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Purotopia Catch-All Thread 2014


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The Desperado Jr.'s match wasn't good. He throws the weakest superkick ever, but his finisher is pretty brutal.

 

What on Earth... did you SEE his fucking dive?? He went into the third row and nearly killed some tiny lady. In his mind, he's still in Mexico. He's awesome in that match. His superkick was fine. You have bad opinions. Etc.

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The Desperado Jr.'s match wasn't good. He throws the weakest superkick ever, but his finisher is pretty brutal.

 

What on Earth... did you SEE his fucking dive?? He went into the third row and nearly killed some tiny lady. In his mind, he's still in Mexico. He's awesome in that match. His superkick was fine. You have bad opinions. Etc.

 

 

Yea I dunno if we will see that as part of his moveset again but it sure was entertaining.  I thought it was a solid debut for him, actually wish he didn't already have a title shot as that greatly increases the chances of him being cut off before he can really even get running.  Here is the dive for those that don't want to download the match:

 

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The Desperado Jr.'s match wasn't good. He throws the weakest superkick ever, but his finisher is pretty brutal.

 

What on Earth... did you SEE his fucking dive?? He went into the third row and nearly killed some tiny lady. In his mind, he's still in Mexico. He's awesome in that match. His superkick was fine. You have bad opinions. Etc.

Yeah, because being able to do a cute tope con giro makes you awesome and stuff. Tell that to several hundred US indy and Dragon Gate guys who/have pull off that exact same spot etc.
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Should save it for shows where he can do that to an area where there's no crowd.

 

So an All Japan show?

 

More like the entryway if there's no threat of tripping over ramps and such on impact and nearly dying in the process.

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The Desperado Jr.'s match wasn't good. He throws the weakest superkick ever, but his finisher is pretty brutal.

 

What on Earth... did you SEE his fucking dive?? He went into the third row and nearly killed some tiny lady. In his mind, he's still in Mexico. He's awesome in that match. His superkick was fine. You have bad opinions. Etc.

Yeah, because being able to do a cute tope con giro makes you awesome and stuff. Tell that to several hundred US indy and Dragon Gate guys who/have pull off that exact same spot etc.

 

What exactly is it that you're expecting to see in a midcard juniors tag? He hit a gigantic highspot with perfect timing to pop the crowd. He stooged around and played his role, something a lot of people in New Japan have a lot of trouble with. That split spot was great, all his bumping was quick and intense, and it built to the title match fairly well.

 

And his superkick was fine. And don't say it's "cute". And so on.

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What exactly is it that you're expecting to see in a midcard juniors tag?

Now do you guys see why I would like to see a new J Crown?  The Jr. division has gone from some of the best workers in the world putting on great matches to us being fine with the Jr. division to be a showcase for flippy spots to fill time on the midcard.  I understand that combining the divisions across Japan will never happen, but the entire Jr. division across the entire country needs to be revamped and renewed somehow or it's going to fade away.

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I thought the story went that Liger wanted to put the J-Crown on Hayabusa but Busa told the press he was no longer wrestling as a Junior, thus killing Liger's plan for the Tokyo Dome.

 

James

 

No, Hayabusa was just never going to leave FMW. It was engrained in his brain that FMW was his home and he would never leave it.

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Again... A J Crown will do nothing to better the Junior division. Dragon gate is probably the best thing going in Jr wrestling, he'll puroresu period. Watch that & imagine the Open the Dream Gate title as the new J Crown.

Another J Crown is not really my point, doing something to breath life in a dying division is my point.  I just wish they didn't treat it like such an afterthought these days.  Any suggestions on where to start with Dragongate?  I've seen some, but it seems to be harder to find than NJPW and NOAH, so I never really got into it.

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Sayama/Solar was supposed to happen today, but Tiger mask re-injured himself somehow and they changed it to Solar/Hamada vs Nosawa/Mazada. Make of this what you will. I believe it would have been a rematch from over 30 years ago.

 

Edit Correction, show happened yesterday, 1890 showed up.

 

140113_legend_pict09.jpg

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Taking into account what rzombie mentioned about not wanting to take other company's talent (which is still true today for a variety of other reasons), instead of thinking NJ should sign talent from elsewhere to make the junior division better you should be thinking NJ must be trying to make the junior division better seeing as they've already signed so much talent from elsewhere.

 

The only Japanese heavyweights on their roster not of New Japan stock are job boys Honma (?) and Tomohiro Ishii, with Ishii being a Choshu guy so he's more like an adopted cousin. Compare that to their junior division - Jado, Gedo, Tiger Mask, Devitt, BUSHI, KUSHIDA, Taichi, TAKA, Ibushi. Obviously this is mainly because they haven't produced much junior talent of note in recent years, but add in the billion foreigners they regularly use and they already have an ensemble that's far more J-Cup than the default Taguchi Versus The World puro booking route. Ibushi/Devitt is getting a bit samey, but like Okada/Tanahashi they've been exchanging titles because they're shit hot, not because there's no one else.

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I think it also has a lot to do with heavyweights getting smaller too.  Tanahashi and Nakamura aren't exactly giants, andthey have been at the top of the NJPW card for the last few years. Kenta and Marufuji have put on as much muscle as possible to be considered legit heavyweights.  Other than Morishima the days of Japanese heavyweights who weight 260+ seem to be out the window.  

 

To Salads point of NJPW's Jr. division being pretty good, I would agree except none of those guys seem to ever get any legit pushes except for Devitt, Ibushi, and to a much lesser extent Taguchi.  Of the group that you named Jado, Gedo, Tiger Mask could go away today and no one would complain, Devitt held the belt for a year and never really defended it.  Does BUSHI even work there any more? KUSHIDA, Taichi, and TAKA have been used mostly for tags, which is fine, but I think it's about time KUSHIDA gets a singles push.  I hope the signing of Ibushi turns out to be good for the division, and not just a guy there to hold the belt while wrestling heavyweights.  I got into puroresu because of the Jr. division and maybe I'm sentimental, but I'd like to see it get back to its former glory. 

 

Did anyone have any Dragongate recommendations, and where is the best place to watch Dragongate matches for the cheapest price?

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The Desperado Jr.'s match wasn't good. He throws the weakest superkick ever, but his finisher is pretty brutal.

 

What on Earth... did you SEE his fucking dive?? He went into the third row and nearly killed some tiny lady. In his mind, he's still in Mexico. He's awesome in that match. His superkick was fine. You have bad opinions. Etc.

Yeah, because being able to do a cute tope con giro makes you awesome and stuff. Tell that to several hundred US indy and Dragon Gate guys who/have pull off that exact same spot etc.

 

What exactly is it that you're expecting to see in a midcard juniors tag? He hit a gigantic highspot with perfect timing to pop the crowd. He stooged around and played his role, something a lot of people in New Japan have a lot of trouble with. That split spot was great, all his bumping was quick and intense, and it built to the title match fairly well.

 

And his superkick was fine. And don't say it's "cute". And so on.

 

Isn't El Desperado supposed to be a heel? At least that's what I gained from him. If so, the tope con giro wasn't exactly necessary. He should leave those crowd popping high flying spots to Ibushi.

 

There's quite a ton he could learn about how to work a match without having to bust out spots like the tope con giro from El Samurai.

 

And that superkick was ridiculously weak, but I'm not going to argue with you over that. It's pointless. He can learn a thing or 2 from Shinjiro Ohtani though about how a Jr. should throw flashy strikes.

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To Salads point of NJPW's Jr. division being pretty good

 

Quick clarification - I don't know whether it's good or not. I was countering the idea that it was an afterthought because it looks to me like they've invested an uncharacteristic amount trying to keep things lively.

 

Clearly the solution is to push Taichi.

 

Is Taichi still going to be around NJ this year? I've seen people infer from Taka leaving that Taichi would be going with him, but I haven't seen that confirmed.

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A good amount of Japanese heavies have been bulked-up juniors. People seem to forget that guys like Misawa, Kawada and Fujinami were bulked up juniors that went up to play with the heavies. This isn't exactly a new thing in Japan.

Very true, but it makes it a pretty easy decision to move up and become a heavyweight when the biggest star in the country over the last few years might weigh 230 lbs.  Tanahashi, Kenta, and Nakamura are three of the best "heavyweight" wrestlers in Japan and I don't think any of them would have been looked at as credible heavyweights in the 90s.  Misawa and Kawada started off as juniors, but ended up pretty big, the current generation haven't really blown up as much as those guys.  I'm fine with guys like Tanahashi and Nakamura being top heavyweight stars, I just wish there was a crop of Jrs. like Liger, Ohtani, and Kanemoto to hold down the lower weight class. 

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This is something that doesn't come up a lot, but how much does Japanese wrestlers make for each match?

Seeing all the NOAH and Dragon Gate guys appear in ROH in 2005 regularly and all the Joshi wrestlers working in CHIKARA, Mayumi Ozaki doing death matches in the US and Sumie Sakai working in CZW, I'm guessing they're not making that much.

How much would a big name like Jun Akiyama be making? How about a lesser ranked guy like Mohammed Yone? A Joshi veteran like Aja Kong? An indy wrestler like HARASHIMA?

I know this is none of my business, but since MMA fighter salaries are usually made available and some WWE guys and US indy guys have talked about how much they make for appearance, I wonder how much a Japanese wrestler makes.

I know the JMMA fighters don't make that much as Ryuto Sawada works part time at a noodle restaurant, but he's still relatively new and I've read about fighters like Shinya Aoki and Tatsuya Kawajiri saying they thought about retiring from MMA because they couldn't sustain themselves on fighting alone until PRIDE signed them. I know ONE FC now pays Aoki more than the UFC was offering to pay him and that's why he's turned them down on various occasions and Kawajiri recently signed with the UFC so I'm sure he's getting paid well too.

I know they don't make a fortune since they have to go and open noodle and other Japanese food restaurants to sustain themselves.

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