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FEBRUARY WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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When did Edge and Jericho go down the card other than when they got hurt and/or left the company for long stretches?  Edge was pretty much in the main event up until his neck injury and Jericho is always in the upper midcard.

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HHH is a better worker than The Rock, but if I had much more fun watching The Rock than HHH.  If I had to watch the 20 best matches of each guy, I'd probably pick HHH, but I'd have to actually look at the match listing.  As soon as you take into consideration all of the interviews, and other segments The Rock blows him out of the water. 

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Has any WWE wrestlers work suffered more from the blood ban? HHH went from having really vicious looking offense when he could work a cut with knees and knuckles to have super bland offense that just led to a really protected finish. I think there is a very clear divide in his match quality from both periods.

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I don't think Triple H ever lost to Austin once they both got to main event status. Austin beat him at Buried Alive 96 but Trips was still in Blue Blood mode.

Austin didn't beat him at S.Series 99, but he destroyed him.  It was a no-contest but, by all means, it was a loss for HHH.

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So who do you all feel Triple H has really "put over" in his career?

 

Depends on your definition.

-He put over Ultimate Warrior in a big way, though his political power was low at the time.  Same with Henry Godwinn, though he won the feud, Godwinn was elevated after their feud.

-He put Jericho over pretty big a few times, but all anyone remembers is the later burial at WM.  The Dusty finish title match and subsequent rematch (That Trips had to cheat to win) made Jericho a star in WWE, rather than an IC title-level guy.  One can argue Jericho never would have been at a WM title match level later on, if not for the pre-Invasion elevation of Jericho and Benoit during the 2-man power trip angle.

-He put over Benjamin to try to make him a main event guy, it didn't work out.

-Batista.  That whole Evolution break-up angle cemented Batista as a main eventer.

 

It would be harder to argue what guys he honestly "buried"

-Booker T in that WM feud.

-Spirit Squad

 

who am I missing?

 

Does Sheamus count? Trips beat him at Mania, but Sheamus beat him at the next PPV and put him out for nearly a year.

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HHH is like the Miz with muscles.

How so?

Annoying guy who would be best used being teamed with someone (Miz in a tag team, HHH as the leader) who gets elevated in the ensuing feud after turning face.

If you really wanted to make Roman Reigns a star, you would get a better reaction if the moment he turns came against HHH rather than Dean Ambrose. Imagine an angle where the Shield starts to think HHH is holding them down and treating them as dumb muscle to do his bidding while HHH thinks they are getting big-headed and uppity and plans to use the Wyatts to put them in their place. Maybe Christian gets taken out, the Shield insist on being given the opportunity for one of them to win that Elimination Chamber spot, and HHH says no. The Shield does not react well and all hell breaks loose.

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When did Edge and Jericho go down the card other than when they got hurt and/or left the company for long stretches?  Edge was pretty much in the main event up until his neck injury and Jericho is always in the upper midcard.

Remember when Edge was teaming with Jericho? Not the only time, either.

And HHH got hurt plenty. He always came back on top after his absences.

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Btw..all this talk of HHH burying people is awfully confusing. Watched the Thy Kingdom Come documentary on Netflix the other night. Turns out HHH faced a ton of adversity himself. He overcame it because he's a natural and the greatest, kindest person who ever lived.

 

My favorite part was Academy-Award nominee Bruce Dern talking about HHH's acting chops. Yes, this really happened.

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Lets try to remember also..  2002-04 WWE was not exactly a hotbed of up and coming talent. SD! was a very strong show top to bottom but on RAW...  Triple H was stuck feuding with Kane, RVD, Out of shape Steiner, Nash, HBK, Goldberg..  He wasn't holding anyone down.

 

All of the guys that came in around that time who WWE wanted to turn into stars became stars. Your Cena's, Orton, Batista, Lesnar...  

 

I can't think of anyone who had star potential who Triple H held back as some would have you believe. He did try with Shelton. We found out quickly that Shelton couldn't be a top guy.

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See, my big problem with the whole "HHH is brilliant, workin' the smarks" thing is that "workin' the smarks" JUST HAPPENS to look exactly like "be put over as the smartest bad-ass that's ever existed in the history of wrestling, laugh off the losses I do take, and mock, on-air, anyone who might be perceived as better or more popular in any way." Yeah, gotta be real hard to commit to all that just to work those nerdy ol' smarks.

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Lets try to remember also..  2002-04 WWE was not exactly a hotbed of up and coming talent. SD! was a very strong show top to bottom but on RAW...  Triple H was stuck feuding with Kane, RVD, Out of shape Steiner, Nash, HBK, Goldberg..  He wasn't holding anyone down.

 

All of the guys that came in around that time who WWE wanted to turn into stars became stars. Your Cena's, Orton, Batista, Lesnar...  

 

I can't think of anyone who had star potential who Triple H held back as some would have you believe. He did try with Shelton. We found out quickly that Shelton couldn't be a top guy.

 

Orton. He beat Benoit and immediately dropped it to Triple H.

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale. I don't know (or really care) about who was a draw or not. But in terms of big matches and moments, HHH has had a bunch over the years. He's also been REALLY good in The Authority angle. For those who say they're sick of him, he and Steph took off a lot of weeks and they've usually been relegated to one or two segments per show. They've been pretty limited -- it's a lot better than the era when HHH and whoever would take up like half the show in some never ending promo.

As far as his machinations to get ahead -- that's what he SHOULD be doing. Everyone in the WWE should want to be on top. What, Flair and Dusty and Harley and Lawler and whoever else never buried anyone over the years? Wrestling's cutthroat. Politicking and the like can certainly harm a product -- see WCW -- but the WWE never approached that level of awfulness.

HHH made a lot of people over the years and also no doubt buried some folks. The Jericho WM build was so friggin' bad. But guess what? The initial idea was Jericho's. It got turned around because "HHH wasn't the type of character who would let his wife cheat on him" and was dumb.

 

But aside from that, not sure I care too much about the other people he supposedly buried. The Spirit Squad sucked. Booker T survived just fine.

The Clique's rise came because they started pitching ideas and going to creative meetings or however you term it. Why didn't (and doesn't?) EVERYONE do that? If you're a performer and this is your livelihood, you're responsible for how you get presented. A lot of stuff might be out of your control and stuff like Kizarny or whatever is doomed to fail. But some guys like Punk and Bray can sorta just do their own thing because they're good at it.

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Great video.

 

Speaking of that, was the Austin 3:16 line something scripted, or did Austin just bust that out on his own and they ran with it?

Austin's told the story a couple times on his podcast. He went to the hospital to get some stitches, and when he got back Michael Hayes told him that Jake had cut a religious themed promo while he was gone. Come promo time after his win, Austin remembered the religion thing and used it.

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There are only a few wrestlers who have had the career HHH and never got stale. I don't know (or really care) about who was a draw or not. But in terms of big matches and moments, HHH has had a bunch over the years. He's also been REALLY good in The Authority angle. For those who say they're sick of him, he and Steph took off a lot of weeks and they've usually been relegated to one or two segments per show. They've been pretty limited -- it's a lot better than the era when HHH and whoever would take up like half the show in some never ending promo.

As far as his machinations to get ahead -- that's what he SHOULD be doing. Everyone in the WWE should want to be on top. What, Flair and Dusty and Harley and Lawler and whoever else never buried anyone over the years? Wrestling's cutthroat. Politicking and the like can certainly harm a product -- see WCW -- but the WWE never approached that level of awfulness.

HHH made a lot of people over the years and also no doubt buried some folks. The Jericho WM build was so friggin' bad. But guess what? The initial idea was Jericho's. It got turned around because "HHH wasn't the type of character who would let his wife cheat on him" and was dumb.

 

But aside from that, not sure I care too much about the other people he supposedly buried. The Spirit Squad sucked. Booker T survived just fine.

The Clique's rise came because they started pitching ideas and going to creative meetings or however you term it. Why didn't (and doesn't?) EVERYONE do that? If you're a performer and this is your livelihood, you're responsible for how you get presented. A lot of stuff might be out of your control and stuff like Kizarny or whatever is doomed to fail. But some guys like Punk and Bray can sorta just do their own thing because they're good at it.

 

...Which is why CM Punk said "Fuck it" and quit.

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