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Would it have required that much tweaking to what came about with the insane heel promos in the mid 90s?

Him riffing on Joe Strummer politics of that era, joining up with the Iron Sheik and protesting US foreign policy in the middle East for oil interests could have been a fun attempt at expanding into the Watts territory during the oil issues of the time.

I mean sure they'd have just paired him with Mad Maxine and confused punk with greaser, but fuck it, this is now a greater opportunity missed than Sheik Tugboat

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14 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

This. How in the hell 'they wanted Backlund to dye his hair and start acting like a heel' turned into PUNK ROCK BOB is beyond me.

IIRC, Backlund himself said the endgame for 'dye his hair and turn heel' was to repackage him into a punk rocker, and that's why he left WWF the first time.

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So on the 6:05 Superpodcast Harley Race tribute episode, it's mentioned that after Larry Hennig came back from his broken leg in March of 1968 Harley wanted to keep their tag team but take it on the road but Larry wanted to stay in the AWA.  How does the NWA change in the 1970's if Race and Hennig team until the end of 1970 and make stops in Australia, JCP, Georgia, Florida and elsewhere in that two and a half year time?  Harley would have only had about two and a half years as a singles act in this scenario instead of the five years he actually had when he got the belt from Dory Jr. in 1973, so he's probably not established enough to be that transitional champ right?  Who would get that spot to move the title from Funk to Brisco?  Buddy Colt?  Dusty?  Bob Roop?  Is there any chance by late '73 or early '74 Harley looks around and thinks his best chance to be a World Champion is to go back and buy in to the AWA?  If that happens, do we get NWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel instead for a short run or two?

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I don’t think this made the cut in the pod I just did with Semp, but I think, if he hadn’t bought Knoxville, Ron Fuller was prob being groomed as a possible champ. Pushed by Eddie in Florida, pushed by Sam and Pat O’Connor in STL, sent to work an MSG show for Vince. Legit sports background and would have likely been backed by his father, grandfather and the Fields. 

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Fuller was actually my first thought for who could have had that 1973 two month run with the belt, but that was year Ron broke in so that was unlikely.  He bought Knoxville in 1974 so there wasn't a big window there, but maybe by 1977 when Harley had his second run Ron would have been in a position to let Robert book and taken a year with the belt? Would Bobby Shane have been an option in 1973 at all?

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34 minutes ago, gatling said:

Fuller was actually my first thought for who could have had that 1973 two month run with the belt, but that was year Ron broke in so that was unlikely.  He bought Knoxville in 1974 so there wasn't a big window there, but maybe by 1977 when Harley had his second run Ron would have been in a position to let Robert book and taken a year with the belt? Would Bobby Shane have been an option in 1973 at all?

Going by the podcast, Ron broke in full time in 1970. He had a few months in Georgia (when it was run by Buddy and Ray Gunkel) and then he went to Florida and Robert went to Tennessee. 

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14 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

IIRC, Backlund himself said the endgame for 'dye his hair and turn heel' was to repackage him into a punk rocker, and that's why he left WWF the first time.

Where did Backlund say this? I can see Vince spitballing ideas and saying something like "hey we can make you a punk rocker" without having any clue on what a punk rocker even was with Backlund only knowing about Punk Rock from that episode of Quincy. Or Vince just wanted to be done with Backlund and suggested the hair dye and punk rock stuff to get him to quit. 

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10 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Going by the podcast, Ron broke in full time in 1970. He had a few months in Georgia (when it was run by Buddy and Ray Gunkel) and then he went to Florida and Robert went to Tennessee. 

That's what I get for going by Wikipedia I guess, should have checked cagematch I suppose.  If that's the case, then yes I think Ron Fuller would have been a great choice in 1973 for that transitional role if Harley wasn't in position for that.  I wonder if Ron had that short run if he'd want to take a longer run with the belt or stay home to run his territory?

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4 hours ago, happjack said:

Where did Backlund say this? I can see Vince spitballing ideas and saying something like "hey we can make you a punk rocker" without having any clue on what a punk rocker even was with Backlund only knowing about Punk Rock from that episode of Quincy. Or Vince just wanted to be done with Backlund and suggested the hair dye and punk rock stuff to get him to quit. 

Apparently on both sides, it was about trying to change Backlund's image for the times (remember, Backlund was as unpopular as Roman Reigns at that point.) 

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42 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

Apparently on both sides, it was about trying to change Backlund's image for the times (remember, Backlund was as unpopular as Roman Reigns at that point.) 

As a kid in a WWF town during the pre and early expansion era Backlund wasn't hated or unpopular in a Roman Reigns sense, his act and matches were well past their shelf date, he still got a good pop when he made his comebacks but everyone was snoozing until that point. The likes of Jimmy Snuka & Rocky Johnson pre expansion and Hulk Hogan & Sgt. Slaughter post expansion were what we wanted in Pittsburgh at that time to the point where Backlund basically got demoted on the Civic Arena cards in 1983, he either finished the night in a quick match against the likes of Ivan Koloff and George Steele or was in a B show town, while Johnson and Snuka each worked three match runs against Muraco for the IC belt. Once Hogan showed up Backlund was still positioned as a top face but you could tell his heart really wasn't in it and the influx of new talent both face and heel by the summer of 84 got him lost in the shuffle.

Here's a run down of the Pittsburgh Civic Arena house show main's and Backlund matches in 1983, I went to almost all of these.

January (14,000) - Backlund vs. Muraco in double count out

February (10,000) - Backlund pins Muraco in Texas Death Match, decent drop off from the previous month.

April (16,000 sell out) Rocky Johnson vs. Muraco IC title match in main event slot before intermission, Backlund teams with Snuka & Andre against Studd & The Wild Samoans to close the night. 

May (14,000) Rocky Johnson vs. Muraco IC title Texas Death Match that ends with Muraco leaving the ring, this was in the main event slot. Backlund closed the night in a WWF title match against Ivan Koloff. 

June (16,000 sell out) Rocky Johnson vs. Muraco in a cage match for the IC title, card also had Andre vs. Studd and Snuka & Putski vs. The Wild Samoans for the tag belts, Backlund is working a spot show in Brooklyn, NY.

July (14,000) Andre vs. Studd in a Body Slam Match in the main event slot, Snuka vs. Muraco double dq for the IC belt and Backlund ends the night in a WWF title match against George Steele.

August (14,000) Snuka vs. Muraco for IC title in pre intermission slot and the night ends with Andre vs. Studd in a cage with Swede Hanson as guest ref, Backlund was in Framingham, Mass against Afa.

October (12,000) Snuka vs. Muraco for IC title in a strap match, no Andre or Backlund on the card and the extra month lay off really cooled off the Snuka-Muraco feud for us yinzers, Backlund was in Waterville, Maine against Slaughter.

November (10,000) Backlund vs. Masked Superstar for WWF title in main event slot, no Snuka or Andre on the card to help boost the house.

December (6,000) Backlund vs. Masked Superstar for WWF title ends in a count out, other big match was Snuka and Arnie Skaaland against Muraco & Captain Lou.

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What if CM Punk followed through with the part of The Pipebomb where he thought about taking the WWE Championship to Shin Nihon Puroresu? This was 2011, so Nakamura, Tanahashi Goto, Shibata, Nagata,  Kojima and Makabe were in the main event picture, so there's a lot of dream matches (well, I don't know about Makabe.....)

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What if The Giant would have beat Hogan clean at Halloween Havoc? That’s like asking what if water wasn’t wet I know but the answer to that would have been...whatever WCW would have wanted. They would have had out of the giant man gimmick what everybody before tried to get out of it - a truly unbeatable Giant. He could have been champion for years and whoever beat him could have been the next Hogan. 

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1 hour ago, BloodyChamp said:

What if The Giant would have beat Hogan clean at Halloween Havoc? That’s like asking what if water wasn’t wet I know but the answer to that would have been...whatever WCW would have wanted. They would have had out of the giant man gimmick what everybody before tried to get out of it - a truly unbeatable Giant. He could have been champion for years and whoever beat him could have been the next Hogan. 

Nash still would have powerbombed him on his head.

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7 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

What if The Giant would have beat Hogan clean at Halloween Havoc? That’s like asking what if water wasn’t wet I know but the answer to that would have been...whatever WCW would have wanted. They would have had out of the giant man gimmick what everybody before tried to get out of it - a truly unbeatable Giant. He could have been champion for years and whoever beat him could have been the next Hogan. 


Lots and lots of stretching here, but the main problem with this is that it would have derailed the NWO angle, which was way better and far more successful than any angle with Giant could possibly have been.

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:34 AM, Thomas Bugg said:

What if CM Punk followed through with the part of The Pipebomb where he thought about taking the WWE Championship to Shin Nihon Puroresu? This was 2011, so Nakamura, Tanahashi Goto, Shibata, Nagata,  Kojima and Makabe were in the main event picture, so there's a lot of dream matches (well, I don't know about Makabe.....)

Granted, at the time, Davey Richards was on top, but Punk defending the WWE Title in 2011 ROH would have been fun. You still had a lot of soon-to-be WWE talent that we all love running around there, like Generico, Steen, Claudio, Hero, Strong, etc. And then other non-future WWE employees, like Eddie Edwards and Christopher Daniels. I think that's the more likely scenario if WWE went that route, although if them working with EVOLVE right now is solely due to Gabe, then it's probably possible that they work with Dragon Gate USA instead of ROH in 2011.

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42 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


Lots and lots of stretching here, but the main problem with this is that it would have derailed the NWO angle, which was way better and far more successful than any angle with Giant could possibly have been.

Along these lines, I never really understood why Luger got to win the belt while the whole Sting angle was going on. Surely you just have Hogan to run roughshod until Starrcade and Sting steamrolls him (lol)

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16 hours ago, MORELOCK said:


Lots and lots of stretching here, but the main problem with this is that it would have derailed the NWO angle, which was way better and far more successful than any angle with Giant could possibly have been.

I don’t agree had the Giant been made a real heel, big man champion. Proof is actually in the NWO storyline as Luger’s win over him was it’s pinnacle. It was impossible with Hogan running things sure but that wasn’t the point. Meanwhile the NWO storyline, as great as it was, amounted to crap on payday. The NWO storyline was like going on the trip of a lifetime then crashing into an iceberg and dying. I’d have rather just not went lol!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Luger has popped up in conversation around the board a bit in recent weeks. It made me wonder, I thought The Narcissist gimmick was a good fit for him and I seem to recall him being built up as a challenger to Bret (they worked eachother on the house show circuit at some point I think?). Onto the question - what would have happened if they'd kept him in that gimmick longer term instead of his abrupt face turn into the patriotic opponent to Yokozuna? What does the summer of 1993 look like if The Lex Express and his face push never happen? Who does he feud with and who gets in a program with Yoko after Hogan leaves?

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5 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Luger has popped up in conversation around the board a bit in recent weeks. It made me wonder, I thought The Narcissist gimmick was a good fit for him and I seem to recall him being built up as a challenger to Bret (they worked eachother on the house show circuit at some point I think?). Onto the question - what would have happened if they'd kept him in that gimmick longer term instead of his abrupt face turn into the patriotic opponent to Yokozuna? What does the summer of 1993 look like if The Lex Express and his face push never happen? Who does he feud with and who gets in a program with Yoko after Hogan leaves?

I don't know what Luger does in 1993 without the face push,  but the summer of 1993 had so many good options you could go anywhere with it. Either you go back to the well of Bret vs. Yoko (and likely in the process keep Owen as a babyface low-carder, and with the "he was planning to retire until the push he got" that changes things in a whole way).

Even then, I'd be most likely to assume the summer of 1993 would be Tatanka vs. Yokozuna, Undefeated Streak vs. Unstoppable Monster, while keeping Bret valid for Mania X as in real life (and with Tatanka kind of fizzling out after his streak ended, there wouldn't need to be the co-champs angle in 1994...which in the process probably ends Owen's big push, and from there goes outwards.) 

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