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Robert

General Lucha Libre Comments

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I was speaking in general there, not implying Volador had a great ground game. Sorry if that wasn't clear. He is a great flyer though.

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I really need to arrange a sit down with you & Satanico. Satanico has proclaimed Volador Jr. is the best student he's ever trained many times in the past & I just want you to explain to him how wrong he is.

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On the one hand, I think it's entirely true that wrestlers value different things than people analyzing matches. Bret is huge on safety, thinks that Cody Rhodes is one of the best wrestlers in the world right now, and probably overvalues 2007 Melina. Flair will talk all day about how Brody had the stamina to go go go for an hour. Etc. I can see why a wrestler would hugely value Volador's ability to hit spots, his timing, his positioning, a lot of the more mechanical aspects of wrestling, when that's not something I value as much. I do give him credit for certain things, and I do admit my biases and what I value, Rob. It's not black and white here.

I'm pretty transparent and consistent in what I value, I think. And it's not like there aren't modern wrestlers and matches that I enjoy and have written about (at length) as have enjoying.

On the other hand, I am probably not up to arguing with Satanico to his face. This sort of thing might happen:

 

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On 10/31/2016 at 11:52 AM, Pete said:

Caught the second half of the Friday night EMLL and loved the wacky Dia de Muertos vibe with everyone (including the refs and announcers!) in sugar skull gimmicks. Again, I think Cavernario would be a strong pickup for NXT if it ever came to that.

Same here. If Cavernario picked up English, which he seems to be doing, he'll be straight. I hear he's studying accounting in university so he'll definitely be set for after wrestling.

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3 hours ago, Tromatagon said:

kayfabe dude

fuck

That ship sailed a long time ago. :D

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I still don't get the fascination of wanting everyone to wind up in NXT. As a fan you should want them anywhere but so they can have actual good matches and not be wasted away working a completely toned down style wrestling in front of nobody for 95% of the year. If you're a personal friend of theirs then I totally get it... you want them to make decent money but I'm guessing nobody here is a personal friend of Cavernario. So what's the rush to get every < 25 year who we've only seen wrestle for 2/3 years into the shitty WWE system?

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I want the luchadors i like to keep as far away from wwe as possible.

Now, if la mascara or angel de oro or valiente want to go, best wishes.

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10 hours ago, Robert said:

I still don't get the fascination of wanting everyone to wind up in NXT. As a fan you should want them anywhere but so they can have actual good matches and not be wasted away working a completely toned down style wrestling in front of nobody for 95% of the year. If you're a personal friend of theirs then I totally get it... you want them to make decent money but I'm guessing nobody here is a personal friend of Cavernario. So what's the rush to get every < 25 year who we've only seen wrestle for 2/3 years into the shitty WWE system?

I think people already forgot about Cien Almas here

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I think it's understandable to some degree. I don't always agree with it, but I think it's understandable. There's a sense of NXT/WWE belonging to us. He wasn't on the tour, but if timing was different, I could have seen Almas live in Baltimore a month ago (and I did see Nakamura, not that he really matters to me in the grand scheme of things, but it was pretty cool). I know Rob and Cubs make trips to Mexico but that's not something I can do often. There's also an innate desire for others to care about the things we care about. I think there's a reason why people who are comics fans are so into the success of the Marvel movies, even if they're, to some degree, watered down versions of the comics. They're still mostly good, but more than that, they're popular. You can talk to other people about them more easily. They're more mainstream. That's one reason why people want a wrestling boom, so they don't have as much of a negative stigma. So people who love Cavernario may prefer a watered down version of him that they can have more social interactions over than a purer version that no one will talk to them about.

That sort of thing. I don't really agree with it but I think it's understandable. 

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You didn't (want to) even drive 20 miles to see Hechicero and Ultimo Guerrero last week ;)

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I would have driven 20 miles for Hechicero vs Ultimo Guerrero. 

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13 hours ago, Matt D said:

I think it's understandable to some degree. I don't always agree with it, but I think it's understandable. There's a sense of NXT/WWE belonging to us. He wasn't on the tour, but if timing was different, I could have seen Almas live in Baltimore a month ago (and I did see Nakamura, not that he really matters to me in the grand scheme of things, but it was pretty cool). I know Rob and Cubs make trips to Mexico but that's not something I can do often. There's also an innate desire for others to care about the things we care about. I think there's a reason why people who are comics fans are so into the success of the Marvel movies, even if they're, to some degree, watered down versions of the comics. They're still mostly good, but more than that, they're popular. You can talk to other people about them more easily. They're more mainstream. That's one reason why people want a wrestling boom, so they don't have as much of a negative stigma. So people who love Cavernario may prefer a watered down version of him that they can have more social interactions over than a purer version that no one will talk to them about.

That sort of thing. I don't really agree with it but I think it's understandable. 

Fair enough. Nothing I can argue. That makes me sad.

It's frustrating though when you see a guy like Dragon Lee for example who had his first match (that we know of) on January 1, 2014 & is barely 21 years old. Certain people act like it's criminal WWE hasn't signed him yet as if they've missed the boat on the kid.

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Should remind everyone that the Viernes Espectacular CMLL show tonight is starting later due to Mexico ending DST earlier than the US.

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6 hours ago, Matt D said:

And people say I don't like dives:

LgAjPW.gif

GD, Aguila was so great back then. 

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So that's Aguila/Papi Chulo? I looked him up and he looked like this back in '07

Mr_Aguila.jpg

Must be a Casualties fan. 

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Does anyone here know of any respectable lucha mask sales websites? Either custom designs or replicas of active wrestlers would be fine.

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Highspots used to have a lot. They also had my Dr Alquimia mask made in mexico. 

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re: Dorada's last match next Friday:

Didn't he say that he wanted a match with Atlantis and Negro Casas in it since they were so influential on his career? I know it's not as dramatic as the Dark Angel match but it seems to be what he wanted?

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He did say that but considering he's RT'ing comments about how he deserves more in his final appearence I'm guessing his idea wasn't a pointless trios match. I'm sure he'll get his spots in & be the winner at the end (maybe?). At the very least it'll be better than Dark Angel's deal because it won't be as self-serving & ignorant to what the fans want to see.

I hope they do something nice for him whether it be a plaque or video on the screen. It'll be tough though as Friday's show has 8 matches scheduled so there will be rush jobs.

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Anyone got some good Fuerza Guerrera recommendations? I was watching a random trios match for someone else and Fuerza wound up stealing the show.

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The real answer is "anything." That's basically what he does. You can find him in very technically sound title matches and see how good he really was, but that kind of defeats the point of him.

I say watch this though.

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Thanks. That's actually the match I watched originally that led me to asking the question! I found a couple more and a few singles matches with Octagon to check out later.

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You may have seen this already but this is the earliest Fuerza footage out there and it's an awesome match:

 

 

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