Hannibal season 2

[J.T.]

Yeah, I am stunned by how much Fuller is getting away with visually.  You'd expect something like this on premium cable; not on a normal network.

[Eivion]

That scene with Mason and the dogs was a close runner up with the man who tore off his own skin to run away for the most sickening visuals on the show this season. As far as how they get away with this stuff, I assume it helps that a good deal of it is darkened out when it gets as bad as last night's episode.

[Spritenaut 32]

I have no idea where they go with this next week.  Though it looks certain that Hannibal is going to clue Jack in - keeping Jack's reputation as ineffectual bumbler intact.  In retrospect, I feel dumb for watching the season premiere and assuming that Jack would somehow morph into some sort of super agent, put the pieces together, and go bring the Chesapeake Ripper in.  Having the Ripper out himself (if that's what happens) seems fitting somehow.

 

I can't decide if Hannibal is doing this (assuming that's what he does) to further bring Will to his side, or if his relationship with Will is so strong that he realizes it could expose him, but he's going along anyway to maintain the relationship. Hannibal allowing himsel to be caught as the only way to maintian some sort of connection with Will would make a certain sense.   It'd be the logical conclusion to events thus far.  It seems like it should be clear even to Hannibal that contunied contact with Will is a dumb idea, since Will is obviously smart and intuitive enough to make the connection and bring Hannibal down.  The smart thing to do would be to stay the hell away from Will Graham.

 

On the other hand, Hannibal is an egomaniac who has "mentored" killers before, so maybe he assumes Will can be "seduced" into murder the same way his other proteges were.

 

Dunno.  Really curious to find out how this all shakes out. 

[Reed]

I think the best thing was how Mason didn't even seem that bothered about being disfigured and maimed. He was still the same old Mason, and just rolling with things.

 

Also, I think the mask he had may have been creepier than his gored, cut up face.

 

Man, I hope we see the Vergers in season 3 again.

[Spritenaut 32]

There are inept plans and then there's... whatever the hell that was. 

[Jamie Virtue]

That was quite the episode. Not sure what else to say about it. Hannibal outsmarted everybody, and I feel like I got played the fool for ever doubting that idea. So I suppose mission accomplished?

[Travis Sheldon]

What a gut wrenching episode, pun intended.

I'm going to have to think about this one for a bit.

Will post later so as not to spoil anything for anyone.

[J.T.]

What the fuck did I see last night?

[TheVileOne]

I'm confused...was Bedelia his accomplice the whole time?

[Reed]

I'm confused...was Bedelia his accomplice the whole time?

 

Nah. She was legit freaked out by him, we saw that in scenes where they were alone together. And he did intend to kill her at the start of the season.

 

Per Fuller, she has other intentions beyond merely romantically attached. She could be studying him (he is fascinating after all) or maybe have her own plan to bring him down.

[Reed]

That was quite the episode. Not sure what else to say about it. Hannibal outsmarted everybody, and I feel like I got played the fool for ever doubting that idea. So I suppose mission accomplished?

 

Granted, he came out on top, but I'd still say he got sloppy. He didn't even bother checking whether Will or Jack were even dead...that will come back to haunt him. Bringing Bedelia along for the ride might end up being a mistake too.

 

And he's also going to be one of the most wanted men in the world soon. Unless the FBI has apparently gotten so inept they can't distribute a picture. 

 

I wouldn't say things are 100% great for him.

[Spritenaut 32]

I wondered the same thing (whether she was complicit with Hannibal from the beginning), but, dramatically anyway, that makes no sense.  If she was Hannibal's accomplice/lover, so what?  She did very little to advance the plot.  Nothing she ever did or said reaally maneuevered Jack or Will one way or the other, and she didn't appear to have any information to feed Hannibal.  Will did quite good on his own feeding Hannibal info, though ultimately, that probably doesn't affect the outcome one way or the other.  Even if Hannibal had been more taken in by Will, that night probably plays out largely the same.  Hannibal's cautious enough not be completely caught off gaurd by Jack and Will.

 

Rewatched the finale again this morning (missed parts of the middle when my wife had a problem with a cell phone and I got distracted figuring that out).  Great ep.  As said above, I feel dumb for assuming Jack and Will would outsmart Hannibal. 

 

Wonder where they go from here?  Seems a little implausible Jack and Will keep standing in the FBI after running a rougue operation to entrap a guy that culminated in at least one death and possibly a couple more (guessing Jack and Will survive, but the other person (don't want to spoil it if someone hasn't watrched the ep yet).doesn't.   Oh, and the killer is still at large and apparently fled the country.

 

Re: the death this ep

Not al all sorry to see Dhavernas go because I felt like she was the weakest elemen of the show. Actress didn't really make an impression on me and the character wasn't contributing much. There didn't seem to be anywhere for the character to go once Hannibal was revealed. It was hard for me to imagine her and Will getting together after all this.

That said, they could use some decent female characters. Keeping Miriam Lass and Du Maurier in play would be a huge upgrade. Crisis was canceled, so Gillian Anderson is probably more available.

[Reed]

Miriam Lass, Margot and Bedelia are such great characters. I'm totally cool with Miriam being the Clarice expy if Fuller can't get the rights.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Alana isn't dead.  At least not yet, anyway.  Will/Jack/Abigail/Alana are all hanging in the balance, with Fuller saying (not sure if this counts as spoiler, as he doesn't name names)

not everyone who was in peril at the end lives, so at least 1 person dies.  I'm guessing Abigail is def. dead, Will def. lives, and leaning towards both Jack & Alana living.

[Spritenaut 32]

Interview with Hugh Dancy, with some talk about next season.  Some spoilers, obviously.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/23/hugh-dancy-on-hannibal-s-brilliantly-batsh-t-finale-and-the-future-of-will-graham.html

 

He confirms he will return next year. Hints Fishburne might not, if a couple other projects pan out for him. Says he expects next season to be very different - Hannibal on the run, with Will chasing him.

 

Hannibal appeared to be on his way to Europe in the last scene.  I kinda wonder if that doesn't foreshadow some version of the "Hannibal" novel.  In the novel, Lecter lived in Europe under an assumed name and eventually was the target of a Mason Verger revenge scheme.  Kinda hard to think Fuller established the Vergers without planning to do something more with them going forward.
 

[J.H.]

I'd genuinely surprised if they killed Jack crawford already. I ca nsee them writing him off the show without killing him

 

James

[Reed]

Fuller said in an interview season 3 is basically going to be a mix of Hannibal and Hannibal Rising, although Hannibal's back story is going to be different than in the novel. I think the Japanese aunt will be a character, as well.

 

It doesn't make much sense to wait several years to use the Vergers again, so I'm guessing that storyline gets moved up. Mason and Will are both going to be after Hannibal.

[EVA]

I saw X-MEN last night, so I'm just now getting around to seeing this...And now my Saturday night is ruined because my soul has been destroyed.

Easily the most emotionally devastating episode of TV since "Ozymandias."

I think it's safe to say that, given the ratings and their continued inability to get the rights to the Clarice books, Fuller has completely given up any pretense that this is a "prequel" and is just totally off the rails, making his own Hannibal Lecter story. And I can NOT fucking wait until next...whenever when we get to see what's next.

When this show is at the top of it's game, there is nothing better on TV right now.

[Reed]

Yeah, I don't think they're getting the rights to Clarice and Silence of the Lambs. Fuller's mentioned having discussions with them and the answer is always NO! NO! NO!. It seems they want to get their Clarice TV show (which has been rumoured for years) off the ground and aren't willing to budge.

 

He told an interesting story: Assuming the Clarice TV show does get made, MGM won't even be able to use Hannibal's name or even reference him. So Fuller was like, let us have Clarice and you can reference Hannibal all you want. But they wouldn't hear of it.

 

I'm not even sure how you can do a Clarice Starling TV show without being allowed to mention Hannibal, which is why I suspect the TV show is doomed even if they do ever make it.   

[TheVileOne]

 

I'm confused...was Bedelia his accomplice the whole time?

 

Nah. She was legit freaked out by him, we saw that in scenes where they were alone together. And he did intend to kill her at the start of the season.

 

Per Fuller, she has other intentions beyond merely romantically attached. She could be studying him (he is fascinating after all) or maybe have her own plan to bring him down.

 

 

I just got the sense from her look on the plane that she was somehow complicit in all of this and aware of what he did.  She didn't look like a hostage to me.

[Spritenaut 32]

Yeah, I don't think they're getting the rights to Clarice and Silence of the Lambs. Fuller's mentioned having discussions with them and the answer is always NO! NO! NO!. It seems they want to get their Clarice TV show (which has been rumoured for years) off the ground and aren't willing to budge.

 

He told an interesting story: Assuming the Clarice TV show does get made, MGM won't even be able to use Hannibal's name or even reference him. So Fuller was like, let us have Clarice and you can reference Hannibal all you want. But they wouldn't hear of it.

 

I'm not even sure how you can do a Clarice Starling TV show without being allowed to mention Hannibal, which is why I suspect the TV show is doomed even if they do ever make it.   

 

I don't really see why they need the license.  If they do do Silence of the Lambs, it's going to be a greatly altered Silence due to all the changes in what's gone before.  Odds are they alter the storyline to the extent that using Clarice Starling will have a negligible impact.  Given the changes that Fuller's already made to the Hannibal timeline, I don't really see what "Clarice Starling" gets them that "Miriam Lass" wouldn't.

 

For that matter, if Fuller does a reasonably faithful treatment of Silence of the Lambs, Will is offstage entirely, and Hannibal is largely a supporting player.  I kinda doubt that Fuller would sideline Mads and Dancy that much, so I expect that whatever version of Silence he did do would be greatly changed anyways.  Which brings me back to wondering what Clarice Starling really adds to the show.

 

I kinda hope they don't really "do" Red Dragon or "Silence" or, if they do, they alter the story so much it might as well be original.  If they're going to do Silence, just substitute Will for Clarice.  The show mostly works for me when they're exploring Will and Hannibal's odd relationship.  I thought the early part of this season drug when Will was incarcerated and the interaction was limited.

[Travis Sheldon]

How did Hannibal smelling Freddie on Will affect his plans? Would he have snuffed Jack and left with Will and Abigail for Europe with no whiff of Freddie? It's obvious Jack was making his play no matter what, I guess Abigail and Will's fate was changed with that fatal sniff. Unless Abigail was always going to be the sacrificial lamb. 

When Will tells Hannibal he was supposed to leave, did he think Hannibal would snuff Jack and he would come trailing along after him later or was Will just playing H there?

That last 10 minutes really tore my wife up. Kudos to the Hannibal team for getting us so invested emotionally.

[Spritenaut 32]

Had to rewatch the finale again this morning.  Holy crap!  How'd I miss the "sniffing Freddie Lounds" bit.  Throws a completely different spin on things.  So Hannibal was planning to run away with Will and Abby?  Will might have gone for that.

 

Wish they had made Will's "They know" phone call to Hannibal a little less ambiguous,  A lot of people seem to think that, in that moment, he was Hannibal's man.  I took it as him trying to save Jack's life after he realized Jack would be going in alone without the FBI backup.  Warning Hannibal and causing him to run was the best way to try to save Jack from Hannibal.

 

A lot of odd speculation online.  Read a theory today that Gillian Anderson's character could actually be Misha (Hannibal's dead sister).  That seems like a reach, even for Fuller. 

[Newb82]

Considering Misha's death is the catalyst for what Hannibal becomes, there's a 0.0000% chance that is the case.

[EVA]

How did Hannibal smelling Freddie on Will affect his plans? Would he have snuffed Jack and left with Will and Abigail for Europe with no whiff of Freddie? It's obvious Jack was making his play no matter what, I guess Abigail and Will's fate was changed with that fatal sniff. Unless Abigail was always going to be the sacrificial lamb.

When Will tells Hannibal he was supposed to leave, did he think Hannibal would snuff Jack and he would come trailing along after him later or was Will just playing H there?

That last 10 minutes really tore my wife up. Kudos to the Hannibal team for getting us so invested emotionally.

Hannibal's original plan was to present Abigail as a surprise gift to Will before they all left together to go be a fucked up psycho family. He intended to seal the deal on Will's undying allegiance by bringing the shattered teacup back together.

After he smelled Freddie on Will, he spent basically their whole last supper together trying to give Will a chance to come clean about it, but Will didn't, which is when he decided to go scorched earth on the whole thing, to hurt Will in the worst way he could think of.

I think the "You were supposed to leave" was in reference to Will's phone call alerting him that the FBI was onto everything. He expected Hannibal to drop everything and run, just as Hannibal had once expected Garrett Jacob Hobbs to run. But psychos can't run when they have unfinished business. To that end, I guess Will was successful: He had effectively put Hannibal in a mindset where the confrontation with Jack was something he had to do.