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FEBRUARY WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale. I don't know (or really care) about who was a draw or not. But in terms of big matches and moments, HHH has had a bunch over the years. He's also been REALLY good in The Authority angle. For those who say they're sick of him, he and Steph took off a lot of weeks and they've usually been relegated to one or two segments per show. They've been pretty limited -- it's a lot better than the era when HHH and whoever would take up like half the show in some never ending promo.

As far as his machinations to get ahead -- that's what he SHOULD be doing. Everyone in the WWE should want to be on top. What, Flair and Dusty and Harley and Lawler and whoever else never buried anyone over the years? Wrestling's cutthroat. Politicking and the like can certainly harm a product -- see WCW -- but the WWE never approached that level of awfulness.

HHH made a lot of people over the years and also no doubt buried some folks. The Jericho WM build was so friggin' bad. But guess what? The initial idea was Jericho's. It got turned around because "HHH wasn't the type of character who would let his wife cheat on him" and was dumb.

 

But aside from that, not sure I care too much about the other people he supposedly buried. The Spirit Squad sucked. Booker T survived just fine.

The Clique's rise came because they started pitching ideas and going to creative meetings or however you term it. Why didn't (and doesn't?) EVERYONE do that? If you're a performer and this is your livelihood, you're responsible for how you get presented. A lot of stuff might be out of your control and stuff like Kizarny or whatever is doomed to fail. But some guys like Punk and Bray can sorta just do their own thing because they're good at it.

 

...Which is why CM Punk said "Fuck it" and quit.

 

 

And also held the title for over two years. And got The Undertaker match. And possibly (probably?) working everyone.

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I gotta throw a couple HHH counterpoints in here-

He's not the one that had the power to bury people. Your beef should be with Vince if you think someone was buried. That's a valid beef in some cases, like Booker T should have fucking won that feud.

Why should the champion have to fucking make anybody? They should already be "made" before they get a shot at being champion. Yes, I know HHH was made after he was champion already but try to see what I'm saying here.

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He held the title for 1 year. And the only time he was in the main event during that time was when Cena was too injured to work. And before all that, he got to put over Triple H coming off his hot angle for no reason.

 

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Nobody gave a fuck about Punk with the title after he won it until he feuded with Rock. Nobody. The idea that Punk was buried whilst being the champion and having the longest reign in modern times is scraping the barrel of excuses for your guy.

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Lets try to remember also..  2002-04 WWE was not exactly a hotbed of up and coming talent. SD! was a very strong show top to bottom but on RAW...  Triple H was stuck feuding with Kane, RVD, Out of shape Steiner, Nash, HBK, Goldberg..  He wasn't holding anyone down.

 

All of the guys that came in around that time who WWE wanted to turn into stars became stars. Your Cena's, Orton, Batista, Lesnar...  

 

I can't think of anyone who had star potential who Triple H held back as some would have you believe. He did try with Shelton. We found out quickly that Shelton couldn't be a top guy.

 

Kane and RVD were both very over at the time, and somehow, completely accidentally I am sure,  you left off Booker T.

 

I mean when the HHH-marks can actually present a straight argument about that period, I might actually buy into it. But they never can.

 

http://youtu.be/h3WHwZVACPM

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Lets try to remember also..  2002-04 WWE was not exactly a hotbed of up and coming talent. SD! was a very strong show top to bottom but on RAW...  Triple H was stuck feuding with Kane, RVD, Out of shape Steiner, Nash, HBK, Goldberg..  He wasn't holding anyone down.

 

All of the guys that came in around that time who WWE wanted to turn into stars became stars. Your Cena's, Orton, Batista, Lesnar...  

 

I can't think of anyone who had star potential who Triple H held back as some would have you believe. He did try with Shelton. We found out quickly that Shelton couldn't be a top guy.

 

Kane and RVD were both very over at the time, and somehow, completely accidentally I am sure,  you left off Booker T.

 

I mean when the HHH-marks can actually present a straight argument about that period, I might actually buy into it. But they never can.

 

(youtube video)

 

 

23 seconds to make the cover after hitting the finishing move, that has to be a record, right?  They should have just done a kick out, another pedigree, ending at that point.

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Would it have been preferable had Flair never come back to the WWE in 2002, and HHH takes the Flair role in Evolution, and Shawn takes his?

 

Shawn was marginally preferable from 2002 onwards..

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Who debuted the next night on Raw?

 

This is a great point, but to counterpoint, they didn't put the gold on Goldberg until October, if I recall correctly.

 

Just for how the feud was about a bad guy basically saying black guys are fuckups, to have the heel win and prove that is a bad move. They should have either changed the focus of the feud or had Booker go over and drop it back to HHH in a couple of months.

 

Back to HHH in general, I think he would have been a more well-received heel ace if he did more stuff like in early '00, where he was kind of a chickenshit that took shortcuts, but sometimes was able to tough it out and surprise everyone by winning a brawl. In '02/'03, he was pretty much King Badass with these terrible control segments that went on and on in each match much like his typical promo of the time. I honestly don't ever think I've enjoyed HHH as a promo, though. However, in the ring, had HHH been more of the dude that got his ass kicked and sold a beating until needing Evolution to come save his ass, he would have been more watchable to me. 

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Some people don't want to buy the story that WWE/Vince/Creative wanted to keep the title on Triple H so he could drop it to Goldberg. So instead, we have people saying that Hunter buried Booker T. There's really not anywhere else to go with that argument.

 

The same guy points to RVD... I said this in an earlier post. RVD was super over in 2001 during the Invasion. He was arguably the hottest act in the company. He was receiving better reactions than The Rock in some cities. Why didn't Austin drop the title to RVD at that point?

 

Everyone blames Hunter for not putting over RVD but nobody wants to explain why RVD wasn't given a shot while HHH wasn't even around..

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What Cornette says makes sense. 03-04 is when Rock, Austin, to an extent, Taker all left or switched to part time. You had two shows to book, Smackdown had Angle/Lesnar/Taker main eventing, but then you had to have someone on Raw, who's left? Triple H was the only believable guy to take over, and then you had people like Booker T and RVD who were on the cusp of breaking through but weren't quite there yet.

I mean it's pro wrestling. Guys are always going to want to protect their spots, and guys will be victims of awful booking.

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Most of the time, if a guy is hot going into a feud with HHH, he is much less so when the feud is over.

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale.

And HHH isn't one of them.

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I attribute the weird booking in '02 to cooling off creatively after a hot period, not to HHH burying guys. I'm sure that he did no more or less jockeying to keep his spot than other wrestlers in his position. 

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Most of the time, if a guy is hot going into a feud with HHH, he is much less so when the feud is over.

 

Like who, though? Jeff Hardy was super over when he faced Triple H and if you fast-forward he remained that way...maybe more so. Batista was hotter coming out. Cena never lost steam. Benoit was as over after tapping to HHH as he had ever been. Orton's momentum stalled because they turned him into the kind of babyface that we ALL hate and even he made it back to the top.

 

Show me the guys that fell apart after a Triple H feud.

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale.

And HHH isn't one of them.

With respect, you pretty much hate everything on WWE TV so its not like you have a fair and balanced opinion here.

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From Alvarez

 

 

This week's CM Punk rant from another WWE employee: "Honestly, Punk is being a little bitch. I liked him so much before his run leading to and after that Money in the Bank in Chicago. He's a guy where you have to be really in his circle for him to I guess open up, which I understand, but being put in a feud with Kane and then with HHH at Mania is not a bad thing. Now I understand he feels this is his last Mania and he wants to main event and really, with the right storyline, that match could main event, but literally after the Tribute to the Troops incident he's just been difficult. There are so many there that want his spot, that want to say, 'I need a weekend off to go to UFC.' I really and fully believe he's a little jealous of the crowd reactions to Bryan and it's getting to him—He's just been such a dick lately. That interview with Ariel, he acted like he was the victim at the Troops taping when Michelle was just joking. Little bitch AJ took it to the wrong level. Do you really think AJ would have a 'pipe bomb' interview time or longest Diva champ BS if she wasn't dating Punk? Punk really doesn't want to be the face of the company. That's BS. I hate hearing that shit. He says he does but this isn't ROH or OVW. He would bitch so much if he had to do Michael & Kelly at 9 a.m., then fly to a different state (for Raw), do a Make-A-Wish at 1 p.m. and then RAW, then do SmackDown, then do something Wednesday to fly home Thursday to be on the road Friday or Saturday. No way he could handle that for four months. He may come back as soon as Monday or he may never come back, but if never comes back he better remember how many fans he's fucking over right now, the same way he believes the WWE is fucking him over. And I'm not defending Vince or HHH. Especially HHH, because people are seeing that HHH taking over isn't as cool as they thought it would be. Outlaws, Nash, X-Pac, Flair, HBK, Batista—yeah must be nice to be HHH friends."

 

Disagree about AJ, she's talented enough to get a push on her own merits. But it seems absolutely true that Punk is the type of guy to bitch about not being the face of the company, then get annoyed if he's asked to do a hectic travel schedule/talk show rounds a la Cena.

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale.

And HHH isn't one of them.

With respect, you pretty much hate everything on WWE TV so its not like you have a fair and balanced opinion here.

Pfft. You're not even on WWE TV any more, Phil.

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From Alvarez

This week's CM Punk rant from another WWE employee: "Honestly, Punk is being a little bitch. I liked him so much before his run leading to and after that Money in the Bank in Chicago. He's a guy where you have to be really in his circle for him to I guess open up, which I understand, but being put in a feud with Kane and then with HHH at Mania is not a bad thing. Now I understand he feels this is his last Mania and he wants to main event and really, with the right storyline, that match could main event, but literally after the Tribute to the Troops incident he's just been difficult. There are so many there that want his spot, that want to say, 'I need a weekend off to go to UFC.' I really and fully believe he's a little jealous of the crowd reactions to Bryan and it's getting to him—He's just been such a dick lately. That interview with Ariel, he acted like he was the victim at the Troops taping when Michelle was just joking. Little bitch AJ took it to the wrong level. Do you really think AJ would have a 'pipe bomb' interview time or longest Diva champ BS if she wasn't dating Punk? Punk really doesn't want to be the face of the company. That's BS. I hate hearing that shit. He says he does but this isn't ROH or OVW. He would bitch so much if he had to do Michael & Kelly at 9 a.m., then fly to a different state (for Raw), do a Make-A-Wish at 1 p.m. and then RAW, then do SmackDown, then do something Wednesday to fly home Thursday to be on the road Friday or Saturday. No way he could handle that for four months. He may come back as soon as Monday or he may never come back, but if never comes back he better remember how many fans he's fucking over right now, the same way he believes the WWE is fucking him over. And I'm not defending Vince or HHH. Especially HHH, because people are seeing that HHH taking over isn't as cool as they thought it would be. Outlaws, Nash, X-Pac, Flair, HBK, Batista—yeah must be nice to be HHH friends."

Disagree about AJ, she's talented enough to get a push on her own merits. But it seems absolutely true that Punk is the type of guy to bitch about not being the face of the company, then get annoyed if he's asked to do a hectic travel schedule/talk show rounds a la Cena.

Look at Mingebag Miz failing to cover his tracks adequately.

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Here's the other thing about HHH now:

Why would he bury dudes now that he's essentially running the company? Isn't his goal now to be the best booker in wrestling history? I know a lot of people over the course of time have booked themselves as on top, but the dude's not even wrestling beyond once or twice a year. He's "on top" in The Authority but he really hasn't hogged screen time. I can't think of any of his segments that have been egregious -- most of them advance the plot in some fashion or add to what's going on.

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Miz is too classy to write something like that.

 

No, really. He actually does seem too professional to go complaining to dirt sheets.

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Here's the other thing about HHH now:

Why would he bury dudes now that he's essentially running the company?

5YyFoPs.png

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In a swerve worthy of Russo, it will turn out Heyman wrote the letter.

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I don't love him as a performer but I doubt the guy who is with Maryse cares about the backstage drama of Punk/AJ.

 

It reads like 24-year old intern.

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I feel like I've narrowed that rant down to a couple of people I like seeing pushed so I'm not saying shit. I'm probably wrong anyway.

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