Elimination Chamber

[Kropotkin's Beard]

 

 

For folks complaining about the ending of last night's match:

 

1) You seriously think Daniel Bryan winning the belt -- and concluding his epic struggle -- at Elimination Chamber is the way to go?

 

Well, no. He should have won it months ago.

 

 

When, exactly? And then who chases Bryan after that? And where does that get you in terms of building to WrestleMania?

 

I misspoke. What I should have said is he probably should not have lost it to Orton seconds after he won it, and then get brushed aside. Or he should have won it at HIAC when Michaels turned on him. As for what 

 

Look, don't get me wrong, I enjoy Bryan chasing the title, but then I've not really gotten to see him be chased with it in the WWE so...I don't fantasy book, but who would I have chase him? Cesaro. I'm mean if I'm going to book things then lets just totally selfish. A several month long Bryan-Cesaro program would be awesome to me. Where does it get me for Wrestlemania? I don't know. I don't know where last nights finish has got us for Wrestlemania yet either. If it ends up Kane vs Bryan then sorry, that's unsatisfying. And I think it's not this totally unreasonable thing to have a little cynicism about the WWE's booking.

 

My issue is more one of a lack of confidence in the WWE to actually pull the trigger and then give him a chance to run with the ball (ugh, shitty mixed metaphors) , rather than cutting him off at the knees. It's great you are optimistic and cheery about everything, and I don't criticise you for it, but at the same time you can surely understand why others who don't share your outlook would be a bit less keen to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt.

[Overly Critical Man]

Does anybody think Daniel Bryan would be as over as he is right now had he kept the title after SummerSlam? And if he did keep the title after SummerSlam, then what? I'm sure he would've lost it by now and sent back down to the mid-card. But since they've been "holding him back" and he hasn't won the title, he's more over than he's ever been, and just keeps getting more and more over. No way there'd be a "Yes Movement" or 1 hour long stretches of RAW centered around DB had he just kept the title after SummerSlam.

On the other hand...would Batista be this hated if Bryan had his title run?

[jaedmc]

I love Randy Orton. He's been booked into a tough position as the guy no one wants to see, but him playing with the crowd and being a crazy asshole is so fun to watch. I love him acknowledging chants and working against them. Crowd chanting "Poh-see" at him and him shaking his head in agreement was my favorite part of the Chamber.

[piranesi]

 

Does anybody think Daniel Bryan would be as over as he is right now had he kept the title after SummerSlam? And if he did keep the title after SummerSlam, then what? I'm sure he would've lost it by now and sent back down to the mid-card. But since they've been "holding him back" and he hasn't won the title, he's more over than he's ever been, and just keeps getting more and more over. No way there'd be a "Yes Movement" or 1 hour long stretches of RAW centered around DB had he just kept the title after SummerSlam.

 

Or if he won it a few weeks later.

 

 

 

I don't see why not.   Bryan as champion seems really simple.  Throw a bunch of corporate monsters at him.  Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, but he always ultimately comes out on top.

 

Sounds familiar, perhaps?

 

He could have gone a couple more months with Corporate Orton chasing him and failing.  Then bring in bigger scarier corporate Batista for Mania.  Then Biggggggger Scarrrrrrier corporate Lesnar.

 

That's most of a year right there.  Time enough for Reigns to be ready to take it.  And no John Cena anywhere!

[cool arrow]

And folks bitching about HIAC - the very first one ever ended with outside interference.

 

But not overbooking, which is the point.

[Patrick B.]

Not sure how much of me truly believes the bleak outlook and how much of me just has the mindset of "This is what I think, WWE.  Go ahead, SWERVE THE SMARK."

[LooseCannon]

For folks complaining about the ending of last night's match:

 

1) You seriously think Daniel Bryan winning the belt -- and concluding his epic struggle -- at Elimination Chamber is the way to go?

Well, no. He should have won it months ago.

I think the way to go is to have him finally overcome the machine and win the title at Wrestlemania, with Orton eating the pin. Then Batista turns heel with the backing of the Authority at the next PPV, or even as soon the Raw after Wrestlemania, to take back the title, setting up a summer of HHH trying to screw Bryan and keep him away from the title.

If they don't insert him into the Wrestlemania match, I'd like to see Bryan/Cena vs NAO vs the Wyatts vs the Shield in an elimination tag match for the tag titles. The Total Diva Powers united for a tag title run, then explode to set up next year's Wrestlemania main event.

So Bryan wins the title and then loses it a day later and we're basically back at square one? Even the most optimistic fan would call bullshit on that.

I think the fan reaction would be tremendous and fun to watch.

[Greggulator]

 

 

 

For folks complaining about the ending of last night's match:

 

1) You seriously think Daniel Bryan winning the belt -- and concluding his epic struggle -- at Elimination Chamber is the way to go?

 

Well, no. He should have won it months ago.

 

 

When, exactly? And then who chases Bryan after that? And where does that get you in terms of building to WrestleMania?

 

I misspoke. What I should have said is he probably should not have lost it to Orton seconds after he won it, and then get brushed aside. Or he should have won it at HIAC when Michaels turned on him. As for what 

 

Look, don't get me wrong, I enjoy Bryan chasing the title, but then I've not really gotten to see him be chased with it in the WWE so...I don't fantasy book, but who would I have chase him? Cesaro. I'm mean if I'm going to book things then lets just totally selfish. A several month long Bryan-Cesaro program would be awesome to me. Where does it get me for Wrestlemania? I don't know. I don't know where last nights finish has got us for Wrestlemania yet either. If it ends up Kane vs Bryan then sorry, that's unsatisfying. And I think it's not this totally unreasonable thing to have a little cynicism about the WWE's booking.

 

My issue is more one of a lack of confidence in the WWE to actually pull the trigger and then give him a chance to run with the ball (ugh, shitty mixed metaphors) , rather than cutting him off at the knees. It's great you are optimistic and cheery about everything, and I don't criticise you for it, but at the same time you can surely understand why others who don't share your outlook would be a bit less keen to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt.

 

Okay, to take it point-by-point:

1) Bryan didn't get brushed aside. Not one bit.

 

2) Well, if he did win that match, there are no real heels in the narrative there to chase him. It would likely go back to Orton trying to get back at Bryan with The Authority in his path. Instead, it went a different route. It began the Wyatt Family vs. Punk/Bryan deal. And those few months of Bryan dealing with those dudes served so many wonderful purposes. The Wyatt Family got over as world beaters. Bryan ended up getting the reaction of the decade when he broke free from Bray's grasp. Both Bryan and The Family got more over because of it.

Shield/Wyatts last night doesn't happen without Daniel Bryan vs. The Wyatts first. Their first interaction came when both The Shield and The Wyatts wanted Bryan and Punk.

3) I think Cesasro's the best guy in the company right now. But after SummerSlam, he wasn't ready for that spot in terms of the story structure. He was 1/2 of a tag team that was feuding with Los Matadores because their midget mascot shoved a plastic horn up the butt of his Tea Party manager. He's ready now courtesy of his win over Orton and classic with Cena. He finished fourth last night, which shows where he stands in the pecking order right now.

4) In summation: The best plot they had going forward was for Bryan to chase and not win the belt due to heel machinations. Orton won the same way against Big Show and Cena. No smark really cares about those dudes anymore (hence the Wyatts chant last night) but since Bryan's the one we're emotionally attached to, he's the one who gets the whole "getting buried" meme. This is despite him being the center of almost every episode of Raw since the spring.

5) No one knows what's happening at WrestleMania. So people complaining about that issue already are really premature.

6) People should be critical of the product. I get that. I'm critical of a lot of stuff -- I'm not a fan of the New Age Outlaws; I always thought Batista sucked; I wish Henry had something going on; I hope they get to Dustin vs. Cody, etc. So people can be critical.

But for real, folks parse every word of HHH to bloat on about how he's buried someone, Daniel Bryan's buried, etc. People hate on the product just to hate on things. Wrestling's a weird world where everyone who cares to this extent (myself included) thinks we can do better than what's presented to us.  And a lot of the IWC also believe a lot of the rumblings/reports of stuff that gets out there by a bunch of NEWZ~ sites that are essentially spyware installation centers.

So my thinking is this: I think they've put together a really wonderful storyline. I think people who don't like the storyline tend to believe whatever backstage rumors get filtered down that no one really knows are true. I'm just going to agree to disagree with everyone who thinks Bryan's been poorly booked or what have you.

We're in a really great time for wrestling. There is seriously a ridiculous amount of talent right now. But people are going to hate because HHH or whatever. I'm going to enjoy the ride.

[Kropotkin's Beard]

I want to point out that I've never said Bryan is being buried. Never. I am somewhat...worried is too strong a word, but part of me still expects us to end up with Kane vs Bryan at Wrestlemania, which will mean the whole plot going back to Orton's cashing in of Money In The Back after Bryan won the title will have been a waste. If it ends with Bryan having his Wrestlemania moment then I'm going to agree with it being an excellent story, but to be frank, I'm not judging the quality of the entire story until it has played out. The ending still has the potential to have made the chase pointless. And that would be annoying.

 

And yes, the WWE is great right now from an in-ring perspective. I'm happy watching the show regardless of how the stories go, so don't confuse frustration/cynicism with the story as not enjoying things.

[Greggulator]

I'll be bummed out if he doesn't win the belt by SummerSlam. Then I will rip the story arc mercilessly. (Injuries not withstanding.)

[LooseCannon]

5) No one knows what's happening at WrestleMania. So people complaining about that issue already are really premature.

There's a perception that Wrestlemania has been set far in advance, just like Rock/Cena. There are easily believable rumors that Batista has a contract clause concerning winning at Wrestlemania. If one were to make an educated guess at what will happen at Wrestlemania based on how the company has behaved in the past, it might be premature to rule out the possibility of Daniel Bryan winning the title, but it would be foolish to consider that the likeliest outcome.

It's not going ruin my fandom if Daniel Bryan doesn't get the belt by Wrestlemania or even if he loses to HHH at Mania. I have alternative ideas. I've floated the idea of Cena/Bryan challenging for the tag titles, either in a multi-team match or transitioning the belts to the Wyatts. I'd like to see them try to get CM Punk come back for one more match, with a promise that while he won't main event the show, he can have up to a whole hour to wrestle Daniel Bryan in an opportunity for him to have the greatest Wrestlemania match of all time. I'd build that match around Daniel Bryan reacting to a loss with a throwaway comment about not being a quitter like Punk and having Punk show up and attack him the following week to cost him a title match on Raw (and the chance to enter Wrestlemania as champion against Batista).

[Ace]

 

For folks complaining about the ending of last night's match:

1) You seriously think Daniel Bryan winning the belt -- and concluding his epic struggle -- at Elimination Chamber is the way to go?

2) You seriously think Bryan losing cleanly to a RKO is the way to go, too? Because that essentially cuts his legs out and ends the story. They didn't do that and haven't done that. How many clean losses has he taken since SummerSlam? The only one I can think of is against Bray, which only made that dude's career and sets him up as a threat to Bryan once he does win the belt.

Dude's gotta get shmozzed until he gets through all of the obstacles. That's how the story works. Bryan had a distraction from Bray, who saw a chance to manipulate Daniel to do his own bidding by convincing him "The Machine" wouldn't let him win/beating him into submission. That only made Bryan more popular.

How many fucking more times are you going to post some variation of this in this thread. I think you're on like, four now.

 

 

Which is the same amount of times they've done the Orton/Bryan fuck finish.

[piranesi]

I can tell you what I felt for a moment last night after the finish, when we saw basically the same outcome as in how many t.v. and PPV finishes now was "There's a good chance that ten years from now, this is what the "Bryan run" was.  A guy who could never do it.  The snapshot we'll all remember will be two things, crowds doing the Yes chant in unison...and Daniel Bryan laying on the ground defeated."

 

It's not a bad story.  Not every story is one of triumph.  I kind of like the idea as I'm typing it. 

 

But it's mostly not the ideal legacy for your favorite wrestler...mostly.

 

 

I hadn't felt that way about any of the other screwjob finishes because there always seemed like plenty of time to change course, and I'm sure there still is.  But last night was the first time I had, like, this flash forward where that was pretty much the Daniel Bryan character...the failed hero.

[cool arrow]

 

 

For folks complaining about the ending of last night's match:

1) You seriously think Daniel Bryan winning the belt -- and concluding his epic struggle -- at Elimination Chamber is the way to go?

2) You seriously think Bryan losing cleanly to a RKO is the way to go, too? Because that essentially cuts his legs out and ends the story. They didn't do that and haven't done that. How many clean losses has he taken since SummerSlam? The only one I can think of is against Bray, which only made that dude's career and sets him up as a threat to Bryan once he does win the belt.

Dude's gotta get shmozzed until he gets through all of the obstacles. That's how the story works. Bryan had a distraction from Bray, who saw a chance to manipulate Daniel to do his own bidding by convincing him "The Machine" wouldn't let him win/beating him into submission. That only made Bryan more popular.

How many fucking more times are you going to post some variation of this in this thread. I think you're on like, four now.

 

 

Which is the same amount of times they've done the Orton/Bryan fuck finish.

 

 

What a co-inky-dink.

[nate]

Calling it: Bryan wins the title at 'Mania, CM Punk - unseen on camera since walking out - hops the guardrail as a legit shoot moment, hugs Bryan in a recreation of the Eddie/STEVIE RICHARDS moment from Mania XX. The next day the net is abuzz because fans just don't know if it was real, kayfabe ... goddamn, we have a right to know!

[Dog]

Calling it: Bryan wins the title at 'Mania, CM Punk - unseen on camera since walking out - hops the guardrail as a legit shoot moment, hugs Bryan in a recreation of the Eddie/STEVIE RICHARDS moment from Mania XX. The next day the net is abuzz because fans just don't know if it was real, kayfabe ... goddamn, we have a right to know!

 

I don't want Punk (or anyone else) biting off Dragon's moment.

[RIPPA]

 

And folks bitching about HIAC - the very first one ever ended with outside interference.

 

But not overbooking, which is the point.

 

 

I don't know - one guy's dead brother appearing, ripping the cage door off, lighting a whole lotta things on fire, and then tombstoning said brother seems no more overbooked than the guest ref superkicking one of the wrestlers.

EDIT - OH!!!! the first one also had Michaels attacking a cameraman and getting out of the cage to take the table bump. But I guess no place for long memories, etc.. etc..

[LooseCannon]

And folks bitching about HIAC - the very first one ever ended with outside interference.

 

But not overbooking, which is the point.

 

I don't know - one guy's dead brother appearing, ripping the cage door off, lighting a whole lotta things on fire, and then tombstoning said brother seems no more overbooked than the guest ref superkicking one of the wrestlers.

If both had happened in the same match, then that would have been overbooking.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Calling it: Bryan wins the title at 'Mania, CM Punk - unseen on camera since walking out - hops the guardrail as a legit shoot moment, hugs Bryan in a recreation of the Eddie/STEVIE RICHARDS moment from Mania XX. The next day the net is abuzz because fans just don't know if it was real, kayfabe ... goddamn, we have a right to know!

I don't want Punk (or anyone else) biting off Dragon's moment.

Haha like Punk isn't doing that already?

[jaedmc]

Haha like Punk isn't doing that already?

 

He failed, so no.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

They chant CM Punk every week when Bryan is out there, its clearly a premeditated attempt to siphon heat off.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

 

 

What's the difference between Cena and Bryan getting screwed? 

 

May I suggest the crowd chanting 'Thank you Wyatts!'?

 

That was a pretty small fraction chanting.

 

If you say so, it's not like they were drowned out by everyone else was it? Didn't hear any 'Thank you Kane' chants, so my point stands.

 

If we thought Bryan was winning at Wrestlemania it would all be fine, we'll probably live with a HHH match. But a Kane match is just a step too far, and I like Kane. I worry about a Bryan/Punk vs HHH/Kane match too.

 

I defended TNA not giving the ball to James Storm. I was wrong; there was a window and they missed it. There's a window here too.

[Overly Critical Man]

They chant CM Punk every week when Bryan is out there, its clearly a premeditated attempt to siphon heat off.

The CM Punk chants have less endurance than Batista.

[LooseCannon]

If we thought Bryan was winning at Wrestlemania it would all be fine, we'll probably live with a HHH match. But a Kane match is just a step too far, and I like Kane. I worry about a Bryan/Punk vs HHH/Kane match too.

Maybe they can have Daniel Bryan lose to HHH via shenanigans and have Hulk Hogan use his power as host of Wrestlemania to insert Bryan into the main event later that night. Then, HHH can dispute Bryan winning the title and try to hold the title in abeyance and Vince can declare a title tournament to sort things out.

[Ultimo Necro]

I want to believe that last night, somewhere on the road between Minneapolis and Green Bay, at a rest stop or a gas station, Sheamus and Cesaro ran into each other, had a stare down and went straight back into their uppercut war.