BurningBeard Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 They were hemorrhaging cash under Frey. Watts was brought in to cut costs and boost revenues. I figured that had to be the likely reason. Too bad because didn't both the Steiners and Paul E leave due to Watts cutting costs? Basically, Watts didn't take a salary but took a percentage of the money he saved the company instead... so of course it was in his best interest to cut contracts, lowball what few stars WCW had leading them to quit on his watch. Everyone's so quick to give Watts a verbal blowjob but I honestly think hiring him was one of the worst things WCW ever did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 What if Shieky takes Verne up on his offer, breaks Hogan's leg and takes the WWF title to the AWA? I was watching some Hulk matches from 84, I don't think Sheik is breaking his leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 WCW was really just a clusterfuck from day one, wasn't it? If you mean from the moment Turner bought out Crockett, yeah pretty much. Granted, 1989 was a critical success (not sure how it was from a financial perspective), but once Flair lost power in 1990 and Herd began to exert more of his influence, WCW really started becoming WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Bugg Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 WCW was really just a clusterfuck from day one, wasn't it? If you mean from the moment Turner bought out Crockett, yeah pretty much. Granted, 1989 was a critical success (not sure how it was from a financial perspective), but once Flair lost power in 1990 and Herd began to exert more of his influence, WCW really started becoming WCW. I think WCW lost money even then- looking back at the arena results (http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/wcw89.htm), I'd say 3,000 attendance in an arena is hardly what you'd call making money hand over fist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't think they gave a shit about house show draws at Turner as long as the viewing numbers on TV were good. That's another strike against Watts - wanted to put more of an emphasis on house shows, not realising he was working for Turner Broadcasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libs Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 What if Triple H didn't tear his quad the second time? Rumored at the time was Cena/HHH II at Mania 23, would H have gotten the win this time which would've meant no year+ long reign for Cena? Wonder where it would've left HBK as well, maybe in that year's MITB. With the way it ended up, I always loved the whole build to and eventual match(es) of Cena/Michaels and Cena's great reign in general afterwards. Not sure what would have happened to Cena, but Booker T has said the original plan, before things got shuffled around, for Trump/McMahon was him representing Vince and Michaels representing Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.J. Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Michaels vs. Booker T is a match I oddly really want to see. I'm not really a fan of Booker T's work either. What if Angle hadn't have left for TNA? Angle vs Punk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Afaik, WCW lost money every year Turner owned it until 96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Michaels vs. Booker T is a match I oddly really want to see. I'm not really a fan of Booker T's work either. What if Angle hadn't have left for TNA? Angle vs Punk? I think it depends on whether or not Angle was a big enough draw to be exempt from getting wellness policy-d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Afaik, WCW lost money every year Turner owned it until 96. Didn't Turner underpay WCW for the TV rights? I was under the impression that WCW padded the bottom line of TBS and TNT due to the cheap rights fee charged, leaving WCW in the red. Granted, house show attendance was terrible, and PPV buys were not good, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yes, and TBS got the full advertising revenue. I think Bisch got that changed for Nitro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN! Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Michaels vs. Booker T is a match I oddly really want to see. I'm not really a fan of Booker T's work either. Also, Nash and Waltman just hanging out on the can together. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Yes, and TBS got the full advertising revenue. I think Bisch got that changed for Nitro. He started in 94 charging TBS rights fees. Once Flair took control in 89, the TV Ratings reached their pre Monday Night Wars peek. A match on Saturday Night with Pillman vs Flair did a five year high rating. The next night a RnR vs Flair and Arn match did a six year high. The Midnight Express record book gives you a good idea of what the scene was like. Nobody booking WCW was going to right the house shows, because someone else was booking the venues. The scheduling is nonsensical. Go back to 1988 and by the end of the year, the house shows were drawing well. The Road Warriors heel turn had shaken things up. Crockett had a cash flow problem. All Turner had to do was just give some money and leave the basic infrastructure alone. That is my take on the matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L_W_P Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If Michaels was fit from 99-02 does HHH get the mega push with Corporate DX behind him? Where does Shawn fit in? I only ask because it amazes me that we never got HBK v The Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If Michaels was fit from 99-02 what happens to the guys he (sorta) trained? Bryan, Kendrick, London, Cade....do they still make it as far if trained elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newb82 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm glad Kip Frey got mentioned. I'm in the midst of watching SuperBrawl II and he was mentioned in the beginning of the show by Ross. I'm not incredibly familiar with early 90's WCW but I know well enough that Jim Herd=terrible, Bill Watts=improvement over Herd but a little dated in his ideas, just nothing about Kip Frey. Did he have a wrestling background or was he just a random Turner executive? He gave big bonuses which caused wrestlers to (1) be happy (2) bust their ass. All things considered he sounded like a great boss from what little I remember from Foley's book... I wish I could remember the Kevin Nash quote about Kip Frey from that book too "The good thing about Kip is that he's sexy in a shy kind of way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 If Michaels was fit from 99-02 does HHH get the mega push with Corporate DX behind him? Where does Shawn fit in? I only ask because it amazes me that we never got HBK v The Rock. If I recall correctly, the Rock veto'd that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yeah, Rock reportedly vetoed every idea for a program with HBK. The story is that Rock hates Michaels for interfering with his push when the Kliq had power. Also, there was some sort of incident with Michaels and Rock's grandmother back when Rock was a teenager (Michaels appeared on a show promoted by Rock's family). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Wasn't Rock also close with Bret Hart as well? I vaguely recall something along those lines James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Even after HBK retired, he tried to get Rock out of the Mania XV main event, according to Foley Is Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Think it was 16 as he didn't like it being a 4 way dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 No it was 15, they were going to do Rock vs Mankind vs Austin. Shawn tried to say a triple threat would hurt the Mania main event and they should run Austin vs Mankind. Instead they just left Mankind out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Cibernetico Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I understand The Rock's beef with Shawn Michaels, but what is Michaels beef with The Rock? I can't think of no other reason than Michaels looking at The Rock and seeing him as being better than Shawn in a lot of aspects and that Rock had the potential to become bigger than Michaels in every category. You talk to a wrestling fan and they will know HBK and Rock. You talk to a non-wrestling fan and of the two, they will only know The Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libs Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Rock and HHH were basically competing for the same spot/tier when all of this was happening (this was before Rock fully blew up to the extent he did) and Michaels was protecting/backing his boy in the asshole way he rolled back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Blue Sam Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Also, as mentioned before, Bret was pretty high on the Rock, which meant that Michaels was against him for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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