Happ Hazzard Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 What if: The Bulldogs and the Hart Foundation go the NWA instead of the WWF in 84/85, and the Rock n' Roll Express and the Midnight Express go to the WWF instead of the NWA at the same time? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Happ Hazzard said: What if: The Bulldogs and the Hart Foundation go the NWA instead of the WWF in 84/85, and the Rock n' Roll Express and the Midnight Express go to the WWF instead of the NWA at the same time? It would have been a lot more believable for the Bulldogs / Hart Foundation to be going up against The Road Warriors than either Express. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 The Midnight Rockers would have been called the Bulldog Foundation. In all seriousness, both teams might have remained as teams for slightly longer, Harts vs Andersons would be remembered as the greatest tag feud in history, and (if Dynamite's back holds up a bit longer) Liger vs Dynamite rather than vs Pillman would be the feud that defined Liger in America. Decent trade off for Bulldogs vs Malenkos not happening. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olythegreat89 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The Rock N Roll Express would've been heavily pushed in the Rock N Wrestling Era. The Midnight Express would probably be managed by Jimmy Hart and the Hart Foundation would probably be managed by Jim Cornette. Would've loved to see Flair vs Dynamite in the mid 80s. Midnight Rockers probably join the NWA because the WWF has the originals. WCW has Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart going into the 1990s but still finds a way to self implode by 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Also, Ricky and Robert get on the gas at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Most likely Vince splits the Rock n Rolls at some point and Ricky Morton gets Bret's IC title run, at least. Maybe he gets Bret's first World Title run as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, Log said: Also, Ricky and Robert get on the gas at some point. And judging by history- sadly both probably be dead. It wasnt just the gas - but the WWF ring was a hell of a lot harder to bump on than the NWA. Arn in his podcast went ar length about that. So I'd imagine that Ricky & Robert with their small stature and bumping like mad would have been popping more pain meds than anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Oddly, blade jobs may have arguably less damaging to long term health than the steroids. Juice > the Juice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, olythegreat89 said: The Rock N Roll Express would've been heavily pushed in the Rock N Wrestling Era. The Midnight Express would probably be managed by Jimmy Hart and the Hart Foundation would probably be managed by Jim Cornette. Would've loved to see Flair vs Dynamite in the mid 80s. Cornette and the Midnights were a unit in Mid-South and World Class before they went to the NWA so I imagine they'd have gone to the WWF together. The Hart Foundation would have needed a manager in the NWA though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Happ Hazzard said: Cornette and the Midnights were a unit in Mid-South and World Class before they went to the NWA so I imagine they'd have gone to the WWF together. The Hart Foundation would have needed a manager in the NWA though. Gary Hart Presents... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 If the Midnights are in the WWF in 1987 and Dennis bails, who replaces him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Happ Hazzard said: If the Midnights are in the WWF in 1987 and Dennis bails, who replaces him? Paul Diamond, obviously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 54 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said: Gary Hart Presents... More like the latest members of Paul Jones Army to feud with Jimmy Valiant. Valiant's Beard vs Neidhart's Beard at Starrcade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatling Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Happ Hazzard said: If the Midnights are in the WWF in 1987 and Dennis bails, who replaces him? Greg Valentine? He and Beefcake split at WM 3, around the same time Condrey left. Valentine didn't like teaming with Bravo, maybe he'd have been more comfortable teaming with Bobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, gatling said: Greg Valentine? He and Beefcake split at WM 3, around the same time Condrey left. Valentine didn't like teaming with Bravo, maybe he'd have been more comfortable teaming with Bobby? I have a love/hate with this thread. On the one hand, it’s fun to think about things like this. On the other hand, I’m sad now because I’ll never see a Valentine/Eaton team. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamhock Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The Hart Foundation only happened because Bret didn’t want to be “Cowboy” Bret Hart, correct? In the NWA, that doesn’t happen, and maybe he just stays a single and gets Windham’s original spot with Dusty after Windham jumps in late 1984, instead of Magnum getting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 51 minutes ago, Log said: I have a love/hate with this thread. On the one hand, it’s fun to think about things like this. On the other hand, I’m sad now because I’ll never see a Valentine/Eaton team. Silent But Deadly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 43 minutes ago, Hamhock said: The Hart Foundation only happened because Bret didn’t want to be “Cowboy” Bret Hart, correct? In the NWA, that doesn’t happen, and maybe he just stays a single and gets Windham’s original spot with Dusty after Windham jumps in late 1984, instead of Magnum getting it? Given that Magnum was already an upper mid carder at the time, that might be projecting 1984 Hart too high. And Dusty would have made him wear a cowboy hat too, prob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister TV Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Given that Magnum was already an upper mid carder at the time, that might be projecting 1984 Hart too high. And Dusty would have made him wear a cowboy hat too, prob. Yeah, Magnum had that big run in Mid-South which Dusty was familiar with while Bret was headlining in Western Canada for a promotion his family owned. Bret would have been a lower card up and coming babyface with more wins but still kind of stagnate just like he was in WWF pre-Hart Foundation, maybe he works his way up the card to where he's at TV or US title level by 1987. Also Bret would never gotten that women want him/men want to be him vibe with the southern fans like Mags did. Neidhart as a single in JCP is totally in the Paul Jones Army and most likely moving on after he's asked to loose the goatee to the Boogie Man. I think the Bulldogs starting off as faces but making a heel turn would have worked in JCP, they would have needed a team who could bump for them and get sympathy which the Rock n Roll Express were perfect at. The Bulldogs vs. Road Warriors seems like it would have just ended up with Dynamite and Hawk no selling each other and becoming a border line fist fight. If the Midnight's went to the WWF they end up in the same slot The Hart Foundation were in and would have needed whoever was dropping the tag belts to want to drop it to them and not Sheik and Volkoff. Midnights vs. Strike Force a few years later would have been sweet. I don't see the Rock n Roll really clicking in the WWF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I dont see Bret doing much if anything in the NWA as a singles act. He would have been a Sam Houston level act. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I think the Rock 'n Rolls get over in the WWF. There really hadn't been a team like that there before, small guys who could get sympathy, do quick tags and flashy maneuvers to overwhelm their larger opponents. Stick them with Captain Lou at first, have Ozzy Osbourne come out with them at WM2, with them winning the belts over Valentine and Beefcake, then move them onto feud with the Midnights throughout 1986 and 1987, assuming neither Ricky or Robert goes down with injuries like Dynamite did you could get a second title run out of them in place of Strike Force before having them job to Demolition at WM4, then move them down the card and have them work with the likes of the Rougeaus and Tully & Arn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said: I dont see Bret doing much if anything in the NWA as a singles act. He would have been a Sam Houston level act. This was pretty much what I was thinking up to this point in the thread. If Bret and Anvil go to Crockett in 85 and are kept separate like they were initially in WWF, Bret is a credible babyface that might get a Mid-Atlantic or Junior Heavyweight Title run but that's his ceiling during that time period. I could maybe see if him and Anvil get teamed up down the road they would have a similar run to Rude/Fernandez first half of 87, but that's about it. The Bulldogs I see more as heels in Crockett, though some of that admittedly may be my desire for how brutal their Techwood squashes against hapless jobbers would be, as well as the idea that potentially we could have had Bulldogs vs Wahoo and Ron Garvin as the midcard tag feud I never knew I wanted until I just typed this. I think the Rock and Rolls would have adapted better to 80s WWF than the Midnights. I agree with the one poster earlier that said they could slot into the Bulldogs spot as a near-analogue, as RnR vs Valentine/Beefcake also probably would have been MOTN at Wrestlemania 2, and them vs Volkoff/Sheik, Moondogs, and The Funks in 86, and later on in 87/88 against Demolition and Islanders all would have been great and gotten over. I do think in the end though him being shorter than Bret and being too Southern would have prevented Ricky from getting the IC and World Title pushes that the Hit Man got. The Midnights I really dont see rising to higher than being a gatekeeper team, them really being a true Southern tag heel formula team I think would have turned Vince off of seeing them as the tag champions, but he could still see they would be good enough to be in the midcard tag division role similar to what the Rougeau Brothers were in 89. I dont think they would be the tag team Champions, but I could see them being the final match of the night to send the crowd home happy on shows where Hogan's title defense is in the middle of the show, or headlining the B-shows. But now given the idea of Hart Foundation/Bulldogs going to JCP and RnR/Midnights going to WWF, the other really big ripple effect is that if that happened, how would things go with The Rockers once it was time to leave AWA? You would think that WWF wouldn't be interested in Shawn and Marty if they have Ricky and Robert, so maybe THEY join the Harts and the Bulldogs in JCP, so then we get Rockers vs Bulldogs down south? And Marty and Shawn dont go up north until after Ricky and Robert head elsewhere? Edited December 3, 2019 by clintthecrippler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I think a big factor on Bret's push in JCP/NWA initially would be how good a relationship Stu had with the Crocketts and/or Dusty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 The funny thing is there was already a job guy in JCP named Brett Hart aka Jack Hart aka Barry Horowitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintedbynumbers Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 11 hours ago, clintthecrippler said: This was pretty much what I was thinking up to this point in the thread. If Bret and Anvil go to Crockett in 85 and are kept separate like they were initially in WWF, Bret is a credible babyface that might get a Mid-Atlantic or Junior Heavyweight Title run but that's his ceiling during that time period. I could maybe see if him and Anvil get teamed up down the road they would have a similar run to Rude/Fernandez first half of 87, but that's about it. The Bulldogs I see more as heels in Crockett, though some of that admittedly may be my desire for how brutal their Techwood squashes against hapless jobbers would be, as well as the idea that potentially we could have had Bulldogs vs Wahoo and Ron Garvin as the midcard tag feud I never knew I wanted until I just typed this. I think the Rock and Rolls would have adapted better to 80s WWF than the Midnights. I agree with the one poster earlier that said they could slot into the Bulldogs spot as a near-analogue, as RnR vs Valentine/Beefcake also probably would have been MOTN at Wrestlemania 2, and them vs Volkoff/Sheik, Moondogs, and The Funks in 86, and later on in 87/88 against Demolition and Islanders all would have been great and gotten over. I do think in the end though him being shorter than Bret and being too Southern would have prevented Ricky from getting the IC and World Title pushes that the Hit Man got. The Midnights I really dont see rising to higher than being a gatekeeper team, them really being a true Southern tag heel formula team I think would have turned Vince off of seeing them as the tag champions, but he could still see they would be good enough to be in the midcard tag division role similar to what the Rougeau Brothers were in 89. I dont think they would be the tag team Champions, but I could see them being the final match of the night to send the crowd home happy on shows where Hogan's title defense is in the middle of the show, or headlining the B-shows. But now given the idea of Hart Foundation/Bulldogs going to JCP and RnR/Midnights going to WWF, the other really big ripple effect is that if that happened, how would things go with The Rockers once it was time to leave AWA? You would think that WWF wouldn't be interested in Shawn and Marty if they have Ricky and Robert, so maybe THEY join the Harts and the Bulldogs in JCP, so then we get Rockers vs Bulldogs down south? And Marty and Shawn dont go up north until after Ricky and Robert head elsewhere? I think a lot of what the Rockers end up doing depends on how Crocketts/Dusty would have dealt with their backstage partying/attitude. Although after seeing the behind the scenes at the Bash video damn those guys partied as hard as the Stamford crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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