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Posted (edited)

Maybe there was animosity between Clarke, and the office that we don’t know about(Like he sucked for one).

We know that Adams, and Taker were friends, but I don’t believe Taker, and Clarke were.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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Oh, I was only asking because I thought someone might have an actual answer, not inviting speculation from the guy that likes to make stuff up about the Undertaker. Thanks though.

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11 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Oh, I was only asking because I thought someone might have an actual answer, not inviting speculation from the guy that likes to make stuff up about the Undertaker. Thanks though.

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Wasn't their bad blood with Adams because he jumped to WCW after Montreal?

James

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He did leave over that, but so did Davey Boy, and they didn't seem to have a problem with pushing him to the main event in 99 despite several good reasons not to. 

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Because people actually cared about DBS and he had some name value, to the point that him coming in saying he was coming for the title kinda meant something. I don't think anyone ever cared about Crush

James

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Posted (edited)

I’m reading that Clarke actually quit in 95. Apparently over not getting the IC belt(So he claims).

 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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Never watched that Kronik match from 01 before.

Until now. At 4am.

They were totally in the right to not take the blame for that match. Neither were in the worst two workers of that match. Kane looks awful throughout. Clark doesn't sell anything granted but his stuff looks good and fairly crisp.

Eugh. The Jericho/Steph stuff doesn't age well either.

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2 hours ago, J.H. said:

Because people actually cared about DBS and he had some name value, to the point that him coming in saying he was coming for the title kinda meant something.

...well, that and the "all signs say that Davey Boy Smith agreed to double-cross the Hart Family and publicly say WWF was blameless in Owen Hart's death if they rehired him and gave him a main event push." That too. 

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On 5/24/2019 at 7:41 AM, happjack said:

The drop in ratings, the cost of running a pro wrestling division and the desire to be rid of the carny con-men who fleeced Turner and Time Warner seem like pretty plausible reasons for dumping wrestling

To be fair that describes executives in any business. I don't think Bischoff thought he was fleecing Turner. I think he made a huge miscalculation in how he set up the budget in WCW, that they would have to make 1998 money to keep the company profitable. But I don't think he was malicious in it. 

If you look at the history of TBS owning WCW, they were wanting to kill it even when it got high ratings and was cheap to produce. 

About Kronik in 2001 WWF. Adams did not leave on great terms in late 97. He was angry about Jeff Jarrett burying him on TV as a nobody. This was when Jarrett had not debuted because he viewed his opponents as not being stars. Adams also put up a stink about putting Kane over in a segment during the period Kane was randomly attacking guys. 

I never understood why that match got so much shit. It wasn't a good match but I would not call it bad. It always looked like Taker and Kane were the problem because they were not selling for Kronik, even for a face in peril segment. Which if Taker was the one fighting for them to come in, doesn't make sense. 

Maybe it was never true.

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4 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

...well, that and the "all signs say that Davey Boy Smith agreed to double-cross the Hart Family and publicly say WWF was blameless in Owen Hart's death if they rehired him and gave him a main event push." That too. 

Why did they not give Neidhart a main event push or even a roster spot. 

They thought Davey Boy still had something to give since it is obvious Vince was not watching WCW. The Davey Boy who left in 97 was not the Davey Boy who came back in 99 and he was quietly pushed down the card. Even trying to give him the Euro belt since he was also a draw in the UK, but his back was shot. Its not like Davey Boy was Bruce Hart and bribed with a main event push. 

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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but Nitro had slipped below TNT's average prime time rating, so it was no longer helping at all. 

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Posted (edited)

Really? That feels wrong. I'm not saying its not true, it is just hard to imagine. 
One last thing about Kronik in 2001 WWF. After the PPV they were sent to HWA and Clarke quit since he found the idea demeaning. Adams went with it since a check is a check. 

Edited by Victator
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If WCW never signs Hogan in 1994, how quickly does Vince bring him back? Does he wait until business tanks in Bret's year off with Diesel and Shawn as champions? Mix that up with a "What if Dustin Rhodes only gets fined, not fired, for blading at WCW UnCensored" and you've got a Rhodes vs Austin World Title match on top of Starrcade 97, while Survivor Series '97 sees Rocky Miavia as the newest recruit to the New Generation in their endless war against The Immortals.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, AxB said:

If WCW never signs Hogan in 1994, how quickly does Vince bring him back? Does he wait until business tanks in Bret's year off with Diesel and Shawn as champions? Mix that up with a "What if Dustin Rhodes only gets fined, not fired, for blading at WCW UnCensored" and you've got a Rhodes vs Austin World Title match on top of Starrcade 97, while Survivor Series '97 sees Rocky Miavia as the newest recruit to the New Generation in their endless war against The Immortals.

This wording makes sound like Jack Kirby was wrtiting a wrestling show

James

Edited by J.H.
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21 hours ago, AxB said:

If WCW never signs Hogan in 1994, how quickly does Vince bring him back? Does he wait until business tanks in Bret's year off with Diesel and Shawn as champions? Mix that up with a "What if Dustin Rhodes only gets fined, not fired, for blading at WCW UnCensored" and you've got a Rhodes vs Austin World Title match on top of Starrcade 97, while Survivor Series '97 sees Rocky Miavia as the newest recruit to the New Generation in their endless war against The Immortals.

Honestly, that might be the toughest call for when Hogan comes back.

On the one hand, Vince will bring back anyone if he can make money on them...but on the other hand, Hogan would be coming off of testifying against Vince in the steroid trials, but on the other other hand, Vince would absolutely know that he could make big money off of Hogan vs. Vince, but on the other other other hand, it's seeming no Hogan in WCW, no NWO, which means no Attitude Era AND no "hey, wait a minute. Evil Eric Bischoff is working- maybe that thing I did in Memphis could have a punch to it."

Bare minimum, I assume it's a non-starter. Vince wouldn't have brought Hogan back until 1996-97 (likely since Piper was also involved in the steroid trial and Vince brought Piper back in 1996, and was considering bringing Savage back in 1996 as well)...but we know from Hogan that he's such an attention whore that if he was off TV for that long, he probably would have signed with WCW in 1995 and  presumably been the big surprise debut on the Nitro premiere anyway.

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I was going with the assumption that WCW refused to break their wage structure at any point, so none of the nWo big money contracts happen. But once Thunder in Paradise was cancelled, would Hogan have been willing to drop his asking price to get on TV? Doesn't sound like him. He'd probably schlepp around Hollywood looking for a movie deal until Vince brought him back.

During the build to Hogan vs Michaels, HH said he wanted Michaels to be like he was in 1997. In this timeline, the feud actually happens in 1997. Shawn still loses.

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 7:34 PM, Victator said:

I never understood why that match got so much shit. It wasn't a good match but I would not call it bad. It always looked like Taker and Kane were the problem because they were not selling for Kronik, even for a face in peril segment. Which if Taker was the one fighting for them to come in, doesn't make sense.

What I recall hearing is that Taker pushed to bring in Adams (and Clarke by proxy), but when they got there he found that the WCW locker room had given them a bad case of Bagwell Syndrome (ie. bad attitude, poor work ethic, large egos). Since he was the one to vouch for them, he felt personally insulted and decided to bury them instead of making them look good.

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FWIW, the whole Hogan testified against Vince thing is really overblown. I mean, yes, he was a witness called by the state, but he didn't really say anything particularly damning. He didn't testify that Vince told him to take steroids, or that he got steroids from Vince or anyone else in the WWF.

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What if JBL hadn't given Vince a decent stock tip (unsubstantiated rumour) and got a run with the belt? Who else could have plugged the heel gap Brock Lesnar left?

Similarly, what's the consensus on the JBL run now? I remember everyone hating it at the time, mainly because it came out of nowhere

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I think we get a prolonged title run for Eddie in which we see him turn into his true "lie, cheat and steal" character in order to keep the title. Kind of like the heel character he was during his 05 run. 

I wasn't a fan of the JBL run. He had his entertaining moments, but right around the time he won the title was when Smackdown started going downhill in my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, olythegreat89 said:

I wasn't a fan of the JBL run. He had his entertaining moments, but right around the time he won the title was when Smackdown started going downhill in my opinion.

Same with me. It had two moments. Those being the Eddie, and Cena matches. But that was more on those performers killing themselves to get those matches over. Also the later match was the end of his run on top, so that may have raised my appreciation to it. But yeah I barely watched any of that JBL hokey character at the time.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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Posted (edited)

All I remember was he'd been pretty much relegated to tag team jobber in the last incarnation of the APA and was going nowhere fast, then he was given this opportunity and he was adamant he was going to get over no matter what which resulted in him trying to get heat anyway he could (very cheaply, especially at the beginning) and then Eddie really put him over. It was just so weird seeing someone go from nothing to that over the course of literally a couple of months

I've still no idea why JBL/Cena didn't go on last, especially as Cena became the man

Edited by CreativeControl

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The reaction to JBL at the time was essentially the same as the Jinder Mahal reaction two years ago, but the character and the matches really held up when I went back and watched again. I never felt he got enough credit for how well he transformed from midcard Stan Hansen clone into top heel. 

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7 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The reaction to JBL at the time was essentially the same as the Jinder Mahal reaction two years ago, but the character and the matches really held up when I went back and watched again. I never felt he got enough credit for how well he transformed from midcard Stan Hansen clone into top heel. 

Yeah I was going to make the Jinder comparison, it's pretty much like for like. I think by the time his run was over he'd pretty much cemented himself as a top guy but boy were those first six months rough

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