Raw 2-24-14

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

Cesaro needs to put The Flying Hammerlock into his arsenal, maybe even go make a pilgrimage to Detroit to learn it from George Steele.

- RAF

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

 

And some of the Hulkster hate going on makes me sad. Hogan's the man. It's not like he's gonna be wrestling, he couldn't pass the physical.

 

 

 

Yeah - Hogan's not "taking someone's spot" and you know.. even if he did he's HULK FUCKING HOGAN. We can complain about this person should have won the title in 1990 or this person was held back in '95 but at the end of the day it's still Hulk Hogan.

 

The Batista hate makes more sense to me because it is directly tied to the Daniel Bryan issue...  even though Batista isn't the one who is booking this shit. Maybe it's not even Batista hate, maybe it's just chanting and shitting on him as a way to shit on creative as a whole? I don't know. If he would have come back as the heel that everyone liked, the big douchebag character, maybe this would have worked out better.

 

All I can say is I have not seen anyone, anywhere who wants to watch Batista/Orton so if they don't change it, it's gonna get shit on pretty hard.

[JohnnyJ]

In Hogan's defense, you try spending 2 and a half minutes talking about the WWE using only their buzzwords.

[cool arrow]

In Hogan's defense, you try spending 2 and a half minutes talking about the WWE using only their buzzwords.

 

"Sports entertainment, brother!  Superstars and divas!  WWE Universe, brother!"

 

That's all I got.

[Fallacy!]

Watching the Steve Austin DVD last night, realized that I completely forgot how long it took from KOTR '96 to Mania 15 for Austin to get his title shot. That's over 18 months. Yet 6 months into the Bryan push, it's at this standard of whinge?

Austin winning KOTR 96 in the context of him jobbing to Savio Vega the month before is insane. No real build up. I don't believe the revisionist history of "Well, HHH was supposed to win it, but Curtain Call", which happened at least 2 months before KOTR. They could have easily given it to Vader to build him up for Shawn but took a gamble that paid off.

 

Between then and Survivor Series, he does absolutely nothing of note. You could argue that the HHH Mania match is his Bret match (either Survivor Series or Mania, take your pick for context).

 

Had two shots at the title in 1997, spends the end of the year in meaningless midcard feuds with Owen and the NOD, despite being the hottest act on the card by far.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the logic were that if they held off on pulling the trigger with Austin for 18 months, they can afford to hold off on Bryan a little longer.

 

Starting Daniel Bryan's "chase" at Summerslam doesn't work for me because I would say the 18 second loss to Sheamus at Wrestlemania 28 and the crowd reaction the ensuing night on RAW is Bryan's "Austin 316 moment" if he ever had one. 

 

So with that said, we're going on about two years since Daniel Bryan has began developing into the hottest act in the company and he still hasn't had his big payoff moment.

[Greggulator]

 

Watching the Steve Austin DVD last night, realized that I completely forgot how long it took from KOTR '96 to Mania 15 for Austin to get his title shot. That's over 18 months. Yet 6 months into the Bryan push, it's at this standard of whinge?

Austin winning KOTR 96 in the context of him jobbing to Savio Vega the month before is insane. No real build up. I don't believe the revisionist history of "Well, HHH was supposed to win it, but Curtain Call", which happened at least 2 months before KOTR. They could have easily given it to Vader to build him up for Shawn but took a gamble that paid off.

 

Between then and Survivor Series, he does absolutely nothing of note. You could argue that the HHH Mania match is his Bret match (either Survivor Series or Mania, take your pick for context).

 

Had two shots at the title in 1997, spends the end of the year in meaningless midcard feuds with Owen and the NOD, despite being the hottest act on the card by far.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the logic were that if they held off on pulling the trigger with Austin for 18 months, they can afford to hold off on Bryan a little longer.

 

Starting Daniel Bryan's "chase" at Summerslam doesn't work for me because I would say the 18 second loss to Sheamus at Wrestlemania 28 and the crowd reaction the ensuing night on RAW is Bryan's "Austin 316 moment" if he ever had one. 

 

So with that said, we're going on about two years since Daniel Bryan has began developing into the hottest act in the company and he still hasn't had his big payoff moment.

 

 

Bryan went through a few character changes along the way, though. He was an obnoxious heel when he lost to Sheamus.  (And had the number two belt when the feud started.) That went into the AJ Love Quadrangle immediately after, since Bryan blamed AJ for his 18-second loss. That also involved a bunch of Punk/Bryan matches for the number one belt. Bryan was the heel in that whole deal.

 

Then that became AJ forcing him and Kane into anger management issues and Team Hell No. Then Team Hell No had their really long run until The Shield took the titles from them.

Then that became The Weak Link thing. That's when he really blew up.

 

One great thing about Bryan -- He's gotten so many dudes over since he won the Smackdown title. AJ's the star of the Divas division largely because of him. Kane had another stretch of relevance because of him. The Shield got over because they had an insane amount of ridiculous matches (and wins) over Bryan And Co. The Wyatt Family are over now, too, because of their story with him.  Heck, Randy Orton became important again because he screwed over Bryan. Orton was awful until he turned heel at SummerSlam. 

 

And also, at the same time, he's also managed to get himself more over with each of those angles/feuds, too.

[Matt D]

Then that became The Weak Link thing. That's when he really blew up.

 

You think Bob Holly resents Bryan for making the Big Shot gimmick work so well?

[FluffSnackwell]

Following his first title win, Austin beat Kane and Undertaker clean when they were both still in full-on undead monster mode over that spring and summer. That's totally different than the almost half dozen Luger/Flair fuck finishes Bryan has endured in choking at winning back the title so far.

[APO]

He lost the belt to Kane at KOTR '98, though.

[Brian Fowler]

And won it back the next day.

 

Then was screwed out of it in September, and won it back at Mania, and held it until Summerslam, and went out hurt that fall.  He spent nearly all the time either having the belt, or being completely screwed by Vince to keep him away from it.

[Spontaneous]

It also helped that WWE knew how to book then. It needs to be said again and again. A lot of people were pessimistic to begin this because they felt there would be no payoff and it continues to feel like there may not be. They really haven't devoted a great length of time to hyping a feud/story besides Rock-Cena the last few years.

[Matt D]

It also helped that WWE knew how to book then. It needs to be said again and again. A lot of people were pessimistic to begin this because they felt there would be no payoff and it continues to feel like there may not be. They really haven't devoted a great length of time to hyping a feud/story besides Rock-Cena the last few years.

 

Rock-Cena didn't exactly have a lot of bullet points either. They just happened to be spaced out.

[Spontaneous]

True. Even then, from 2011 to 2013 it seemed to have some semblance of planning, despite ruining other feuds. I'm sure WWE would love to claim they planned Bryan from WM28 to WM30 or SS'14 this way but it is clear they stumbled into it.

[SirSmUgly]

I'm watching RAW now, and it's hilarious how many people have been going on about "HOGAN STUMBLED OVER ALL HIS LINES BLIBBEDY BLABBITY BOO BLAH BLAH BLAH!" when that didn't happen at all. He said Universe instead of network and recovered without a pause.

 

And some of the Hulkster hate going on makes me sad. Hogan's the man. It's not like he's gonna be wrestling, he couldn't pass the physical.

 

(And that's almost a good thing if the story Piper told on Austin's show about the WWE wanting to do a Piper/ Hogan match at Mania was true.)

 

Post-WCW, I stopped being cynical about Hogan. Hogan in '02-'03 had the very best "old superstar who has lost his fastball, but can still beat you if you're not careful" veteran run ever. I even enjoyed one month of Hulk Hogan, Undisputed Champion and the random Hogan/Flair match for the title on RAW. It wasn't good necessarily, but it was amazing to watch just for what it was. 

 

I'm glad he's back. I want to see more of him on TV and less of him on Twitter being depressingly weird or creepy. Leave the memories alone, Hulk. 

[LooseCannon]

Have they ever explicitly acknowledged that Roman Reigns is Samoan? Because I re-watched the match and Bray Wyatt was giving him head butts.

[FluffSnackwell]

If we're being honest almost every 'Mania so far this decade has had the primary belt defended as either a prop or an outright afterthought.

XXVII= At this point the belt was some kind of experimental megapush drug being wasted on that disgrace that is The Miz. Also Miz and the belt were really afterthoughts in the seeds being planted for the next two WM's Rock/Cena main events. Then you have to admit it's pretty damning by the friggin' Miz was arbitrarily given a six-month run as champ that there is very little rhyme or reason as to whom the WWE gives extended title reign pushes to. That twerp was the next star they tried to shove down everybody's throats. For shame.

XXVIII= Punk/Jericho was an afterthought compared to the streak being defended and Rock/Cena.

XXIX= The belt was held hostage as a prop to make sure everybody understood what a big deal Rock/Cena II was.

And now Orton has had the title since Summerslam (when it wasn't held up for that month)but at this point it's basically a crutch to remind everybody that he's still supposed to be a big deal. And now he's about to job it to Batista who's basically getting it as a signing bonus/perk for returning to the company.

So it's not like the main belt has been treated like anything special at the actual 'Mania event for going on four years now.

[cwoy2j]

Watching the Steve Austin DVD last night, realized that I completely forgot how long it took from KOTR '96 to Mania 15 for Austin to get his title shot. That's over 18 months. Yet 6 months into the Bryan push, it's at this standard of whinge?

Austin winning KOTR 96 in the context of him jobbing to Savio Vega the month before is insane. No real build up. I don't believe the revisionist history of "Well, HHH was supposed to win it, but Curtain Call", which happened at least 2 months before KOTR. They could have easily given it to Vader to build him up for Shawn but took a gamble that paid off.

 

Between then and Survivor Series, he does absolutely nothing of note. You could argue that the HHH Mania match is his Bret match (either Survivor Series or Mania, take your pick for context).

 

Had two shots at the title in 1997, spends the end of the year in meaningless midcard feuds with Owen and the NOD, despite being the hottest act on the card by far.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the logic were that if they held off on pulling the trigger with Austin for 18 months, they can afford to hold off on Bryan a little longer.

 

He was feuding over the IC belt and tag belts which actually meant something back then. It wasn't like he was getting screwed at every turn or just twiddling his thumbs. He also had his neck broken and could barely work more than a 5 minute match for a while.

[Ace]

Nobody on the internet ever has faith in anything

 

The blankly staring audience at the end of shows don't seem to either. Who does that leave, exactly?

[Curt McGirt]

Bray can withstand a Samoan headbutt because he's crazy. That seems to be the psychology, anyway.

[RonL21]

Have they ever explicitly acknowledged that Roman Reigns is Samoan? Because I re-watched the match and Bray Wyatt was giving him head butts.

 

I noticed that as well.  Maybe someone will talk to him about that.  Never seen a Polynesian affected by a headbutt to that degree.  I say Polynesian cause both Haku and Snuka were from Tonga and Fiji, right?  The WWE website says that wrestling is in his blood and he answered the family calling after his football career.

[bink_winkleman]

 

I'm watching RAW now, and it's hilarious how many people have been going on about "HOGAN STUMBLED OVER ALL HIS LINES BLIBBEDY BLABBITY BOO BLAH BLAH BLAH!" when that didn't happen at all. He said Universe instead of network and recovered without a pause.

 

And some of the Hulkster hate going on makes me sad. Hogan's the man. It's not like he's gonna be wrestling, he couldn't pass the physical.

 

(And that's almost a good thing if the story Piper told on Austin's show about the WWE wanting to do a Piper/ Hogan match at Mania was true.)

 

Post-WCW, I stopped being cynical about Hogan. Hogan in '02-'03 had the very best "old superstar who has lost his fastball, but can still beat you if you're not careful" veteran run ever. I even enjoyed one month of Hulk Hogan, Undisputed Champion and the random Hogan/Flair match for the title on RAW. It wasn't good necessarily, but it was amazing to watch just for what it was.

 

I agree with this.  I grew up hating Hogan in WWF and never liked the dude in WCW, but that '02-'03 run was really enjoyable and gave me my first begrudging appreciation of the Hulkster. 

[goc]

The Austin/Daniel Bryan comparison doesn't work because they didn't spend months building a storyline around Austin chasing the belt only to keep pulling the rug out from under him and the fans. And then just forget about that storyline and not actually pay it off with a title win. People can keep saying "slow burn" all they want, but by the time they'd moved to Big Show vs. Orton as far as WWE was concerned the "Daniel Bryan chases the title" storyline was over.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Remember when Snuka returned and fucking TAKER sold a headbutt.

 

Reigns is a bitch.

[RonL21]

Remember when Snuka returned and fucking TAKER sold a headbutt.

 

Reigns is a bitch.

 

And I don't even think he was Biker Taker yet, so Dead Man Taker was selling

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

It was 2008 or so, so it was undead never jobs to anyone STREAK Undertaker.