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I just can’t see anything ever becoming of Steve Williams 98 run no matter how Brawl for All goes. Having watched a load of 88-89 NWA and his completely heat-less 92 WCW run recently, and having seen my fair share of AJPW in the past, I’ve gotta say Steve Williams is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. The awesome power, ability to drop people on their heads in Japan, and athletic background which JR tells me about ad nauseum do not excuse the clumsiness, terrible promos, lack of charisma, miscues and bad timing. 

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I know JR loves to talk up the idea of Dr. Death as a big one-off opponent for Austin, but the timing just doesn't work. Doc's big years in All Japan were fading badly in the second half of the 1990's. He was red hot in 92 and 93, actually had a really good 1994, but it starts to slip after that. By 98 he'd very clearly hit the wall. It was too late. He never got back on that level, he was just another guy on the card by 1998.

Williams also would have 100% required a mouthpiece in WWF, and that was at a time when managers were really as ice cold an idea as they've ever been. It's a bad spot.

The timing on Austin/Williams was just never going to work. It wasn't there to be done in a real world timeline.

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6 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Given how similar their career trajectories were in the 90’s I have always found it fascinating that it was “X Pac Heat” that caught on as a term, and not Jarrett Heat. I don’t think I’ve ever met or had a discussion with a fan that would say that Pac was a bigger “get this dude off my TV now” guy in this era than Double J. 

The big difference between X-Pac Heat and Jarrett Heat (and why before X-Pac, it was called "Bossman Heat") ultimately tied to this difference:

With Big Bossman in 1998-99, it was obvious "you're overpushing this guy, he's just NOT a main eventer, get this dude off my TV right now".

With X-Pac, he was in the lowercard- but even then, fans cared just enough about X-Pac to want him off their TV ASAP.

With Jarrett...it was just nothing. He didn't get Jarrett Heat to become a thing because people didn't like him as a heel. They didn't hate him enough to get him off their TV. They just...didn't care,  and the fact the fans didn't care was an even more brutal indictment out of Jarrett than even X-Pac Heat. Jarrett's a pure example of how the opposite of love is not hate, but apathy- and the fans were completely apathetic to Jarrett. Jarrett Heat for how he was hated would be similar to claiming it needed to be Rob Conway Heat for "you could hear a pin drop in the arena the second this loser headed out there".

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Was it Jericho who cut that scathing promo on him circa 2001 in the same ilk of Rock eviscerating Billy Gunn about how stale his character was - the greasy hair, the bandana, the DX stuff months after it was still a thing.

I feel like that was around the time it kicked off.

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Edge gave him a promo kicking in the X Factor days. "On the one hand, I have a chance to become Intercontinental Champion, on the other hand nobody will ever see it, because everyone will change the channel as soon as your music hits. That song is brutal, did you pay somebody to sing it?"

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42 minutes ago, AxB said:

Edge gave him a promo kicking in the X Factor days. "On the one hand, I have a chance to become Intercontinental Champion, on the other hand nobody will ever see it, because everyone will change the channel as soon as your music hits. That song is brutal, did you pay somebody to sing it?"

Was this the Billy Bitchcakes thing?

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On 7/11/2020 at 12:06 PM, BurningBeard said:

I just can’t see anything ever becoming of Steve Williams 98 run no matter how Brawl for All goes. Having watched a load of 88-89 NWA and his completely heat-less 92 WCW run recently, and having seen my fair share of AJPW in the past, I’ve gotta say Steve Williams is one of the most overrated wrestlers ever. The awesome power, ability to drop people on their heads in Japan, and athletic background which JR tells me about ad nauseum do not excuse the clumsiness, terrible promos, lack of charisma, miscues and bad timing. 

Doc makes me think of a few things... the 108 stitches in his eye, headbutting Windham in the crotch by accidentally, and the meanest tag team I ever saw with the MVC. 

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Dr Death had IT to me as a youngun. Just something about when he walked out for a match upped the intensity similar to Luger at the time. Just so cool.

Growing up though and looking up all of his stuff, he was a GOAT big man in Mid-South. But the cigarettes caught up with him early in hindsight. I doubt his knees got any younger. Not to long into WCW he was already slowing down. 

I respect him for getting in the ring for 3 shoots though. Nobody will admit it but a ton of those big tough redneck rasslers wouldn’t have done that at that age, and would have made up some other excuse.
 

 

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If Rick Rude didn't have to retire in '94 , Would he had eventually worked against Hulk. I know Hogan and Flair was scared to work with him but coming in to WCW that's easily a PPV level program for Hogan. Do you think Rude would've went back to WWF because Flair and Hogan not willing to work him? I'm sure Savage would've been willing to work Rude when he came in.

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We would have gotten the Rude vs Vader program, but honestly I dont see him lasting through the post-Hogan, pre-nWo WCW. 

When did his contract expire? Because in all honesty, I am more excited about him potentially heading to WWF in 1995 and working programs with Bret Hart, Razor Ramon, the newly-turned Shawn Michaels, all of which would be incredibly fresh matchups and would also deliver in the ring. I could see a program between Rude and the "scrawny pip-squeak" 123 Kid being a natural matchup to book, and could easily envision him bumping around like a madman for The Undertaker. If Vince wouldn't hold the 1990 Warrior program not drawing well against him, I could see him being a much better King of the Ring and Diesel opponent for Summerslam instead of Mabel, though I also might be overstating how Vince would look at Rick Rude in 1995. 

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I don't think "how Vince would look at Rick Rude in 1995" would have been a problem, considering that British Bulldog's closest time to sniff being a main eventer was in 1995, and Bulldog had the similar "midcarder in his last run, WCW tried him as a main eventer, and he went back to WWF" thing.

The mixture of "Rude vs. Michaels wrote itself", plus "He was a bonafide top star in WCW", multiplied by "WWF was losing stars to WCW left and right at the time, and Rick Rude would be one of the first true 'we got one BACK' moments in the war" would likely mean Rude would be a big deal.

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21 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Why didn't Flair want to work with him? Thought he'd steal his spot? 

I remember hearing a weird story about Rude following Flair around an arena all day before a card trying to goad him into a confrontation until Flair finally just left the building. I’m not sure if there was heat over anything in particular or if it was Rude acting erratically like when he pulled a gun on Bischoff. 

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6 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

I could see him being a much better King of the Ring and Diesel opponent for Summerslam instead of Mabel

as if this doesn't describe every single professional wrestler in 1995.

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What is Dustin Rhodes career trajectory if he doesn’t get cut by WCW in 94? I can picture him in the DDP role against the nwo but not sure how he fits into the landscape before then 

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I could see Dustin endIng up in a Ray Traylor sort of role, getting recruited then kicked out of the NWO and feuding with Vincent and Norton on Saturday Night. Then if he sticks around long enough he becomes one of Russo’s “underrated guy” projects and spends some time in the main event. The real question would be if Vince sees any use for him in 2001. He’d be crazy not to, but Vince never saw him as more than a good hand anyway, and he wouldn’t have Goldust. 
 
Meanwhile, if WWF is still committed to doing an updated Gorgeous George/Adrian Street thing I don’t know who they plug into that, but it’d almost certainly not work or have the longevity it does without Dustin. 

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Would Hulk Hogan have been more popular/over if he had better/more hair for his whole career? This is a serious question. My answer would be that he was the pinnacle of success in pro wrestling and there was no higher level to attain, but his outside ventures, if not celebrity, would have been bigger had his Crowning Glory not been all skint.

- RAF

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On 7/23/2020 at 3:45 PM, SorceressKnight said:

The mixture of "Rude vs. Michaels wrote itself", plus "He was a bonafide top star in WCW", multiplied by "WWF was losing stars to WCW left and right at the time, and Rick Rude would be one of the first true 'we got one BACK' moments in the war" would likely mean Rude would be a big deal.

And Rude would have been another added to the list who would have kicked the crap out of Michaels for his backstage antics.

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3 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Would Hulk Hogan have been more popular/over if he had better/more hair for his whole career? This is a serious question. My answer would be that he was the pinnacle of success in pro wrestling and there was no higher level to attain, but his outside ventures, if not celebrity, would have been bigger had his Crowning Glory not been all skint.

- RAF

Hogan didn't have a chance to do much more than he did.

Having better hair wouldn't have changed that he wasn't a good enough actor to truly cross over and be a BIG action star, and by the time he was a big enough star to have a chance at crossing over, he had the aura of being too kid-friendly to get into the '80s action movie explosions over talent group of action stars.

It seems inevitable Hogan would devolve into "B-level family film actor", "cameos in family movies or for nyuk-nyuk value", and "the closest thing that our world would have to Krusty the Clown". 

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On 6/15/2020 at 9:29 AM, Infinit said:

Wasn't the underage? I don't think a HHH-like situation would be possible.

Savage bailed the WWF two months after Stephanie turned 18. She said she grew up idolizing Miss Elizabeth as a child, and it's not a stretch to say by proxy she had a crush on Randy. Randy was supposedly staying over at Vince's a lot as he was working in the office at the time. What's to say that Stephanie didn't swoop in when the two were drinking a bit on a night Vince was out of town, she laid it down to him that "hey, I'm 18 now".  Randy probably woke up the next morning thinking, "well, I gotta get the fuck out of here now." Vince might not have learned the truth until later. 

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On 7/25/2020 at 1:42 AM, Al Madril's Lighter said:

Savage bailed the WWF two months after Stephanie turned 18. She said she grew up idolizing Miss Elizabeth as a child, and it's not a stretch to say by proxy she had a crush on Randy. Randy was supposedly staying over at Vince's a lot as he was working in the office at the time. What's to say that Stephanie didn't swoop in when the two were drinking a bit on a night Vince was out of town, she laid it down to him that "hey, I'm 18 now".  Randy probably woke up the next morning thinking, "well, I gotta get the fuck out of here now." Vince might not have learned the truth until later. 

I thought, if the Stephanie/Savage thing wasn't just something we made up, the story was "supposed to be" that Savage was on the prowl to go after Stephanie, and he had it planned as far back as the 1980s (with the alleged claim Savage banging Stephanie was his revenge on Vince for Vince refusing to book Angelo Poffo in some throwaway legends' battle royal in 1987.) Likewise, Vince apparently didn't find out until 1996, when Vince was in talks to bring Savage back to WWF and Stephanie would have disclosed it at that time.

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I'd really like to conduct a seance and try and reach Randy Savage to ask him about this, but feel like I'd get him after having done some pure ghost cocaine, and I'd end up with carpal tunnel in my wrist trying to keep up with the Ouija board responses 

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