Wrestling What Ifs

[SorceressKnight]

15 hours ago, Happ Hazzard said:

If the whole  "Plan B" thing had gone public back in 1979, would Bob Orton have had his spot in the early expansion era of the WWF, and would Randy Orton have become the major star he became in the 00s? 

Honestly, that's a little hard to know: On the one hand, that would be grounds for a blackballing in the business.

On the other hand, if Orton was blackballed from the NWA, he'd probably end up an outlaw promotion star (and Randy Savage did come from the outlaw promotions, so WWF might have still signed him.) 

Heck, even if Randy Orton does lose a major star, Boris Malenko in the "Plan B" thing may have been WORSE if it went public. Malenko gets blackballed, then Dean Malenko's career never takes off- and suddenly, there's far bigger changes. 

None of Malenko's trainees probably get any fire (so no X-Pac, Molly Holly, etc.) , AND Malenko was a big part of the cruiserweight booking scene in WCW (so lose that, and there's a real chance the cruiserweights don't catch fire and give the American audience a taste for that style, which changes the indie wrestling style and how the WWE style got smaller in the 21st century.) 

Edited March 19, 2019 by SorceressKnight

[AxB]

I was trying to think of the least consequential What If ever, and I had wondered if "What If TNA had pushed Young Boy Kazuchika Okada strongly, and he'd arrived back to NJPW as a former World Champion with wins over Angle, Sting and AJ?" would be an example. Because the answer would be NJPW would have immediately pushed him into an IWGP Title shot, and he could have won the belt, and become the new Ace, and headlined the Tokyo Dome, and that's exactly what happened anyway. 

But then I thought no, that would be massively consequential, because potentially it could make Okada a bit smug and lazy, rather than being desperate to succeed like he is. Maybe. But definitely it would mean that NJPW would then see TNA as the ideal US partner promotion, send more excursion talent (or main eventers; Samoa Joe vs Prince Devitt in the Impact Zone instead of NXT, and a few years earlier) over, co-promote big shows and so the ROH alliance probably wouldn't happen. So everyone who got into NJ from ROH either wouldn't have gone, or would have had to join TNA to get there. And ROH would be a much smaller deal because of that.

[evidence]

Don't know if this one has been asked before but which company do you think books Hogan vs. Flair better if both men are working in the same promotion in the 1980s during their primes (thinking 1986-87)? WWF has the mainstream outreach to make it as big of a deal as they want but  I wonder if the WWF would have the mentality of ignoring all of Flair's past accomplishments.  IF JCP has Hogan, do they pull the trigger on a victory against Flair or try to drag out the feud with as many cheap finishes as they can? Does Crockett allow Hogan to run as the #1 face or is he the #2 face behind Dusty?  Also if (which I can't see any scenario in 80s WWF where he would) Hogan were to jump would the backlash be there like mid-90s WCW?

[Mister TV]

#1 - Vince would have went all out with Hogan vs. Flair in 1986/1987 since it would gave given the WWF credibility and most likely drawn huge houses in "NWA" towns like Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas along with the traditional WWF towns. I think the WWF would still book Flair as "The Real World Champion" but they'd put more teeth into it but still not mention the letters NWA. 

#2 - The only way for Hogan to work in JCP is if Dusty goes back to his home planet.

[Brian Fowler]

On 5/5/2019 at 10:39 AM, AxB said:

I was trying to think of the least consequential What If ever, and I had wondered if "What If TNA had pushed Young Boy Kazuchika Okada strongly, and he'd arrived back to NJPW as a former World Champion with wins over Angle, Sting and AJ?" would be an example. Because the answer would be NJPW would have immediately pushed him into an IWGP Title shot, and he could have won the belt, and become the new Ace, and headlined the Tokyo Dome, and that's exactly what happened anyway. 

But then I thought no, that would be massively consequential, because potentially it could make Okada a bit smug and lazy, rather than being desperate to succeed like he is. Maybe. But definitely it would mean that NJPW would then see TNA as the ideal US partner promotion, send more excursion talent (or main eventers; Samoa Joe vs Prince Devitt in the Impact Zone instead of NXT, and a few years earlier) over, co-promote big shows and so the ROH alliance probably wouldn't happen. So everyone who got into NJ from ROH either wouldn't have gone, or would have had to join TNA to get there. And ROH would be a much smaller deal because of that.

Although it's obviously utter bullshit, you reminded me of one of my favorite wrestling conspiracy theories. That Gedo sent Okada to TNA because he knew he was going to make him the ace the day he got back, knew that TNA would book him as terribly as possible, and knew that would help keep him humble with his big monster push.

[SorceressKnight]

On 5/5/2019 at 10:39 AM, AxB said:

I was trying to think of the least consequential What If ever, and I had wondered if "What If TNA had pushed Young Boy Kazuchika Okada strongly, and he'd arrived back to NJPW as a former World Champion with wins over Angle, Sting and AJ?" would be an example. Because the answer would be NJPW would have immediately pushed him into an IWGP Title shot, and he could have won the belt, and become the new Ace, and headlined the Tokyo Dome, and that's exactly what happened anyway. 

But then I thought no, that would be massively consequential, because potentially it could make Okada a bit smug and lazy, rather than being desperate to succeed like he is. Maybe. But definitely it would mean that NJPW would then see TNA as the ideal US partner promotion, send more excursion talent (or main eventers; Samoa Joe vs Prince Devitt in the Impact Zone instead of NXT, and a few years earlier) over, co-promote big shows and so the ROH alliance probably wouldn't happen. So everyone who got into NJ from ROH either wouldn't have gone, or would have had to join TNA to get there. And ROH would be a much smaller deal because of that.

This honestly is the weird thing for what ifs: Just going for an inconsequential What If? is almost cheating (pick a random house show, say "what if the other result happened?" on some random match, odds are it's done.)

Even finding big things that'd be remotely inconsequential kind of works- a good example there: "What if Verne Gagne gave Hulk Hogan the AWA title?" is a good example there: Even if there was the "Hogan would get the AWA Title", "Gagne presumably gives Hogan his Japan money to keep him", and even "Verne forces Hogan to marry his daughter"- AWA was so much smaller and the opposite of everything Hogan was in-ring wise, Hogan was so larger than life and so ready for prime time, and WWF was so ready for momentum that they'd need Hogan to make it galvanize...that it's fair to say that What If would be an obvious "If Hulk Hogan gets the AWA Title and doesn't sign with WWF in 1983, then he signs with WWF in 1984."

The real fun seems to be in the "find some inconsequential thing that happened in wrestling history that, upon reflection, could have ripples well into the future and really changed things."

[J.H.]

Beefcake getting his face smasged is a prime example of this. He was definitely winning the IC strap at SS that year. So how different would him as IC be?

James

[Matt D]

11 minutes ago, J.H. said:

Beefcake getting his face smasged is a prime example of this. He was definitely winning the IC strap at SS that year. So how different would him as IC be?

James

Perfect would have won it back in December. Kerry wouldn't have kept it together enough to have a real push. Some of the individual feuds could have been interesting. Kerry and Perfect were tied together for six months basically before Kerry moved on to Dibiase. Beefcake had already feuded with Perfect though.

[J.H.]

Honestly, I think Pewrfect regains and then Beefcake gets a 2nd reign come Mania. He was jusyt way to over. Then they could have him lose the belt at the following SummerSlam and set him up to chase the world title. I mean that actually seemed to be his path from when I was a kid

James

[notoriusvig]

I loved Beefer as a kid but I can't see his career path being much different than how it ended up.  I can't picture Vince actually belting him, just a chase at Slaughter or something.  It's not like Brutus was so amazingly talented that he'd be able to draw.  Nowadays, he'd probably get one of the belts though, maybe.

[The Great ML]

46 minutes ago, notoriusvig said:

I loved Beefer as a kid but I can't see his career path being much different than how it ended up.  I can't picture Vince actually belting him, just a chase at Slaughter or something.  It's not like Brutus was so amazingly talented that he'd be able to draw.  Nowadays, he'd be a nine time “World Champion.”

 

[Matt D]

We should do a Beefcake vs Seth Rollins poll.

[The Great ML]

I’d rather watch prime Beefcake than Rollins. Dude bores me to tears.

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

Was there ever a prime Beefcake? BB is on my shortlist of "Slowly I Turned..." Least Favorite Wrestlers Ever, Give me a weakest-aspects-of-puro SRollins marathon over any character of Mr. Leslie anytime. The man is a stone cold drag as a worker.

- RAF

 

[The Great ML]

Beefcakes peak was 89-90. He was solid...granted most of my hatred for anything Rollins is really not his fault.

The entire current product is horrible...but Rollins whiny voice needs to be far away from 20 minute talking segments.

[AxB]

Considering how many Wrestlers have a Wrestling Voice they use on TV, that is completely different from how they talk in real life, you wonder why Seth never tried one. 

[SorceressKnight]

3 hours ago, L_W_P said:

Which of the big WCW contracts back on 2001 has the biggest "What if?"

Hogan? Goldberg? Sting?

Plenty of talk/fantasy booking about having them available but let's say Vince feels like he can afford 1 of them to lead the invasion angle? Hogan/Goldberg v Austin make a heap of sense. Sting as the face of WCW vs "Locker Room Leader" Undertaker as well.

I feel like if Hogan gets bought out then it all goes a little pear shaped. I can see him being like RVD and getting massive pops despite being a 'heel'. Same with Goldberg and Sting actually... Come to think of it, did Vince leave the A plus guys on the shelf because he was worried they might get bigger reactions than his roster?

Honestly, I think the only What If? would be Hogan, since we saw the result there...comes back with NWO, fans refuse to boo him, he's a hero in a month.

Everyone else- Sting/Goldberg were big names, but Diamond Dallas Page was every bit the "BIG WCW STAR" that Sting and Goldberg were, and was easily the big main event WCW guy to lead the Invasion angle.

...we saw how that turned out.  I don't see Goldberg coming out any better than DDP did (and Sting would be, at best, in the RVD level.)

[AxB]

Well, the problem with DDP in WWE was the whole thing of him writing people match scripts and giving them to his opponents, even if he wasn't the veteran in the match. Which had the whole WWE locker room saying 'This guy doesn't know how to work' and lead to Taker deciding to just squash him flat. Whereas Sting would probably be more respected because he was old school enough, and Goldberg was at least legit NFL... although he also ended Bret's career, which probably wouldn't endear him to anyone in WWE (except Shawn and Vince).

[MORELOCK]

Goldberg had the benefit of people in the company actually wanting him to succeed. The DDP stuff is the only example I can think of as far as Taker playing politics (maybe the Kronik stuff too, I'm always skeptical of "backstage attitude" unless multiple examples come up), but the angle was ruined from the start. There was no logical reason why DDP would be stalking Taker's wife. The reveal made zero sense. And that was the biggest WCW star they had. Even if Taker had put him over clean, that angle was shit. 

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

But all those DDP motivational speaker promo videos make me happy inside.

There are so many good ones.

I dig a happy rassler.

- RAF

[Nice Guy Eddie]

6 minutes ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

But all those DDP motivational speaker promo videos make me happy inside.

There are so many good ones.

I dig a happy rassler.

- RAF

The transition from the motivational speaker gimmick to DDP Yoga seems like a pretty natural one.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie

[BurningBeard]

On 5/18/2019 at 1:13 PM, MORELOCK said:

Goldberg had the benefit of people in the company actually wanting him to succeed. The DDP stuff is the only example I can think of as far as Taker playing politics (maybe the Kronik stuff too, I'm always skeptical of "backstage attitude" unless multiple examples come up), but the angle was ruined from the start. There was no logical reason why DDP would be stalking Taker's wife. The reveal made zero sense. And that was the biggest WCW star they had. Even if Taker had put him over clean, that angle was shit. 

Kronik was doubly bizarre as Taker was always tight with Crush wasn't he?

As far as the big name what if from 2001, at the time I would have said Goldberg without a shadow of a doubt

[BrianS81177]

I doubt Goldberg would have signed unless they guaranteed in writing that he would be a main event level guy. Ditto for Sting. The only guy I could see taking the money if Vince offered more than what Time Warner was paying would be Flair. 

[olythegreat89]

What if Hogan never signed with WCW in 94 and stayed with the WWF? Would we have seen an Attitude Era? How would the Kliq respond with him still being in the spotlight? 

I kind if liken Hogan in 93/94 to Brock right now. I feel like WWE is holding on to Brock at the expense of SOOOOO many other talents they could be developing and pushing as main event stars. Maybe they're afraid AEW could throw some big money his way? Letting Hogan go and the New Generation Era led to a pretty hard time for them financially (I love this era), but it allowed younger talent to develop and eventually led to the Attitude Era. 

[Brian Fowler]

On a similar note: what if Bischoff never fired Austin. Just kept him in that midcard scene. Does WWF ever bounce back? Without that fury driving him, does Austin ever become a major star? How good is Austin in that WCW midcard in 97?!?