had a ***+ match on Impact right after a PPV one just a couple of years ago. As an act overall, I think Sting's HOF-worthy just because you think of him instantly in any incarnation and he was able to change with the times.

 

That did lead to him being a time capsule of the early '90s for way too long, but he was always able to change it up a bit. When the dyed blonde/rat tail look was passe, he just let his hair grow out and nixed the dye. It's a little change, but showed that unlike Hogan, he was willing to change with the times a bit. In TNA, he did a lot of experimenting that definitely made him feel like a fresher act. He went darker on the promos with the DECEPTION one with RVD that had more legs to it than they gave it. It's a shame TNA didn't catch on like wildfire at any point, because I think his run there will only be appreciated by the masses when it's available via the WWE Network after the company's demise and/or a best of set by WWE with some of that in there.

[Hagan]

What were WCW ratings like before the Nitro-era? Wasn't WCW Saturday Night a pretty well-rated program even if the live shows and PPVs didn't draw well, which, as noted, as as much to do with marketing and perception that it was a minor league promotion. Didn't FlairSting Clash 1 do a really high rating?

 

Dylan's number are hard to refute, but as others have noted, everyone seemed to know who Sting was, even before Hogan came around. And I'd consider him a far better performer than Luger, and, not that it really matters all that much, but a far more reputable guy and a much, much better babyface worker.

[Brian Fowler]

I wish he had gotten a decent run with the belt in '98, coming off Starrcade.  I think that could have been a period that he would have possibly drawn well, and maybe then put himself in a bit stronger position.

 

Like I said in the other thread, I'd personally vote for him, but he isn't some glaring oversight that must be fixed right this second of the WON HOF loses all credibility.

[Hagan]

If WON Newsletter awards are any sort of barometer: He won Best Babyface in '92, was involved in two five-star matches (the Wargames, but he was definitely the biggest babyface in those matches), got MOTY with the Flair match in '88 and got Most Charismatic in 1998 and 1992.

 

I mean, I get that we can't compare Sting to shitty guys who are in the HOF, but it does seem odd that guy who are more borderline are in and Stinger is not. It just seems that guys got in with shorter, hotter runs but he gets penalized for hanging around for a 20 something year career.

 

I think I made this same point discussing the RnR Express against the Midnights a few months back, actually.

[NintendoLogic]

I'd like to see Sting inducted into the Hall of Pain.

[Ace]

I would be interested to hear the guys you think Sting would be comparable to or better than as a candidate. 

 

Randy Orton.

[jaedmc]

 And I'd consider him a far better performer than Luger

I don't think the gulf between them is that big. But I'm rediscovering pre-WWF Luger and loving it.

[DylanWaco]

On Luger I would note that his matches with Flair were better than Sting's, and that as a babyface during that period he was much hotter than Sting ever was.  I actually think Luger was a better overall performer than Sting, though I will grant it's arguable.  

[Brian Fowler]

I don't personally think Luger has anything as good as Sting's Vader matches.

 

But, to be fair, he also didn't have a series with Vader during the big man's peak.

[TheVileOne]

Trying to think of anyone below him on the card who really benefited from a program with Sting other than Mick Foley.

 

Vampiro bombed. Bagwell as his protege never really went anywhere. Regal program got cut quick due to the NWO angle. Vader maybe, but think his series with Cactus were more substantial in getting him over.

 

His name is Big Van Vader.  Without Sting, there is no Vader.  

 

To me, this stuff about numbers isn't substantial enough.  Ric Flair said Bret Hart was never a draw too.  

 

Sting's had a lot of ups and downs in his career, but he's built a body of work that is Hall of Fame-worthy.

 

And as far as matches go, I don't really care so much about star ratings anymore.  I've recently found a lot of buried gems Sting was involved in from around the mid-90's that are a lot of fun considering they are on throwaway shows like Power Hour, Worldwide, etc.  To me, not every match has to be a definitive five star classic to be enjoyable or memorable.  

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Luger/Yoko weren't as good, but tremendously underrated.

 

Steamboat and PIllman matches in 89 also good.

[Hagan]

Did Luger do anything worthwhile after he beat Hogan for the belt? I have trouble coming up with a decent match or angle or anything, except for that wacky "here lies Lex Luger" funeral bit.

 

Sting had the fun title match with Page, off the top of my head, and, the Vampiro shit aside (and we should ignore all Russo-era WCW), he was still putting on pretty good stuff. I mean, as noted, that TNA match with Hogan was like the most cosplay Star Wars match in years.  

 

And I dig the Package, and obviously they parallel in a lot of ways, but Sting, aside from Flair, did great stuff with Muta, Vader, Foley and, in one of the all-time great feuds, the Dangerous Alliance.  I mean, Sting literally fought every style of wrestler there was and could keep up and go, at the very least. I think his wrestling is a bit underrated. I mean, not that Muta wasn't going to be what he is, but him and Stinger tearing down the house helped him cement a rep here in the States and definitely boosted him in Japan, I would imagine.

 

Luger's WWF run was a failure and that has to count as a negative mark, and, with the exception of the Hogan switch, I don't think his WCW run was that good, except when he was fucking around Sting and pretending he wasn't a heel.

 

Maybe Sting was always the "other guy" in there wth the guy that drew, or the guy that was the better worker but it seems to be that Sting is in a weird spot where there are guys who were bigger draws than him, but shittier workers who are in the HOF, and there are guys who are better workers than him, but much shittier draws who have made it. That's why I'd put him in.  

[Web Conn]

I think alot of what keeps Sting out of these type of disscussions is the booking of him in WCW. Which is too bad because you could tell (until the very end) that he was super dedicated and took prode in being the WCW Guy and really believed in the company. He put on great matches and had great feuds. Some of the Starrcade play might fall on him, but most of that is all on WCW. Its Booking 101 that the face of your company pins the number one bad guy cleanly in a match with over a years build. I say he deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame.

[DylanWaco]

Luger's "failure" in the WWF was more successful than Sting's run on top of WCW.  Think about that.  Luger's run as an opponent for Flair produced far more high end matches than Sting's run against Flair and was better at the box office. I agree that Luger has nothing like the Vader series, but I don't think Sting has an in ring run as good as Luger in 89.  As for post-97 Lex, I recently watched some dying days WCW stuff and I thought it was shocking how good of a heel he was.  I also liked his feud with Bret Hart and thought they had good matches.  Again I'm not arguing for Lex - I wouldn't vote for him - I just don't see how he's a worse candidate than Sting.  

 

I would ask people to think about who Sting would be comparable to.  Someone mentioned Randy Orton earlier and though I hate to say that I don't think it's far off.  But I would also like to see who these HoFers are that people feel Sting is strong than.  In particular I'd be interested to see if there is anyone from the first class people would rate Sting over.  

[Hagan]

No one in the first class, certainly. I'm almost tempted to throw in Ted Dibiase, but that would make me a moron and I've never seen any Mid-South (I know, I know) but it seems like his WWF run at the top was relatively short, though, aside from Savage, he was the best heel.

 

I also just realized that Curt Henning isn't the HOF. Not that I think he should be, but he seems like he'd be a trendy pick.

 

My Luger comment was in regards to the idea that his WWF-run was a failure by WWF-standards. The companies were apples and oranges in relation to where they were in public awareness, marketing, promotion etc.

 

Jesus, going over the list of people in. Not even wanting to sidetrack this thread, but Jericho being in seems early.

 

I like Orton more than most around here, but I'd put Sting over him. Again, I'm basing a lot around the fact that Sting is one of my favorite babyface workers ever. I'm probably giving him wayyyy too much credit for that and he wasn't working anything other than the standard babyface Superman role (which Cena does light years better anyway.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Luger from Fall Brawl 99 to Russo/Bischoff takeover is massively underrated.

 

Has some awesome matches with most of the roster. That tag match with Flair against Sting and Vamp that ends up on the beach is glorious.

[TheVileOne]

Luger's "failure" in the WWF was more successful than Sting's run on top of WCW.  Think about that.  Luger's run as an opponent for Flair produced far more high end matches than Sting's run against Flair and was better at the box office. I agree that Luger has nothing like the Vader series, but I don't think Sting has an in ring run as good as Luger in 89.  As for post-97 Lex, I recently watched some dying days WCW stuff and I thought it was shocking how good of a heel he was.  I also liked his feud with Bret Hart and thought they had good matches.  Again I'm not arguing for Lex - I wouldn't vote for him - I just don't see how he's a worse candidate than Sting.  

 

I would ask people to think about who Sting would be comparable to.  Someone mentioned Randy Orton earlier and though I hate to say that I don't think it's far off.  But I would also like to see who these HoFers are that people feel Sting is strong than.  In particular I'd be interested to see if there is anyone from the first class people would rate Sting over.  

 

Abdullah the Butcher.

[T.Rex-n-effeckx]

Sting is a way better candidate than Tanahashi.

I think there are ways to make a Sting-Kensuke comparison.
 

[Jenalysis]

In what areas is Sting inferior to Gordy?  Gordy wasn't the draw Sting was, and Sting was a better worker IMO (it's close, but I give it to Sting), and Sting had more longevity because he didn't mess himself up with drugs.

 

As for Sting/Muta, does Savage/Steamboat get discounted as a draw because it was a midcard match at WMIII?

 

I'd also argue Sting was never competently booked when he was on top- even by WCW standards.

 

 

As a worker, I'd compare Sting to Cena, as a draw, I'd compare him to Bret.

[BurningBeard]

This thread is depressing

[DylanWaco]

In what areas is Sting inferior to Gordy?  Gordy wasn't the draw Sting was, and Sting was a better worker IMO (it's close, but I give it to Sting), and Sting had more longevity because he didn't mess himself up with drugs.

 

As for Sting/Muta, does Savage/Steamboat get discounted as a draw because it was a midcard match at WMIII?

 

I'd also argue Sting was never competently booked when he was on top- even by WCW standards.

 

 

As a worker, I'd compare Sting to Cena, as a draw, I'd compare him to Bret.

 

Gordy is in as part of a tag team.  I'm not convinced Sting is a better candidate than Gordy, and Sting over Gordy as a worker is almost certainly a minority position, but it should really be Sting v. Freebirds as a comparison.  

 

Where is the evidence that Sting/Muta was a draw?  I certainly loved Muta as a kid, but even if I grant that that feud was a money maker as part of a "package" that package didn't do anything near what the package Steamboat/Savage was a part of did so it's an odd comparison to make regardless.  

 

The Bret comparison as a draw is something I have considered exploring in the past.  I suspect the evidence would show Bret to have more positives than Sting over the long haul.  Maybe that will be one of my next projects.  

 

To Tom's point I think Tanahashi and Sting are actually similar in a lot of ways, the big difference (as with Bret really) is that Tanahashi is considered a great worker.  I don't like Tanahashi at all but I have to acknowledge that.  Having said that I do think Sting and Tanahashi's drawing records are fairly similar, with the caveat that New Japan has definitely started to turn things around in the last two years with Tanahashi and Okada as co-aces.  As I said when Tanahashi was up last year, I think he's a guy with HoF potential, and not really an HoFer yet.  I used to make the Sting/Sasaki comparison all the time, but Sasaki seems to have been a bigger part of far more meaningful shows than Sting was.  

[TheVileOne]

Does it really matter if Sting/Muta really drew?  And is there any sufficient evidence to say whether it drew or not?  Sting was clearly always one of WCW's most popular stars, which might not mean much, but he's put together a long and impressive body of work.  He put the time and work in.  His career is distinct because he spent the entirety of his prime years in WCW and never jumped ship to WWE.  Also he developed a strong brand and character.  

 

To say he never drew money or didn't sell merchandise I think is bull.  I remember the Sting masks being pretty big deal during the NWO era.  Despite that it was an overall failure in the long run, are we really going to play revisionist history and say Starrcade 1997 didn't draw?  That whole thing was based around Sting being the conquering hero coming back for retribution and to topple Hogan.  

[Ace]

So that means Sting drew for ONE pay-per-view.

[Ace]

Sting is a way better candidate than Tanahashi.

I think there are ways to make a Sting-Kensuke comparison.

 

 

Tanahashi is one of, if not the best wrestler in the world. Sting was never even the best wrestler in his company.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Tanahashi is not even close to being the best worker in the world. He's nit even the best worker in his own promotion. Plus, being a draw for New Japan in a lot of ways is a huge so what... yeah, they have started to turn things around so give him some credit there but WCW from '96-'98 was massively popular.. more so than NJPW is now. Sting was the top face..

Also, umm.. is Kurt Angle really in? Why? He was a good worker in the early 2000s but that's it and he was never the Guy in WWE.