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Raw 12-30-13


MGFanJay

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The potential for the pay off being awesome is there.

 

But we've been burnt by Vince's whimsy way too many times to think this'll be any different.

This.

Gregg, you asked for worst-case scenarios. You got them, and in response you're just arguing that they won't happen, that something better will. Yeah, maybe. And maybe not.

Believe me, I'd rather live in your sunny, optimistic world, but I don't think that's the likely outcome.

 

 

No. I'm arguing that they're telling a story that they'll finish. It might not be the finish to the story everyone wants. But they're telling something. People say this will end up w/ Bryan vs. The Miz or what have you. No it won't. Or they're saying the Bryan/Authority storyline is over. No it's not, since the whole reason Bryan joined The Wyatt Family is because Bray convinced him he can't beat them by himself and he's better off fighting alongside Bray then having Bray and his monsters continue to pummel him.

Everyone talks about the failure of The Nexus storyline. Well, what failure is that, exactly? The Nexus came and invaded. Cena led Team WWE to fend them off in a very good and heated SummerSlam match. Wade then shifted tasks to humiliate Cena, which he did when Cena was forced to join. Cena did Wade's dirty work for a few months. Wade then got cocky and wanted to have Cena raise his hand as champion as opposed to just merely winning the belt. He fired Cena. Wade's strategy then came back to bite him in the ass because Cena was punishing Wade's lackeys to the point where they turned on him since the Nexus was no longer about the collective but about Wade's aims and goals and they were being put through car windshields because of it. Cena then got a one on one shot against Wade and buried him under a sea of chairs.

Some of the details of that story could have been a little tighter -- the whole "you'll be gone from the WWE" part could have been done better, obviously. But that was a story told from start-to-finish.

The initial Summer of Punk stuff got too complex for their own good and could have been simpler. But Punk's arc was complete. He went after Cena because he thought he was the best. He won the belt. He then held on to it for a long time but was jealous of Cena's popularity and ended up with Heyman in his ear steering his career. Cena finally -- after Punk went on a historic title reign -- got his comeuppance against Punk on Raw in January in one of the best matches of the year.

Story complete.

 

Or what about Punk/Heyman? The reason why alliances like Punk/Heyman are formed are for the inevitable break-up. Punk wanted to a different route and Heyman got jealous. It took Punk months to finally get his hands on Heyman.  Punk went through wars to do so, including an epic against Brock, and finally was able to do so. Story told, start-to-finish.

Yes, the Invasion angle was completely botched. That was, what, over ten years ago at this point?

How many stories have they finished start-to-bottom since then? They ran a story for FOUR YEARS with The Undertaker taking on Shawn Michaels in two matches and HHH in two matches that ended with UT essentially having to beat both men to keep The Streak alive.

Just this whole stuff with Vince changing tasks doesn't add up to me. Are there some stories better told than others? Yes. Of course. But to automatically say these stories fail or what have you just isn't there.

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I think it's hysterical that so many people think Bryan is somehow going to lose his heat/kill his credibility etc etc.. over this new angle.  The dude just kicked out of a fucking TOP ROPE POWERBOMB.

And by kicking out of it so quickly, it rendered the spot meaningless.

 

 

That's pretty much exactly what I said in the first paragraph, but it doesn't change my point in the second one.  He consistently takes the biggest bumps AND kicks out of those bumps.  He is allowed to kick out of stuff that you wouldn't even expect Super Cena to kick out of.  That's absurd to me.  It's the most obvious vote of confidence from the company.  

 

The list of guys who get to do that sort of thing is really, really short.  

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It was a middle rope power bomb.

 

Just saying.

Yeah, it isn't like he kicked out at one either. I didn't see anything wrong with the kick out, top rope suplexs get kicked out of all the time and I think they looked way more dangerous.

 

 

YAY!  Someone stepping up to the plate! 

 

There is a difference between kicking out of a superplex and kicking out of a top rope version of THE FINISHER OF YOUR RETURNING STAR.  That in and of itself is crazy.  No one uses a fucking powerbomb for years and now Cena and Harper are busting out the sit down version two weeks before Batista comes back.

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Bryan and Harper never should have done that spot but that's not the worst thing I've ever seen on WWE tv.

 

I remember at Summerslam 2010 Cena took a DDT on the exposed concrete floor, made it back in the ring before a 10 count AND beat 2 guys clean in the middle of the ring.  

 

That's a little more egregious.

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I was hoping there would be multiple pages discussing that spot.  This board is all about killing the Davey Richards of the world over stuff like that.  ARE WE JUST GOING TO IGNORE IT?  WILL NO ONE DEFEND IT?

Also: It's not like he got straight up and hit him with the running knee.

YAY! Someone stepping up to the plate!

There is a difference between kicking out of a superplex and kicking out of a top rope version of THE FINISHER OF YOUR RETURNING STAR. That in and of itself is crazy. No one uses a fucking powerbomb for years and now Cena and Harper are busting out the sit down version two weeks before Batista comes back.

So when Batista hits Bryan with it 3 minutes into the match and pins him clean, it'll bury Bryan AND Harper...

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The spot itself would have been an awesome end to the match or a 10-count spot or anything else, really.  It's on Harper as much as Bryan because I don't even mind the kick out, but you can't go straight into the cover after a spot like that.  Lay around or something, christ.

 

I really just want someone who throws around the "Doing it in a gym isn't the same as doing it at WM" card to chime in.  They wasted that spot on the first leg of a gauntlet match.

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I will be curious when Vince shows up, on what I now predict to be the post-Royal Rumble Raw, to see how everything goes from there. When Vince shows up and we begin the Road to Wrestlemania, I'll be able to fully judge how this is playing out. Brock gunning for the title holder and Bryan potentially joining the Wyatts while The Authority's boys The Shield begin to tear apart could be exciting. Could be.

 

But seriously, if Summer of Punk was too complicated for them, then this could be too. Nexus played out poorly, no matter what angle you want to view it from. Barrett could have been made a star beating Cena at SummerSlam, instead of a three minute comedy spot on Raw. Beyond him The Nexus has left us with what, Darren Young? The repackaged Ryback? Justin Gabriel, Main Event superstar? Bryan is lucky he didn't get stuck in with The Nexus, he escaped the stink of it all getting fired. It should have been bigger after that initial attack on Cena and Punk. Instead we ended up with The Corre and The New Nexus.

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One really cool thing about these next few weeks is the potential to see Bryan play a non-underdog role.  He is built to be the underdog, but I've always considered ultra-violent, tie-choking, i'm way too fucking good Bryan to be the best.  It's the one thing I miss about Danielson that his current run with the WWE hasn't been able to replicate.

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YAY!  Someone stepping up to the plate! 

 

There is a difference between kicking out of a superplex and kicking out of a top rope version of THE FINISHER OF YOUR RETURNING STAR.  That in and of itself is crazy.  No one uses a fucking powerbomb for years and now Cena and Harper are busting out the sit down version two weeks before Batista comes back.

Meh, the last thing on my mind was Batista after that spot & until you wrote it, so he will be fine.... And it was the middle turnbuckle....
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I was hoping there would be multiple pages discussing that spot.  This board is all about killing the Davey Richards of the world over stuff like that.  ARE WE JUST GOING TO IGNORE IT?  WILL NO ONE DEFEND IT?

Also: It's not like he got straight up and hit him with the running knee.

YAY! Someone stepping up to the plate!

There is a difference between kicking out of a superplex and kicking out of a top rope version of THE FINISHER OF YOUR RETURNING STAR. That in and of itself is crazy. No one uses a fucking powerbomb for years and now Cena and Harper are busting out the sit down version two weeks before Batista comes back.

So when Batista hits Bryan with it 3 minutes into the match and pins him clean, it'll bury Bryan AND Harper...

 

No it won't. It's Batista's finisher. He executes it far better than anybody else, and has done it for years and years. Even when he was on a break he spent his time powerbombing strangers, just to keep from going rusty.

 

Or alternatively, the chances of most people remembering this even happened by the time Bryan vs Batista happens are quite small,, it was one spot on the last Raw of the year, hardly the hugest event ever.

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Or alternatively, the chances of most people remembering this even happened by the time Bryan vs Batista happens are quite small,, it was one spot on the last Raw of the year, hardly the hugest event ever.

 

 

Exactly!  I'm 100% sure we are on different sides of this debate, but... EXACTLY.

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No it won't. It's Batista's finisher. He executes it far better than anybody else, and has done it for years and years. Even when he was on a break he spent his time powerbombing strangers, just to keep from going rusty.

I'd almost rather see the video of that than any match Batista could have.

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For those that hate this angle, what's the worst case scenario you see unfolding? And please put up a realistic answer.

Bryan becomes the Wyatt family's whipping boy, the audience begs for him to turn back, the wait and see bunch creams themselves in anticipation for a turn that only comes after Bryan has lost his heat, and when it finally does, and the crowd doesn't give a shit, you'll be telling us all "SEE? SEE? YOU JUST HAD TO WAIT!" at which point Bryan goes off and has a feud with Miz or something.

When has Bryan lost his heat in the past?

 

 

He's been losing his heat since the day after Summerslam.

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Or alternatively, the chances of most people remembering this even happened by the time Bryan vs Batista happens are quite small,, it was one spot on the last Raw of the year, hardly the hugest event ever.

 

 

Exactly!  I'm 100% sure we are on different sides of this debate, but... EXACTLY.

 

I totally understand that view point. I'm not really on any side to be honest, except that I don't think this will end up "burying" Bryan or Harper come Batista powerbombing Bryan & him not getting up from it.

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I was hoping there would be multiple pages discussing that spot.  This board is all about killing the Davey Richards of the world over stuff like that.  ARE WE JUST GOING TO IGNORE IT?  WILL NO ONE DEFEND IT?

 

I still think the power bomb vs Cena should have ended Rollins. I haven't seen this other match yet. It's possible it made sense in the context of the match though. WWE really needs to have matches end with something other than finishers now and again.

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I was hoping there would be multiple pages discussing that spot.  This board is all about killing the Davey Richards of the world over stuff like that.  ARE WE JUST GOING TO IGNORE IT?  WILL NO ONE DEFEND IT?

 

I still think the power bomb vs Cena should have ended Rollins. I haven't seen this other match yet. It's possible it made sense in the context of the match though. WWE really needs to have matches end with something other than finishers now and again.

 

 

I would like your opinion on that spot when you get around to watching it.  It really brought me out of it.

 

Totally agree on the Cena/Rollins stuff.  That would have been the perfect ending.

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I agree that Harper should have delayed the cover, but it really wasn't as bad as you want it to be. He took a non-finisher (as in, not his opponent's finisher) from the middle rope and kicked out at two and a half. He didn't get his head caved in, didn't take it on a chair or concrete, and didn't pop up and hit three more moves immediately before selling. It was a huge near-fall designed to put over how DB Never Gives Up so that it had more impact when he Gave Up at the end.

 

Also, Barrett sounds more like Lemmy Kilmeister every week. Maybe he's trying to subliminally suck up to HHH.

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Oh so Bryan is going to be facing miz on superstars every week? I thought we were going to get realistic answers...

You've described everyone who has criticized the booking as "not happy until Bryan wins the world championship and beats everyone for a year", and you couldn't even summarize a worst-case scenario post without exaggerating. Your grasp on what is and is not realistic is questionable.

 

 

 

Okay, so if I'm as far off as you claim... then please tell me what would make Bryan..lets call them "fanboys"...happy? He just took up a fucking hour of time to end RAW in what is a clear main or semi-main event angle. He's still referencing "the machine" aka The Authority and/or John Cena. What the hell else do you want? He's as close to being Cena as anyone else..  Who in the company is better off than Bryan right now outside of Cena?  MAYBE Punk...? Who else?

 

I'm a huge Bryan fan and I love the start to this angle with the Wyatts. I'm not the least bit concerned.

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