Infinit Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 They did do the MX injures Pillman's that with the tennis racket angle. I just saw the WCWSN episode for the first time a few days ago, after watching a clip of it when it happened on an episode of WWW back in 1990. It was taped in Altoona PA, which I thought was an odd place for them to do a tv taping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I dont think this one has been posted before. What if Terry Taylor had never been given the Red Rooster gimmick? Say WWF just brings him in as cocky arrogant heel Terry Taylor instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Non-Rooster Taylor would have never gotten past the lower midcard, but his career wouldn't be ruined. His WCW run would be a bit more successful, but I don't think there are any huge changes from Taylor not being the Rooster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 For the Pillman move...I think the bigger what if wouldn't have been seen from WCW, but rather the WWF at the time. A Pillman main event run would have been normal in WCW (and likely either upped cruiserweight wrestling to the forefront or destroyed junior heavyweights from making it in America), but more specifically- if Pillman succeeded, then Shawn Michaels would have inevitably been seen as a Pillman ripoff in his singles run (and lost a little of his buzz)...which changes things since Shawn wouldn't have the hype to work the Kliq, and that potentially changes a lot of history right there. And it's similar to the "What if Terry Taylor wasn't the Red Rooster?" thing- even if the rumor of "Curt Hennig and Terry Taylor had the Mr. Perfect and Red Rooster gimmicks on the table at the same time" thing was or wasn't true- it was true that both guys couldn't really coexist as top guys. Either they end up teaming or one is a star and the other isn't....and Hennig was better than Taylor, so inevitably Hennig would swim and Taylor would sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Infinit said: They did do the MX injures Pillman's that with the tennis racket angle. I just saw the WCWSN episode for the first time a few days ago, after watching a clip of it when it happened on an episode of WWW back in 1990. It was taped in Altoona PA, which I thought was an odd place for them to do a tv taping. Yeah Cornette said they filmed a lot of the stuff. He said he wanted it to be as wild as possible so that they could generate a ton of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 hours ago, CreativeControl said: I guess they kiiiiiinda did this with the Horsemen taking him out prior to War Games 91, then him still entering the match only to be KO'd by Sid, which somehow then led into the taped fist match with Windham, but that was as far as it went right? It didn't exactly legitimise him to the extent Flair wanted from the above but certainly raised him up a notch. As for the second part of your question, judging by his lacklustre face run in 93 post-Blonds I don't think it would have got him over as much as hoped. It's crazy to think of him perceived as 'too small' as he would be huge compared to WWE wrestlers these days, but that's the way it was back then Eh, I'd say that's a stretch. The Horsemen did injure him but Pillman was the guy who took the fall in the WG match plus he lost that Taped Fist match with Windham. He somehow ended up being the Dirty Yellow Dog out of all of this. Not exactly the push Flair was envisioning. I think if they'd have followed through with the whole angle, it would've elevated him. Would he have been a long-term main event guy? Maybe not due to his size but I don't think he would've been floundering around as much as he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 FWIW, people were turning on the Zenk/Pillman team for being too white-meat babyfaceish. Even PWI pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 From what i remember, Pillman had a couple great matches with Flair and Arn on both WCWSN and Main Event during spring 91 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 15 hours ago, cwoy2j said: Eh, I'd say that's a stretch. The Horsemen did injure him but Pillman was the guy who took the fall in the WG match plus he lost that Taped Fist match with Windham. He somehow ended up being the Dirty Yellow Dog out of all of this. Not exactly the push Flair was envisioning. I think if they'd have followed through with the whole angle, it would've elevated him. Would he have been a long-term main event guy? Maybe not due to his size but I don't think he would've been floundering around as much as he was. El Gigante came in to throw in the towel because Pillman was getting pummelled, so it protected him and his fire in some regard. I know it's a stretch, but having been put through the WCW committee grinder this was obviously the end result of Flair's initial idea. As for the Yellow Dog stuff, I'm drawing a complete blank on how that all came about but remember it featuring heavily on whatever late night WCW show we used to get in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 6 hours ago, CreativeControl said: El Gigante came in to throw in the towel because Pillman was getting pummelled, so it protected him and his fire in some regard. I know it's a stretch, but having been put through the WCW committee grinder this was obviously the end result of Flair's initial idea. As for the Yellow Dog stuff, I'm drawing a complete blank on how that all came about but remember it featuring heavily on whatever late night WCW show we used to get in the UK If getting the piss beat out of you and being made to look like the weak link who needed to be saved by your big giant buddy is being protected, I'd hate to see what WCW would've considered a burial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Pillman lost a Loser Leaves Town match to Windham and became The Yellow Dog. So they basically did the exact opposite of what Flair initially wanted which was to make Pillman a credible singles threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, cwoy2j said: If getting the piss beat out of you and being made to look like the weak link who needed to be saved by your big giant buddy is being protected, I'd hate to see what WCW would've considered a burial. To be fair, Pillman was beaten down before the show and still was the first guy in the cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Yeah, if I recall correctly the WCW Saturday Night before the Wargames show Pillman was the only member of his team who didn't go to the city the show was in, so the Horsemen all showed up and just beat the hell out of him. Sting and others wanted him to be the last one in to protect him, but he basically jumped in the cage first in order to go after them as soon as possible. At the end he got destroyed by Sid, but it took two powerbombs (and remember, the powerbomb was like death incarnate back then) and he never gave up. They never really capitalized on it well sadly as his big revenge moment was costing Arn Anderson the tv title, and that just lead to him becoming Yellow Dog after that loser leaves town tag match, but I think the original angle itself was perfectly fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 ^ He gets it. I fully understand your original point cwoy, but that whole programme elevated Pillman from where he was at previously. Not to the level Flair wanted but as much as he was going to get in 1990 WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Was that the match where one of the Powerbombs got messed up, because Pillman's feet hit the cage roof on the way up? Because he took a nasty bump on that one, iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, AxB said: Was that the match where one of the Powerbombs got messed up, because Pillman's feet hit the cage roof on the way up? Because he took a nasty bump on that one, iirc. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Bugg Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 While we're talking Herd-era WCW, would the Dynamic Dudes have worked out better in the WWF? Corny talked about it on the Drive Thru a few months back. I think with Herd being a vapid idiot and not realizing that WCW's fanbase was old style NWA fans that didn't want to see any of the WWF horseshit, at least in the WWF whoever had the book at the time would've made a few tweaks to the gimmick, or since it was getting crapped on in Philly and the fans were chanting "JOHNNY SUCKS DICK, JOHNNY SUCKS DICK" at Laurinitis they would've added heel elements and had them paired up with a Demolition or a Hart Foundation, one of the WWF tag teams that were actually cool. And I would imagine that with the resources that they had in Titan Towers, even by 1989-90 standards, someone would've at least taught them how to goddamn use the skateboard, or at least had them use roller skates instead, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Johnny Ace did eventually learn how to use the Skateboard. Shane D never did though. Also, if you google 'Johnny Ace gif', you get more AJ Lee perv shots than AJPW kill spots. It's odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 3:12 AM, CreativeControl said: ^ He gets it. I fully understand your original point cwoy, but that whole programme elevated Pillman from where he was at previously. Not to the level Flair wanted but as much as he was going to get in 1990 WCW. I get that it got him over past the lower card but it wasn't anywhere near what they were actually trying to do. Flair wanted him to be a credible main event guy and they crafted an angle that would've done so. Then they crafted another angle that basically just got him on tv more and ended up with him wearing a yellow body suit and calling himself a dog. If they'd have followed through with what Flair had wanted, they might have had a bigger star on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Thomas Bugg said: While we're talking Herd-era WCW, would the Dynamic Dudes have worked out better in the WWF? Corny talked about it on the Drive Thru a few months back. I think with Herd being a vapid idiot and not realizing that WCW's fanbase was old style NWA fans that didn't want to see any of the WWF horseshit, at least in the WWF whoever had the book at the time would've made a few tweaks to the gimmick, or since it was getting crapped on in Philly and the fans were chanting "JOHNNY SUCKS DICK, JOHNNY SUCKS DICK" at Laurinitis they would've added heel elements and had them paired up with a Demolition or a Hart Foundation, one of the WWF tag teams that were actually cool. And I would imagine that with the resources that they had in Titan Towers, even by 1989-90 standards, someone would've at least taught them how to goddamn use the skateboard, or at least had them use roller skates instead, or something. That's an interesting question. WWF did cartoonish gimmicks way better than NWA/JCP did so I think the Dynamic Dudes would've at least been a good midcard tag-team there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I dunno, The Dudes weren't... ummm... that Dynamic. I mean outside of the match where Cornette turned on them do they have any other memorable matches? Even with the WWF creative team marketing them if the team isn't at least fun to watch then what would be the point? I think the Dudes would just end up being Young Stallions 2.0 in WWF James 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, J.H. said: I think he Dudes would just end up being Young Stallions 2.0 in WWF That's a pretty good comparison. That's pretty much as far as Douglas got in his first run in the WWF, a Roma and Powers level JTTS. For some reason, he did last a while in the '91 Royal Rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 Not long ago, Cornette discussed Pillman's match vs Flair as well as the angle with Pillman and the MX, which was watered down by Herd and Jim Barnett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: That's a pretty good comparison. That's pretty much as far as Douglas got in his first run in the WWF, a Roma and Powers level JTTS. Which was unfortunate, would've liked to see him higher up. He talked recently about original plans for that run was to have him be a Bon Jovi esque rock star and he would sing his theme music, they had songs for him to record for an album but he had to leave to take care of his sick dad at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 14 hours ago, odessasteps said: Not long ago, Cornette discussed Pillman's match vs Flair as well as the angle with Pillman and the MX, which was watered down by Herd and Jim Barnett. Yeah, that's what prompted my post. Here's a youtube vid of him talking about it: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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